Kitty pricing!

[fabioazevedo Oh]

(05-24-2015 06:48 AM)Bumblebliss Resident Wrote:  My opinion is that whoever owns the cat, feeds the cat, breeds the cat can charge whatever they want without fear of being pressured by any group or "community." Charge what you will and enjoy your cats.

This is the opnion of most people in the community.

You're right!


FREEDOM FOR THE PRICES!


Only a small group of people comes grumble their frustrations in public. From time to time they appear here in the forum with the same subject, and your fingers pointed, accusing one responsible, trying to impose their rules for everyone, and do not respect the free trade of cats in the markets. They are just frustrated because their rules do not apply to all persons and to all markets. Those who are the owner of the market, will never be heard. So try bullying people, to make them jump out of the market.

Each time they create topics like this they just shoot themselves. Now we have the list of names of those people who do bad for the community.
The most fun is to see some new people joining this group this call: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". It will be fun to watch a snake eat the other.
Let them live happily in your World of Fantasy Premiere Market, with its king and queen!


Fortunately there are many good people, and many good secondary markets that will never judge or point a finger at you because of your prices. Even people who understand market already settled in their simm, new tables Menagerie, so that you can use and sell their kittens by 100L, 50L if you want, and no one will judge you.

Just go in the session 'KittyCatS Market / Live and Box Sales' forum here and cats promotions 50L / 100L / 200L are everywhere. Spam lots for hours, disclose their promotions 50L / 100L / 200L.


Menagerie cats unpaid rental!


If they could see the big bad they do for the community. Lots of dramas, many good people just leave the community because of this small group.

:/

But life goes on. and I have more cats to wake up!

hugs for everyone!

[Ivy Norsk]

PrettyPoizen Wrote:I agree Ivy, there is an overabundance of cats on the grid. The solutions basically come down to a choice we in the community have to make: a) The Greater good of the Community b) looking after only my little corner of it

Thats the decision that defines whether we are truly a part of the community, or just hangin on the fringe.

I disagree. Not because I am against personal responsibility, but because dealing with an overall systemic imbalance cannot be handled in this way. That *Fringe* IS the community. And it's moving the market. There are about 20,000 people engaged enough in KittyCats to be registered on this site.

Indulge me enough to tell you a story from Norse mythology.
The god Odin had bad dreams that Ragnarok was coming and that his son Baldur, the god of goodness and light was in grave peril. The mother goddess Frigga went through the worlds and asked an oath of everything, every creature, every rock, the trees, the monsters to not hurt Baldur. And the the trees and the stones and even created things, like weapons, swords and arrows all swore that they would not hurt Baldur ever. And when the oathtaking was done the gods rejoiced and made a circle around Baldur shooting and throwing things at him and laughing as all the weapons just fell at his feet. But an old woman (who was Loki) came up to Frigga and asked, "are you sure you asked Everybody?" And Frigga said, "oh no, I never asked the mistletoe; it's just so sweet." And Loki went off and made an arrow of mistletoe and handed it to the god Hod - who was blind - and helped him shoot. And Baldur fell dead.

There are a number of morals here. But one of the most fundamental is that you cannot take oaths of everybody. Viking society was based on oaths, and oath-breakers were outcast. But they understood that there are limits and in the end, oaths don't cover everyone. (There's a second part of the story that underlines that point again.)

KittyCats is a hobby for most. People get into it because they want a cute cat, or a dozen, or 40, or.... They don't get into it to take oaths about pricing. Which doesn't mean that people shouldn't fret about the markets, but oathtaking is simply not going to be the mechanism that covers the whole community.

PrettyPoizen Wrote:For myself, I do look at the breeder as much as the cat and I do not support with my Lindens those who do not support a market they expect to support them.

I am absolutely in favor of people shopping where they like and supporting their friends in breeding and making monetary decisions as they please.

PrettyPoizen Wrote:I actually made a sweatshirt (SL) that says Sheeple! Dont Drink the KoolAid! LOL ...

We're talking about 20,000 people. I suspect that no more than 200 knows what your shirt means. You talk about KoolAid, but I think people aren't drinking KoolAid, they are doing math: that 50L is higher than the 20L that they would get from menagerie. It's not the best math since it doesn't even cover the cost of the box and it's not the math that people who look to the whole market do. But it's still math and huge segments of the market do the math that way. And that is the reality that we need to work with.

[Bumblebliss Resident]

I'm always open to reading suggestions, and people on both sides have and had very good points. The market as it is works great for me. I do what I can afford, sell when and how I want and I'm quite pleased with how my little breeding programs have come along. To be honest, I do not at all consider myself a member of the community and I am no longer a member of the SL major group. I just don't feel welcome for a variety of reasons that just derail the major thrust of this thread, so I will just say that all in all I'm happy with what I'm doing and the prices that I've seen and the prices that I've gotten when I choose to sell my cats. Those that I associate with that also do their kittycats are indeed happy with what they are doing and how they sell. In fact, the majority of breeders that I personally associate with do not consider themselves members of the community but are quite happy and satisfied doing what they are doing and the market just as it is.

I only speak for myself. I don't see how any major endeavor or program would benefit smaller breeders like myself and my friends. But I'm always interested in learning others' opinions.

[Oselkhandro Resident]

It would certainly benefit a lot of people if the supply of kitties were reduced. It would even, I suspect, benefit the KC creators/marketers (such as Callie), because people might still feel incentivized to breed, if only to get boxes for the Menagerie. I continue to support Ivy's plan, especially if the LEs do not require thousands of Menagerie boxes. Reducing the supply would stabilize the market, and might even reignite interest in some of the pretty, but older, traits.

