Forum Rating/Reputation System

[Kayleigh McMillan]

Oké I'm going to be very frank here.
I think the ratingsystem is very much abused especially in Tad's rates case it is just noteworthy while checking his ratings how many of us fight to keep him above below zero xD
I'd be honest sometimes Tad and I disagree and sometimes big time and sometimes to the max but he is the perfect example why this ratingsystem fails.
But he can be just hilarious as well so to me Tad is never for ever a target to be negative about.
It is just not sound an individual is able to break someones reputation for ever because for ever is a long penalty >.<
I'd much rather see these people IM eachother or something to sort some things out than battle it like this it is unworthy I think.

[Deer Thistle]

(07-23-2014 02:19 PM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  Oké I'm going to be very frank here.
I think the ratingsystem is very much abused especially in Tad's rates case it is just noteworthy while checking his ratings how many of us fight to keep him above below zero xD
I'd be honest sometimes Tad and I disagree and sometimes big time and sometimes to the max but he is the perfect example why this ratingsystem fails.
But he can be just hilarious as well so to me Tad is never for ever a target to be negative about.
It is just not sound an individual is able to break someones reputation for ever because for ever is a long penalty >.<
I'd much rather see these people IM eachother or something to sort some things out than battle it like this it is unworthy I think.

Exactly. No one should feel compelled to give positive ratings only because they want to undo someone else's negative rating, especially those which are totally unwarranted. The worst part about all of this is the sheer amount of power KittyCatS grants forum members because of this system, and to top it off with unlimited power. There's no allotment on how many times a person can downrate another unlike forum posts where if you double post, they're merged for instance. It's set up to be abused with ease, and has been.

This system fails on so many levels; I don't care how much someone thinks another person deserved their negative rating or "w/e they had it coming ex dee xD", NO forum member should have the power to permanently give negative reputation to another, even if this negative rating is smothered in positives later on by other sympathetic members.

The bottom line is that this system has been abused and still continues to be abused, no member should have this sort of power. If something is really and truly wrong with that person's posts, KittyCatS should reprimand them as any other forum would where the moderators or administrators deal with the matter. It should not be in the hands and paws of KittyCatS forum members who have infinite power to downrate people into oblivion due to: a) tone - especially a blunt tone without all smileys and hearts to avoid potential offense, b) sense of humor - this applies most to sarcasm that others can't read so well online, c) difference of opinion that someone may take personally, d) Google Translator making someone sound condescending/mean, e) in-world dislike/differences seeping into the forum. Notice that four of these five deal with possible misunderstandings, the last is one that shouldn't even affect someone's forum reputation.

People are also allowed to change. If someone did post something condescending and cold-hearted, and it was very intentionally done without a doubt, they also have a right to start anew. Why should their past doings from 2011 be branded on their forum reputation forever by another member? No one deserves to feel unwanted or disliked because of someone else's forum rating where they may have been misunderstood, and no one should feel unable to move on from the past if they wish to continue KittyCatS on a new, positive note.

I know it's been mentioned that opinion-wise, some think that rating doesn't matter, some don't care about their own rating, etc, but not. everyone. is you. Not everyone reacts the same way as you. Beyond that, due to the way in which the reputation is set up for easy abuse, negative ratings are more likely to happen the more you participate in various topics, especially those from the feedback forum to a debate topic.

Should people really feel intimidated to post in fear of receiving a possibly negative rating for a difference in opinion, a bit of misunderstood sarcasm peppered into the thread, their translator making them sound rude, etc? We should want people to feel encouraged to post and share their thoughts without any fearful repercussions, no matter how low these repercussion occurrences are in comparison to the positive ratings received by others. A forum - and KittyCatS - should want everyone to feel welcome to post no matter how jumbled their translations are or how polar opposite their seemingly harsh opinion is from majority of other people in the thread.

With Second Life hosting a wonderful, very much international community, we all derive from different places with different acceptable tones, or are accustomed to a certain type of humor or etiquette, we're bound to step on someone's toes, it's inevitable. This current system doesn't work with that fact in mind. The bottom line is that no one forum member should have the power to permanently put a negative mark (or many more) on someone's reputation, no matter how much they believe it's warranted. On top of everything else, the ability to double-downrate someone within two minutes is downright ridiculous and abusing the system, I'm sure this is not how KittyCatS intended for the negative reputation to be utilized. KittyCatS: Remove the ability for forum members to add negative reputation, or remove the reputation system altogether.

(I could go on and on, this issue really bothers me and I'm notorious for typing up novels for forum posts, LOL sorry.)

[anna Acanthus]

I find this thread of a rather excessive nature and i believe it's only about one contributor out of how many on this forum?
The fact that he's sent another member into a spinny isn't that surprising and one isolated case does not a general issue make; there's hardly a frenzy of power thirsty trigger happy nutters downrating agogo.
And i feel that unless this does actually happen then any action would be unwarranted.

