I know this isn't a new topic....

[Dimpz Morane]

Lolz not angry - very bemused actually.

Again you assumed, but anyway have a nice evening.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

I fear a bit for a communistic type of market in which prices are dictated and people starting to police each other to make sure everything is equally shared.
Of course this is a virtual world but KittyCatS can be certainly a marketable product via which we can get profit but they do not have to be.

Each seller has a price scale they feel comfortable with.
I have a friend who likes to start with an open bid at auctions as she feels uncomfortable and too shy to set a price and rather has the audience decide what her cat is worth.
Those are her deep felt ethics and God knows she is stalked with just that.
Now she feels uncomfortable to sell on auctions she feels it is no fun anymore.
How is that others ruin an other's fun?!

Once I have found (not as the first) a new eye and I think I was one of the first to have a 9T with it though.
It was Ody Bellini (back then the most recessive) on a Siam Flame.
It was a gorgeous cat and I felt just under 10k would be, in the market as it was, a good value to ask.
But people felt to IM me I should ask 30k or even more... >.<

I have received so many IM's of people who thought I was undermining their business.
But I just couldn't ask more for my moral compass which obviously varies per person.
I felt so bad and sad about this I took all those cats down and sold a few on an auction.

Instead of selling my cats I shared the fun and I have given loads away.
A happy person is priceless I have to say that much I have learned.
I guess what I want to say is that people can get really uncomfortable being policed or dictated like this and what starts as a hobby becomes a headache.

Later I taught my husband how to breed and the poor man found the, back then, most recessive Grotto Eyes.
He managed to make that a 9T as well.
I know my husband is rather sensitive and I feared he would be stalked by people who would know better how he should price his kitties.

It is really not so much fun to find a new most recessive because IMs can become nasty and so undeserved.
I strongly believe it is none of anyones business what a seller asks for his/ her kitties.
We don't know their financial situation.
Maybe these people have just fun on a hobby level and do not see KittyCatS as a marketable product alone but just like to share with everyone with every budget.

We can't force our ethics upon other people that is highly rude in my opinion and a little scary too.
The OP writes also that the people who ask too little L$ for her taste should stop breeding.
I am sorry that is really the world upside down.
In the history of breedables people bred for fun only till one person thought hey, maybe I can sell my trait and that is how the hobby breeding could become a business as well.

I'd say if people see the need to harass hobby breeders (or a bit of both) maybe they should reconsider if breeding is for them.
It really makes me sad there are still people who want to dictate prices and are trying to find ways, via marketowners even, to force people to ask a set price!

P.s. This exact reason made me stop selling today and I became a hobby breeder only.
I find and create all sorts of gorgeous kitties which will never be available anymore.
Some I shoot a picture from for my showroom.
These sort of attempts to control the market can really ruin the fun of selling.
At least it did for my husband and me.

We are still hobby breeders just for us because we love it so much and we think a hobby may cost something in what ever world (kibble).

[LibGwen Resident]

Seems to me the posters in this thread are neatly paralleling the reason people keep getting into this debate: There are three kinds of pricers:

1) Those who know how they want to price their cats. They know what they want and people should not try to change their minds.

2) Those who want their cats to sell this week, so they undercut the prices they see. They know what they want and people should not try to change their minds.

3) People who would like to know what's a fair price, would especially like to develop a system, but they can't get any useful answers out of anyone. At best, the people they try to consult just give a price for one cat, giving no insight into the process. Whenever they manage to ask a group of experienced people, the group always degenerates into a fight about how nobody should be advised on their business. As this thread has. Is ignorance really bliss?

[CarlottaAdagio Resident]

(10-12-2015 12:43 AM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  I fear a bit for a communistic type of market in which prices are dictated and people starting to police each other to make sure everything is equally shared.
Of course this is a virtual world but KittyCatS can be certainly a marketable product via which we can get profit but they do not have to be.

Each seller has a price scale they feel comfortable with.
I have a friend who likes to start with an open bid at auctions as she feels uncomfortable and too shy to set a price and rather has the audience decide what her cat is worth.
Those are her deep felt ethics and God knows she is stalked with just that.
Now she feels uncomfortable to sell on auctions she feels it is no fun anymore.
How is that others ruin an other's fun?!

