Easter Cats

[Nynaveve Wirefly]

(03-19-2012 08:39 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  Now, about people saying that this hurts the community? What hurts the community is people bringing the lowest tier 9t cats and expecting people to buy them for extreme amounts. I'm sorry, but 9t doesn't really mean as much as it used to. I don't really like going to auctions anymore because I see the most boring cats. Again, not trying to offend anyone, but 1 year old furs aren't going to sell for more than 100-300 lindens generally, and 9t cats with curious everything isn't going to sell for much (TYPICALLY) either. Anyone now a days can buy 2 cats at auction, mash them together, and get a 9t cat. However, these days it matters more what the traits are. I'm not trying to insult anyone's hard work, but you need to get with the current state of the market if you're trying to do anything more than breed what YOU want. If you're complaining that you don't have money to buy things, maybe you should try actually making a line of cats that will sell, or invest in some higher priced cats, breed them out, and make a profit. Again, if you're just here to have fun, great, don't complain then, that you have no money, that isn't anyone's fault but your own.

TL;DR:
1. Special release cats aren't designed for everyone to be able to afford, don't try to if you cannot. This is not Pokémon, you do not need to catch'em all.
2. Step-up your KittyCatS skillz, invest or breed better cats, get money, ????, profit!

Ethereal,

What you view as great 9T cat and what I view as a great 9T cat may very well be two different things. So you really have no place to say what is "good" and what is not. What's the point in having all the old traits still available if they aren't meant to be bred for? And btw, by the time most of us can actually get our hands on the latest and greatest, breed it out and resell it, its worth beans, as we've been saying. Many people are still breeding lines from the Starters they purchased; that's sheer dedication right there. There is value aside from being recessive or rare... and that is the amount of work, time, love, sweat, etc that you have put into breeding your cat.

Please do NOT insult people's breeding skills here, you have no place to do this. This is not a thread to take digs at anyone, which you did multiple times in your post. If you can't stick to the topic without tossing out insults and jibes, please keep it to yourself. You've insulted a great many people.

As far as collections are concerned, there is value in those to many many people in the community, that goes well beyond any Pokemon mindset. Most people who collect all of them do it as a history museum of the breedable they love; to share with and show new folks who were not around when those cats were released. I have heard many compliments on those collections, saying "Thanks, I had no idea these looked like this..." etc. So trust me, its not about being able to say "Neener, I have them all". Its about history and cherishing something you enjoy, being able to provide that to people new to the community.

[Ethereal Hurricane]

I think you missed the part I was talking about when I said crappy bottom tier 9t. Like putting flair, curious ears, mysterious tail, white whiskers, mysterious whisker shape isn't a huge feat these days. Hence why they never sell. Again, I'm not slamming anyone's hard work, but those types of cat/trait combos don't really sell, and if they do, not for much.

I'm not arguing what you think is good, I'm telling you what sells. That's it. If you're not worried about what sells, then you shouldn't be worried about what I said. Simple as that.

[Khea Karas]

(03-19-2012 09:25 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  I think you missed the part I was talking about when I said crappy bottom tier 9t. Like putting flair, curious ears, mysterious tail, white whiskers, mysterious whisker shape isn't a huge feat these days. Hence why they never sell. Again, I'm not slamming anyone's hard work, but those types of cat/trait combos don't really sell, and if they do, not for much.

I'm not arguing what you think is good, I'm telling you what sells. That's it. If you're not worried about what sells, then you shouldn't be worried about what I said. Simple as that.

I think you are misinformed about that. I see plenty of cats like this sell for $1000sL. Its all up to the owner. If they wish to sell it for a price they consider to be worthy of their hard work you have no right to say otherwise. Just dont buy it.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that infact those traits you consider crappy are actually very useful in terms of breeding recessive traits to know if you have passed on the trait you are breeding for. So please dont underestimate a non recessive 9T cat. It a horrible misunderstanding. They ARE quite valuable to any breeding program and have their place on the market.

[Ethereal Hurricane]

(03-19-2012 10:10 PM)Khea Karas Wrote:  EDIT: I would also like to point out that infact those traits you consider crappy are actually very useful in terms of breeding recessive traits to know if you have passed on the trait you are breeding for. So please dont underestimate a non recessive 9T cat. It a horrible misunderstanding. They ARE quite valuable to any breeding program and have their place on the market.

Weird, I normally find it more useful to have recessive traits to pull traits. Hmmm, I guess I need to rethink how I breed >.<

I know when I want to pull my Balinese Seal Lynx fur, I pair it up with my Burmese Champagne.

(btw if you pair champagne and get champagne back, all you know is that the other cat either has champagne or better, so you've basically learned nothing)

edit*
Also, I'll concede, that sure, if all you have to work with, is more dominant traits, that's fine, but I assure you there are better ways of doing things. But that's not really what we're debating, now is it?

[Khea Karas]

(03-19-2012 10:48 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  Weird, I normally find it more useful to have recessive traits to pull traits. Hmmm, I guess I need to rethink how I breed >.<

I know when I want to pull my Balinese Seal Lynx fur, I pair it up with my Burmese Champagne.

