Pricing Tips & Info for new breeders

[Khea Karas]

I often hear people completely lost when it comes to pricing their cats. Many will undervalue their cats, or overvaluing a cat that may not be worth that much.

When I made the KittyCats Price Check group I was hoping that by getting the community talking and sharing knowledge about prices, it would help to give people a better understanding about their cats' worth, and give the secondary market a better chance to remain strong.

I still see many newer breeders struggle when it comes to setting their first cats out for sale so I have written a quick info card about how to go about this and attempted to give a general estimation for basic cats.

Now these estimates are in no means set in concrete and are obviously a wide generalization of prices, as each cat is unique and therefore may fall outside these prices. I did not write this for people to look at and say "Ok my cat is 3 traits so only worth what it says here", rather it is a starting point for anyone who is newer and unsure when it comes to selling. Remember to always ask if you are uncertain before setting any cat for sale.

Anyway hope it helps those who are completely in the dark and all feedback appreciated

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QyfY...IxOb8/edit

[Tad Carlucci]

Two rules:

1) if it sold, the price was too low. The quicker it sells, the too-lower the price.

2) if it did not sell, the price was too high. The slower it sells, the too-higher the price.

Somewhere between those two extremes is where you want to be. There are note cards I've seen which help pin the tail on the donkey for starting points. But they're guesses .. educated guesses, but guesses nonetheless.

War story: decades ago I wrote a set of programs for this new-fangled computer called the IBM PC running a bare-bones operating system called MS-DOS. My partner and I decided to see if we could sell 'em. They weren't much and so we put 'em out for "free, pay $2 for shipping and handling." We sold a bunch. So my partner tried to maximize profit and tried "free, pay $5 for shipping" .. no sales to speak of. After a few more goes at it I was able to determine that "free, pay $3" was the correct price. Sales were actually higher than at the $2 price! What was happening? Well, at the $2 price we were losing sales because people worried that low price indicated the software was even that good. At the $5 price they worried that it was not good enough. The $3 price was very close to the balance point where risk and perceived value met so both sales and profit maximized. This worked fine for a few months. Then someone else came out with more/better programs doing the same thing. One would expect we'd have to lower our prices to stay competitive. Actually, after more testing, we found we had to RAISE them to $10 and, as that silly, cheap computer became more and more popular, we had to KEEP RAISING them! That lasted until that simple, bare-bones operating system was replaced and our programs were no longer needed.

Moral of the story: If you're there first, you're creating the market. Competition can actually make the market larger, making your job easier. But every gravy train eventually ends. At some point either the market saturates, or conditions change, and it's time to move on.

[Khea Karas]

(04-11-2012 06:18 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  There are note cards I've seen which help pin the tail on the donkey for starting points. But they're guesses .. educated guesses, but guesses nonetheless.

The only notecard I know of is the one I actually wrote which contains this exact info. If you know of another please send me inworld because Im curious to compare. Thanks Tad for the info!

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(04-11-2012 06:18 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  Two rules:

1) if it sold, the price was too low. The quicker it sells, the too-lower the price.

2) if it did not sell, the price was too high. The slower it sells, the too-higher the price.

I do not completely agree with this rule eventhough in general it seems a good general guideline.
I think we should take a couple of other thing in consideration as well such as the end of the month is playing part and if for example a special is just released or if we are in the summer or winter season or in the expensive Christmas season.
Also the way kitties are displayed people often buy with the eye
I was a SL merchant since 2007 and it is highly unpredictable how customers behave when it comes to buying but I know there is so much more involved than the price of a product alone.
I prefer to set a price I want for a cat and most of the time this leads to a sale and if it does not it goes to menagerie in 10-14 days.
I have noticed fluctuations in people buying or not are related to other influences than prices alone.
Since the economic crisis SL merchants paniced and participated in mega hunts 50L events and what not to attract customers.
This gave them quick sales and quick results but since these products were normally of high quality this did bite in it's own tail and was just instand sales at too high costs.
We should not want this for KittyCatS what ever KittyCatS really from a complete genesis to a 2T or a 9T there must be a standard.
I believe we need to find an absolute minimum to sell a reasonale cat and don't go any lower regardless the fact if it sells in a certain period of time.
In the end anticipating to much with sales or no sales and change prices based on that will damage the market.
If the market is slow a general advice might be to keep the kittens boxed and don't sell hips but a few good cats with pedigree signs.
This helps taking away the pressure of feeding too many kitties on a slow market.
I believe Khea tried to stimulate a healthy market by making this guideline notecard and creating a price check group.

[Tad Carlucci]

As I read your comments, it looks like your disagreement agrees with my point.

Khea's efforts certainly help. The more/better information we have, not on what the asking price was, but on what the agreed sales price was, the better time all of us, newbie and old hat, will have finding reasonable asking prices.