Once I have found (not as the first) a new eye and I think I was one of the first to have a 9T with it though.
It was Ody Bellini (back then the most recessive) on a Siam Flame.
It was a gorgeous cat and I felt just under 10k would be, in the market as it was, a good value to ask.
But people felt to IM me I should ask 30k or even more... >.<

I have received so many IM's of people who thought I was undermining their business.
But I just couldn't ask more for my moral compass which obviously varies per person.
I felt so bad and sad about this I took all those cats down and sold a few on an auction.

Instead of selling my cats I shared the fun and I have given loads away.
A happy person is priceless I have to say that much I have learned.
I guess what I want to say is that people can get really uncomfortable being policed or dictated like this and what starts as a hobby becomes a headache.

Later I taught my husband how to breed and the poor man found the, back then, most recessive Grotto Eyes.
He managed to make that a 9T as well.
I know my husband is rather sensitive and I feared he would be stalked by people who would know better how he should price his kitties.

It is really not so much fun to find a new most recessive because IMs can become nasty and so undeserved.
I strongly believe it is none of anyones business what a seller asks for his/ her kitties.
We don't know their financial situation.
Maybe these people have just fun on a hobby level and do not see KittyCatS as a marketable product alone but just like to share with everyone with every budget.

We can't force our ethics upon other people that is highly rude in my opinion and a little scary too.
The OP writes also that the people who ask too little L$ for her taste should stop breeding.
I am sorry that is really the world upside down.
In the history of breedables people bred for fun only till one person thought hey, maybe I can sell my trait and that is how the hobby breeding could become a business as well.

I'd say if people see the need to harass hobby breeders (or a bit of both) maybe they should reconsider if breeding is for them.
It really makes me sad there are still people who want to dictate prices and are trying to find ways, via marketowners even, to force people to ask a set price!

P.s. This exact reason made me stop selling today and I became a hobby breeder only.
I find and create all sorts of gorgeous kitties which will never be available anymore.
Some I shoot a picture from for my showroom.
These sort of attempts to control the market can really ruin the fun of selling.
At least it did for my husband and me.

We are still hobby breeders just for us because we love it so much and we think a hobby may cost something in what ever world (kibble).

I gave you a "thanks" for your post but felt that was not enough. So thank you so much for what you wrote, Kayleigh. You expressed my opinion exactly but put it in words so much better than I ever would be able to do.

[Senta Garnburg]

(10-10-2015 07:52 PM)doubledareme Resident Wrote:  But I just want to say this...

I understand needing to keep prices reasonable when you have a lot of cats to sell. But I take personal issue with people who are selling new and very recessive traits for 300L. If you want to breed 400 cats so you can be the first one to discover something or get the best cat before everyone else, don't make the rest of the market suffer by selling cats that should be retaining their value at 1000L or more. Some breeders are just starting to get cats as well treated as this because we don't breed 200 of the same fur. And if these people are selling them for 300L what is the point. Its just wrong in my opinion. People who over saturate the market then kill the value of the traits should be boycotted.

I understand needing to clear out kittys, and I can even understand selling lower than 300 for kittys that have been around for some time and who are not 9t or well traited. But when making money takes over your morals perhaps it is time to do something else instead of breeding kittyCats.

Menagerie them. Keep them in your Cattery for a while. You certainly don't need to destroy the market by getting rid of 50 9t new and recessive traits for 300L . Seriously?? Blue Marbles with Puff/Posh Latte Retired tails and ears??? really?

I'm all for selling off kittys that are underbred...trip mist for instance...but I dunno. My heart just sank when I came across this. It's a travesty. Utterly shameful.

Perhaps its time for Sim owners to band together and do something about this?? I honestly am at a loss for words other than I'm very very disappointed.

I for one have stopped buying 9t well traited cats for under 5 to 800 lindens and even that is a steal.

I know I've said a lot but honestly I'm baffled... just why???

WOW.

DD

Omg, here we go again. Who are you to tell people what to do?
To put it in your own words: ..."But when making money takes over your morals perhaps it is time to do something else instead of breeding kittyCats."

[Mirsoul Resident]

OK...so here is my two cents I have been in SL for a few years and have always bred kittycats. I have seen the market go up...and then go almost stagnant. Virtual worlds run parallel with the real world, as those who have extra money to dump into a game will do so, and when they don't...well then it slows down.