I am very new to KC, and I do not even place kittens for sale (yet), but I already have over 600 boxes! Even though I am not a big breeder, I DO read the forums, because I am trying to learn everything that I can. Breeding, for me, is a challenging hobby at the moment, since I just retired from academia. Someday I hope to sell some of my better kittens, but in the meantime, it might make sense to Menagerie the low traited boxes.

This thread has given me a lot of good information to digest, and I appreciate the open discourse in the KittyCatS community. Cheers to you all!

[Ivy Norsk]

Bumblebliss Wrote:I don't see how any major endeavor or program would benefit smaller breeders like myself and my friends.

I think it ultimately would, just because an overall reduction in cats would help tighten the pricing, and also, frankly, make it easier to shop. However, we do not currently have a major endeavor or program, and in the meantime, PrettyPoizen is right that it comes down to each individual: the only thing we can control is how we price our own kitties.

[TerrorMisu Resident]

(05-27-2015 07:55 AM)fabioazevedo Oh Wrote:  

(05-24-2015 06:48 AM)Bumblebliss Resident Wrote:  My opinion is that whoever owns the cat, feeds the cat, breeds the cat can charge whatever they want without fear of being pressured by any group or "community." Charge what you will and enjoy your cats.

This is the opnion of most people in the community.

You're right!


FREEDOM FOR THE PRICES!


Only a small group of people comes grumble their frustrations in public. From time to time they appear here in the forum with the same subject, and your fingers pointed, accusing one responsible, trying to impose their rules for everyone, and do not respect the free trade of cats in the markets. They are just frustrated because their rules do not apply to all persons and to all markets. Those who are the owner of the market, will never be heard. So try bullying people, to make them jump out of the market.

Each time they create topics like this they just shoot themselves. Now we have the list of names of those people who do bad for the community.
The most fun is to see some new people joining this group this call: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". It will be fun to watch a snake eat the other.
Let them live happily in your World of Fantasy Premiere Market, with its king and queen!


Fortunately there are many good people, and many good secondary markets that will never judge or point a finger at you because of your prices. Even people who understand market already settled in their simm, new tables Menagerie, so that you can use and sell their kittens by 100L, 50L if you want, and no one will judge you.

Just go in the session 'KittyCatS Market / Live and Box Sales' forum here and cats promotions 50L / 100L / 200L are everywhere. Spam lots for hours, disclose their promotions 50L / 100L / 200L.


Menagerie cats unpaid rental!


If they could see the big bad they do for the community. Lots of dramas, many good people just leave the community because of this small group.

:/

But life goes on. and I have more cats to wake up!

hugs for everyone!

Plays the violin!

[SweetSinz Resident]

Its good to have an open discussion about this, and the purpose is not to scare off anyone or control the free market of our adorable kitties. But the principle of free market balance is not just "a thing is worth what someone will pay". Its closer to the balance point between what the seller will sell for and the buyer will pay.

The fact is that it costs lindens to raise kittycats, and some are just attempting to educate others so that if they chose to sell at a loss they do so with full awareness. That action hurts the seller and hurts the market, but it is still their choice.

We all do our best to help each other and ourselves, and this is just an example of that. I don't ask that everyone's breeding ethics be the same as mine, but I do ask that they consider ethics when they breed. If I think they are missing that, I don't purchase cats from them or recommend them to others.

That said, I have probably purchased a beauty from everyone who posted here, and respect you all for your efforts. We all need to take constructive criticism from our community if we consider ourselves professionals. Professionals get paid for what they do, by definition. Undercutting the market drives other serious breeders out of business, and is always unethical in my opinion. Key words....my opinion.

Thank you for the forum and the open conversation. Lets not be afraid of discussing the hard things. It can't all be about how gorgeous my new aussie blue marble is....lol

[yourbestboy69 Resident]

(05-28-2015 10:19 AM)SweetSinz Resident Wrote:  Undercutting the market drives other serious breeders out of business, and is always unethical in my opinion.

Seriously? Weren't you the same one offering "Pawnshop Prices" for jewels?
http://kittycats.biz/forum/showthread.php?tid=21480

Funny how someone advocating that sellers use "ethical" pricing so that they make a tidy profit is offering such disrespectful amounts when buying. I guess it's all just business to you.

I tried using your model to get 25L boxes for a tiger for my Goddess, but it didn't really work. I'm glad.

[SweetSinz Resident]

Seriously? Weren't you the same one offering "Pawnshop Prices" for jewels?
http://kittycats.biz/forum/showthread.php?tid=21480

Yes that was/is me. I had to stop the offer since I can't afford to buy all the jewels offered to me at that price, sadly. I set those prices based on what jewels were going for on a major kitty cat sim at auction. That's partly how I know if my prices are in line with the market or not.

That's my logic, should you agree with it or not. Please explain how this has hurt the market if you think it has.

Ms. Sweet

[Devilness Chant]

I cringed when I saw this thread dragged up from the depths where it should have stayed.

I wish this forum had two filters. One for any thread that has the word PRICING or any similar word. And posts done in CAPS or HUGE lettering.

The topic of pricing has always brought out the worst in some ppl on both sides of the controversy.

The most constructive idea voiced in this thread, I believe, was Ivy's idea to create a limited edition managery kitty that didn't cost 200 to 300 boxes to get.

When the tigers came out, the only ones that could get them were the ppl that had thousands of boxes to burn or had the lindens to buy them. It really didn't solve the over abundance of boxes in the market.

Maybe if there were at least one LE for less boxes it would be more attainable to those that don't have thousands of boxes but would be willing to clear some off their shelves to get them.

This would be a great topic for a standing thread and let the pricing one sink back to the depths where it belongs, before the slandering gets too out of hand.