My own sympathy tends more towards certain tender souls who have felt snubbed, belittled and haven't dared post again in the forum.
There are many shy members who are very young, not so young, unsure and who don't know how to defend themselves.

[Dimpz Morane]

Has to admit I am confused by this thread - on the one hand it appears the OP is stating people need the freedom to express themselves without condemnation and yet on the other hand, others who disagree with their views - cannot express how they feel or rate has they choose

Again, I agree with Anna. I think this thread is a little premature in nature, not really seeing much evidence of the rating system being abused on the forums. However if this were to happen then I am sure the Kittycat team with their wisdom would address the issue immediately.

[Deer Thistle]

People can feel free to express their opinions as they want, that's the beauty of the forum, no one should be denied that. But no one should be penalized for someone else's opinion forever and no one should have the power to do this either. I've never, ever been on a forum that enables members to have this function without limitation. Why? Potential abuse, no matter how little.

Negative ratings shouldn't be branded on a person's forum reputation from 2011 and on, that's ridiculous. I've changed a lot since 2011, so have others, I would be pretty upset if I had to reflect on my negative feedback from 2011 when we're in 2014, and there are people with negative feedback sitting on their reputations from 2011-2012, they may be distant from your circle of friends but they do exist. Not only that, but there's bound to be misinterpretation that leads to a negative rating (Ugh I sound like such a broken record, LOL), why should anyone be penalized for that by another forum member? And again, this is forever. Unless you plead to the other member to remove it or bring it up with KittyCatS devs, it'll be there. If there was an expiration on the negative ratings counting like eBay I believe has nowadays, that would be fine too. At least the person will know that it'd go away eventually.

KittyCatS has been around since 2011. If someone was fairly expressing their opinion at the time and rated accordingly "they deserved their negative rating!", the person with the negative rating has a right to move on from it and not have a testimony about a post from years ago on their feedback. There are members in the past who no longer post on this forum (I wonder why :\ ) who have negative ratings, it's not just the one affected individual who posted in this forum topic representing this whole issue.

As stated before, there's obviously a giant gap between those positive ratings versus negatives, I've never denied that. Please tell me what harm would it do to cut out the abusiveness of the feature? We've had a member come here and demonstrate the feature being abused on his own forum name, beyond those with merely negative ratings. Whether by merging two negative comments together as I suggested earlier, removing the negative feedback aspect only (Honestly don't think any forum member should have the power to blemish a person's reputation forever), or remove the whole system altogether, I would love for something to be done. It just doesn't seem right that no matter how little 'evidence' there may be, that it can happen and has happened.

And no, this doesn't affect me at all as you can see. But I still feel for my forum member brethren who don't deserve to have this happen with their possibly unpopular tones, opinions, or overall misunderstandings.

Leaving this in the trusty paws and claws of KittyCatS to decide on at this point! I can see how this issue and my stance could be easily perceived as 'premature' or such a minor issue that doesn't affect many, including myself, and you're right to an extent. But the bottom line is that it still can happen, and has. And ideally, the KittyCatS forum should strive to be a place without neither loopholes for abuse nor a function where members can permanently post a negative testimony in red, followed by a number drop from another's reputation count for years to come.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

Forever is just too long indeed IMHO I much rather have the KC team to interfear than that we would be able to punish one another forever .
It has a tricky side effect as well which we may not directly think about but if a person is abusing the negative ratingssystem too much it may be even worst for their, maybe not visable, reputation and for this reason it is a too strong tool as well.
Because if one can not stop to be angry they may be better of not to be able to use that negative rating button.
People think and talk a lot and that can't be made undone not even by taking back those negative ratings.
The moderators tend to repremand very in general and not focussed on one person.
I bet they do that for a reason the people it concerns know very well they were part of something which the moderators do not feel is sound or is against KC's TOS I sure know when Callie chimes in like in general but means, beyond others, me with it
I also think they are more objective they are no part of a niche of friends and their concern is that their forum is freely accesable for everyone to speak their mind within their TOS.
Sometimes topics are closed if things get out of hand in my opinion moderators may be more visable in potentionally difficult topics to indeed protect younger people or people who less easily are able to defend themselves for what ever reason.

In general, call me a softy if you want, I feel for people who feel unwanted or a target by the way they speak.
We have lots of possibilities to let one and other know we do not quite appreciate how an other is behaving.
What is wrong with just using words to address that instead of having people walking on eggshells?
If they even have the courage to participate in an hostile environment in which they get downrated.
I strongly believe in the power of words and that is what a forum is all about anyway.

If I used that rating button by every contribution in which I don't like something it would be not so full of green figures here
It is just I rather solve stuff differently in most instances.
In less than a handfull situations I marked a negative but after some time I removed it again because it's just water under the bridge at a certain point.