I love new traits, and seeing how various breeders put their traits together. However for me, I refuse to spend more than my linden balance on a pixel cat. I will never purchase linden to pay upwards of $50 (or more) real life dollars into one kittycat. Because for me, this then turns my fun into a "oh my gosh, now I need to make that money back" type of scenario. This takes the fun right out of it. Much like real life breeders (which I did for many years) that get caught up in the money aspect of the business, it is no longer fun and turns friendly competition into a cut throat business (which we see in all the breedables). The only way to avoid that, is to not get caught up in it.

So for me personally, I love KC, and will probably breed them as long as I am in SL. This is not a business for me, it is a hobby. I am happy when my cats get bid up, lets admit it is fun; and I have bid up a few that I really wanted. There will always be price gouging and price drops....I just walk away or not bid as that is a choice I make. Do I bargain shop? Sure I do, but I also have no problem paying a thousand or more linden on a kitty. I do draw the line at tapping into my real life money to pay for a kitty...that I will not do. So it comes down to personal choices, and what each of us has to spend and what we want. So for me, I price my kitties at what I would be willing to pay for those traits. Are some of them low, possibly, but it does give someone else the ability to purchase a trait that they are looking for without breaking the bank.

[Angeliclove80 Resident]

I don't think this is a thing that's EVER going to be resolved. People charge what they want for their kitties PERIOD!! As someone who has never sold a kitty in her breeding life time nor attempted to, this kind of post on forums is not really that helpful. I keep a close eye on things in KC as I still breed and one day I might ACTUALLY get around to selling one of my kitties (or at least attempt to). All this "he said", "she said", "he did", "she did" is like nursery time and from Adults, it's very said to see. So here are the facts from someone who breeds but isn't invested in selling.

Fact One: The Good Old Days of KittyCatS! where you could charge large prices for kitties HAS GONE !!! Prices on new traits bottom out quicker than the Titanic sunk.

Fact Two: No matter how many times this subject of "Pricing" is rehashed, no-one is going to agree and it really ISN'T going to affect those offending by selling cats at lower prices.

Fact Three: Supply and demand. If there wasn't anyone buying the cheaper cats, there wouldn't be a demand for them.

Fact Four: No every one in KC is rich. Some people make ZERO and run at a lose. Some people just breed for the love of breeding (that's me), some do it to break even on what they pay out on the kitties. Then you have those who make a little profit and save up to buy more expensive kitties. Then you have those who are in it for the Profit ONLY!!!.

At the end of the day, you can come on here, whines as much as you like, stir up a few hornets nests, get a few people#s back's up thinking you are talking about them but really, you think that it's going to change something ?? The long and short of it is, NO it isn't going to change so you just gotta suck it up and get on with it. Simple as.

Sorry not really done comments before and I can be a little brutal with my honesty but this isn't meant to offend anyone and if I did offend you, then sorry but at the end of it, it's true. Breed for the love of breeding, NOT to see how much money you can make out of it.

[Buum Jansma]

"I have a dream......"
Yes i agree dumping kittycats for low prices is hurting the market and also the comunity.
But ok, i know not everyone agree with me, thats your good right to have your own opinion.
Everyone is free to do whatever he-she wants to do, but how can we find a solution???
Is there a way to go both will feel fine??? i am scared there will not be a final solution, cause there will Always be people that will have a different opinion and go their own way.

I Think the USERS of kittycats will not get to a solution without the help of the CREATORS:
would it make sence when menagerie your Kitty you would get more dollars???

Who is going to pay the price for this solution????
Would people be ok to pay 5-10% more for the kittycats products to get the bill payed for the menagerie kitty's???

WARNING: Feel free to shoot me, i just buy a bullet proof suit

[Ivy Norsk]

I think to maintain clarity in the discussion it helps to Not throw issues of menagerie cats into it. The menagerie cats are at a different price point than what is being discussed regarding 300L cats undercutting auction cats.

[Buum Jansma]

right now you get only 50 menageri dollars a Kitty?
By raising it to a (much) higher level it get more atractive to take kitty's out of the market.

ps this is my last reply in this topic, don't want this to become a slow chat box