[Ethereal Hurricane]

The best thing a new breeder can do, would be take it slow, almost glacier like. The worst thing you can do as a new breeder would jump in head first. I firmly believe that auctions are the worst place to judge the actual values of a cat, but I always tell newer breeders that I have met to just sit at as many auctions as you can. Not only do you get a general idea of what sells, you usually get a handful of knowledge here and there, as *most* auctioneers are experienced breeders themselves.

As for actual pricing, there is no real easy way to "know" what the value of a cat is, as its not about what its worth to you, but what its worth to someone else. What are they willing to pay, not what are you willing to sell it for. Again, I'll state that auctions are the worst for actually understanding the market, as I've had cats that I had opening bids on set at 5k, and went no sale, only to turn around and sell it in private sale for three times that amount. You're not guaranteed to have every potential buyer at every single auction. Auctioning is probably the easiest way to sell a cat, hassle free, and it can be really rewarding, or very discouraging. My advice on selling at auctions, just do open bids (no starting bid), and see what you get. You might be surprised.

Experience will teach you what to do to get people to your auction, spamming the various groups, posting here on the forums (probably the most undervalued resource in the kittycats community), or just IMing people that you know might be looking for a cat. When I first started, I went to almost every single auction I could make it to. I bought some cats here and there, but I mostly went there to listen and learn. I've even started to see lots of auctioneers hosting classes on breeding, I wish they had those when I started!

I guess my final thought for a new breeder, get to know people, and again, auctions help with that. Interact with the community. Make friends, heck, make enemies! Just get to know people! There are lots of great people in this community, and *most* of them are extremely helpful and knowledgeable.

[Sanura Snowpaw]

OMG this was so handy today when I did the update and had to reprice EVERYTHING!! It gave me this simple idea as to where I could price things without taking HOURS.

[Malicia Python]

I think one of the main misconceptions in the Kitty market is that a lower price will lead to a sale in any case. But I am sure there isnt a buyer for every cat that is born and put for sale. The supply exceeded the demand loooong ago. As in every SL and RL biz, you need something ppl reall want to make them cough up their L$. You wont take crap, even if it is free or 1L, right?

So the first question is now how much a cat will go for but "will this sell at all?" Most auctions have some standards a cat has to meet to be accepted. I take this is a rough guideline to decide. Or just ask yourself, would I buy this cat? If you are honest, in most cases you wont, because those you would buy, go into your breeding

Khea's guideline is a great start for the sellers not to underbid each other by mistake, but there will always be sellers who just are after the quick profit or ppl desperate enough to have fire sales (though I really doubt the wits of those selling boxes for under 20L) This price limbo sets new benchmarks, though. But hey - it is a free market XD

[Tad Carlucci]

I don't sell but I do watch Charm's behavior.

What would be nice would be to see auctioneers putting up listings of cat details and the price, or if it did not sell. Even better would be if the auctioneers had a central repository where that information could be found, and historical postings retrieved. Think of it as a cat ticker-tape.

For fairness, some events would also need to be shown. For example, last week's asset server problems (the day of the upgrade) caused most cats at an auction I monitored to go "no sale". So, considering any report of all those no-sale offerings would want to be tempered with that knowledge.

This would provide an idea about what is popular, what sells, and what does not, and the prices they seem to be going for. It could alleviate some of the complaints about crashing prices, and will probably lead to more price stability since potential purchasers would arrive armed with an expectation of prices being in a general range.

What I'm suggesting is a form of auctioneer consortia. While the idea of a price ticker tape is the basis, other features could be added. For example, it could also provide such things as tips and guidelines for new auctioneers, an auctioneer-only discussion area, an Angie's List-type feedback area and, of course, a calendar of upcoming events. Some of this probably already exists in one form or another, so it may simply need consolidation and marketing so everyone is aware of its existence.

[Khea Karas]

(04-23-2012 06:23 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  I don't sell but I do watch Charm's behavior.

What would be nice would be to see auctioneers putting up listings of cat details and the price, or if it did not sell. Even better would be if the auctioneers had a central repository where that information could be found, and historical postings retrieved. Think of it as a cat ticker-tape.

For fairness, some events would also need to be shown. For example, last week's asset server problems (the day of the upgrade) caused most cats at an auction I monitored to go "no sale". So, considering any report of all those no-sale offerings would want to be tempered with that knowledge.

This would provide an idea about what is popular, what sells, and what does not, and the prices they seem to be going for. It could alleviate some of the complaints about crashing prices, and will probably lead to more price stability since potential purchasers would arrive armed with an expectation of prices being in a general range.

What I'm suggesting is a form of auctioneer consortia. While the idea of a price ticker tape is the basis, other features could be added. For example, it could also provide such things as tips and guidelines for new auctioneers, an auctioneer-only discussion area, an Angie's List-type feedback area and, of course, a calendar of upcoming events. Some of this probably already exists in one form or another, so it may simply need consolidation and marketing so everyone is aware of its existence.

I like this idea alot although I think it would be complicated to implement.