[Kayla Woodrunner]

It sounds like the real problem is people don't know how to discuss and disagree with others. People should be able to disagree without it having a negative impact. It limits a lot of creative thought if people only feel it is ok to be nice and agree with everyone. Disagreeing is not the same as putting someone down for their opinion and calling them stupid. That is called insulting someone, not disagreeing. Some people seem to take disagreement as the same as an insult which is too bad for them. Restrictions on insulting, name calling and etc is a good thing (as people withdraw from being attacked which limits creative thought) but a system which punishes people in perpetuity for disagreeing with someone and backs their disagreement with reasonable arguments (like in any good debate) has a problem.

That said, we also have a problem because we are an international community, it is hard to be sensitive to all cultures. A lot of cultures have limits on how directly disagreement can be expressed without insulting people to which is added the burden of translating machines. I think it should be built into the system that we be fairly forgiving. Either the negative rating should be removed or negative ratings should fall off after a certain timeframe between 3-6 months. A short timeframe seems reasonable given the transitory natures of most posters although a core seems to be longterm.

At the same time, the moderators can stay on top of situations if someone is directly insulting people by calling them idiots personally, they can be warned and if they continue to do it, be removed for a specified time (basically timeouts because people can learn and change negative behaviors). Calling someone stupid and then adding a or a LOL is still an insult. Implying someone is uneducated in kittycats becuase they don't understand the breeding stats/system because they are new is not the same as calling a person stupid. It can just be a lengthy explanation on the system on why something can or cannot happen with the intent to educate. I don't see many people directly insulting other people although I do see people getting upset that someone said their opinion is wrong in a direct vehement manner with a direct explanation of why they are wrong. If a person can't allow other people to disagree without getting upset, they don't belong on a forum either. What they really want is just to talk to their friends who all agree with them. Which is sweet but sometimes we need spice or we stagnant and don't learn or create anything new (like the folks who all agreed the world was flat).

So slinging sugar, salt and spice ok; mud not ok. Forgiveness (negative ratings rolling off) but also boundaries (timeouts). It's a balancing act. that's my two cents. (or $L2 in this economy).

[Ivy Norsk]

When I first joined KittycatS last fall, I posted in what turned out to be a contentious thread on marketing that has since been deleted. I took a firm position in that thread and within 24 hours was given one plus rating and then one negative rating to erase that one. When I saw that happen, I shrugged and thought, 'so much for rating on this board'. I have never used the rating system. I have made use of the little 'thanks' roses on posts.

One way of thinking about this issue is to focus on what the purpose of the ratings are, and are they functioning properly for that purpose. People who hang out on the board every day get to know the personalities of other posters through their writings. It seems to me that the function of the reputation rating is *trying* to provide a shorthand way of alerting new people and less frequent posters as to whether a particular person writes reliable helpful posts (or not). Certainly one's assessment of the 'helpfulness' of a post can vary.

As I said above, I don't use the system, which is ripe for gaming. That said, I'd agree that not very many people seem to abuse it, just a few. On the other hand, there are a number of regular posters on this board, Tad being a prime example - since his name has already been tossed out here - who deserve all the positive reputation that they have accrued and even more. If the system exists to alert new and casual users as to who are the 'authority' figures and community keystones, well it kind of does that, albeit roughly, and I'd say that certain people ought to be rated even higher. Tad for his Build-a-Cat alone should have a very very high rep.

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Maybe we should have a Kittycats Hall of Fame Award once a year for things nonstaffer do that is awesome. Tad's Build-a-Cat. Also Saga's dominance charts would be worthy. Also the discovery/retired doc but I don't know who did it although I have the link
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An2zxhMKmhAJdGQ5VkotUkJQZC14Y1JfWGZicTJlenc#gid=0

It could be like the academy awards -- part judge's vote and a people's vote award too. A particular month or two weeks could be set aside for this when there is no special kitty releases. Then if you "win" you get recognized as a hall of famer on the reputation

[anna Acanthus]

OMG Kayla, if you only knew how this would put the cat amongst the pigeons !
To start with i don't think the KC team could host an event such as this as they would be accused of favoritism and god knows what else.
Also there's the fact that there are those discreet and anonymous people who have in various ways made enormous contributions over the years.

Gosh i'm lolling already just imagining the reactions and the err…reactivity(?) that this would stir up in the community. Not that i've done anything noteworthy but even if i had i certainly wouldn't want to be a candidate.

Your idea totally has my vote though as i do enjoy a good rhubarb

The thread you mention, "KittyCatS History: Who discovered what & when?" was in fact created by Deer Thistle, the OP of THIS thread and was certainly a much needed contribution and required much brain wracking and time consuming research .