(btw if you pair champagne and get champagne back, all you know is that the other cat either has champagne or better, so you've basically learned nothing)

Pulling traits yes, but breeding out traits no. For example. If you know a cat has twinkle shade hidden...and you have no showing twinkle shade cat, the worse thing you can do is breed it to a porcelain shade. Basically you make it (almost) impossible to breed out because you have nothing more recessive to breed it with to see if it passes to the kittens, because once you breed 2 porcelains you have the chance to make it pure. Therefore unpacking that cat becomes useless...or a dud, because you cant be sure twinkle even exists there anymore.

But if you breed it to flair, and you get flair, you know you have it hiding. You then breed the cat again with an illume, and you get illume, you know you have it hiding. Breed those two and you have the chance to get illume, flair or twinkle. and so on.

[Tad Carlucci]

Not impossible. Just a lot harder. If you have no choice than to use a more dominant trait to pull a more recessive one out, you need to do it twice and cross the offspring .. once you get a boy and a girl.

[Callie Cline]

hi all

i am gonna chime in a bit sooner with a different subject than the post about how i end up at times making too many colors

thus far, in over a year being out, we've been quite fortunate to have civil and respectful discussions in our forums and chat. i love that about our community. i know you ALL have worked to make it that way. it's not magic, it's work and in the breedable world, a miracle.

i have a request.

in this discussion, would you please keep the comments towards towards others from name calling or "correcting", (even those who may drive you nuts or upset you or "offend you")

my request is if someone does say something that is upsetting, why not write them privately, and sort it out that way. i'd love us to stay on track with keeping personal attacks or giving 'advice' about behavior out of this discussion. "difficult" conversations are things that can often alienate people, and split up communities and overall just cause issues that don't happen when 2 people work things out together.

especially when the "snide remarks" or "questionable words" are in an open chat or forum. it's human nature to defend oneself and often conversations stop being conversations and turn into "who's right", "who's wrong", "don't talk to ME that way" and stuff like that.

i think we are bigger than that

which is not to say we can't disagree, but again i ask to keep it respectful, and if you find it's hard, maybe take a step back and reply later. you are all to valuable to the community and to us for me not to say something.

i am NOT speaking to anyone in this thread specifically, just throwing out a request to those participating because i care and value each of you


thanks in advance for understanding and i will post about the other stuff tomorrow.

callie

[Ethereal Hurricane]

If you'd care to discuss KittyCats traits more (I'm as impassioned as you , we should take this to IMs or PMs as this is derailing the original topic quite a bit, I'm just glad I was able to bring my perspective to the table as a buyer and auction watcher. No offense was honestly meant.

[Tad Carlucci]

Let's do some combinations using letters.

If you have a trait you know is more recessive than the hidden you want to expose, good.
That is, you want to expose 'b' from ..
Ab x Cd -> Ac (failure) Ad (failure) Bc (success) Bd (success)
.. 50% odds of success

But if you don't have it or don't know it, use a more dominant from the middle.
That is, if you want to expose 'c' from ..
Ac x Bd -> Ab (failure) Ad(failure) Bc(continue) Cd(success)
.. 25% odds of success, 25% odds to continue

Or you want to expose 'c' from ..
Ac x Bb -> Ab(failure) Ad(failure) Bc(continue) Bc(continue)
.. 50% odds to continue

Or you get lucky exposing 'c' from ..
Ac x Bc -> Ab(failure) Ac(failure) Bc(continue) Cc(success)
.. 25% success, 25% continue
Yes, 25% looks like failure because you don't KNOW B hides c. So you call Ac a failure instead of a continue. Ce la guerre

You'll want two, or more, Bc(continue) boxes to cross. 50/50 odds the second will mate with the first, generally you should expect a mating pair in three boxes.

My rule of thumb is to use the MOST dominant trait JUST BELOW the visible trait hiding the trait you want to expose. Why? Because if you fail in the first set of crosses, if there is another trait between, you can repeat the process. If you use the most RECESSIVE, just above the trait you want to expose, if you fail in all attempts to cross the offspring, you're done. (ie, cross Am with B?, if that fails you'll have some Bm to cross with C?, if THAT fails you'll have Cm to cross with D? .. etc)

For example, in another thread we see Black Silver hiding Lynx. That's well and good, but if you can only afford that one 'hiding Lynx' example, you'll have a VERY HARD time getting it out of the Black Silver. On the other hand, a Bengal Silver hiding Lynx means you have several choices, and a Siamese Seal hiding Lynx means just about every fur can be used to pull out that Lynx gene. So .. THINK about things before you purchase a 'hides' offspring. Not only may the 'hides' be wrong but, even if it's there, the dominant hiding it can make things easier or harder .. especially if you have a run of bad luck.

[anna Acanthus]

(03-19-2012 10:48 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  Weird, I normally find it more useful to have recessive traits to pull traits. Hmmm, I guess I need to rethink how I breed >.<

I know when I want to pull my Balinese Seal Lynx fur, I pair it up with my Burmese Champagne.

(btw if you pair champagne and get champagne back, all you know is that the other cat either has champagne or better, so you've basically learned nothing)

Here's a thread which may help you with your rethink about breeding :
http://kittycats.biz/forum/showthread.php?tid=3033