The 9T for 100L "bargain"

[Hathor Xaris]

Just recently i kinda given up on selling kittycats for now and everything pretty
is saying pretty much explains why I find myself menaging and imploding,
then hording the best of the best knowing i won't get what they are worth to me, i think what really was
the last straw was someone being upset i wouldn't sell my 8T 2500L retired fur
mega for 500L , they kept saying they didnt want to breed and that was their excuse
for why they thought they should get to buy it for only 500L,
but i knew full well they were taking me for an idiot and that they were just a
vulture looking for a desperate breeder to take advantage of,
then turn around and force it on someone else for the amount i deserved...
how rare megas are i only get one every 50-100 boxes, i dont even want to explain
how much that costs in food but be assured when you see prices tags on
megas for 6k or more its well deserved due to rarity and trait value combined..
and when you see it for under that its due to desperation...

I raised the price on it to 3000L after they said that out of anger.
the last thing i had to sell for cheap was a foxie mega with jade eyes for only 800L!!
this is after it would not sell for weeks at 1500 L, after that i fed my cats and
menaged the last of the ones i could not afford to feed ive gone from over 500 cats
in the beginning of my kittycats breeding hobby to just under 80 about 6 or 7 months
and a whole bunch of mistakes later

So im keeping them all now, will only be keeping one inworld store to "show"
them off at exorbitant prices and to help set an example of actual worth,
its no wonder everyone who's new always asks what to price their cats for,
they are clueless in a washed up market like this,
im treating my cats like designer cats or something to
that effect hoping it will help retain their value by teaching others exactly
what that is, keeping only the good ones and drowning the ugly ones is my
new policy, at least to what suits "my" tastes, some of you might be horrified to see
what kinds of traits i regularly menage without even flinching anymore.

hoping that one day soon more new ppl realize that they should consider
being as stubborn as I am by taking up the practice of
not selling their cats for "peanuts" instead menage menage menage,
or only opening what they can afford to feed, or simply not trying to open too
many cats at a time chasing after traits, and learning to ditch the ones that don't
put out, thats if they can get over all the confusing things about learning how to
breed kittycats properly in the first place,

its not easy to take the reins sometimes, i know in the beginning i was doing the
same thing from sheer inexperience, selling them for very low prices
just to try and feed my cats, i just finished cleaning out over 100 kitties
on the online marketplace i had to sell them all for 100L each and thats the
last time i ever breed that many cats and actually think i can sell them for what they
are worth in a market where my neighbors undercut me every time knowing
they face similar issues, since its a group evil we all seem to lose out hard
from our own desperation,

but now because of this the market is so bad and im forced just to not really have
very many cats and not bother even trying to sell them too often... Luckily for me
though i have other sl businesses to rely on to feed a few select kitties.
And btw i didnt know they did temp increases of menagerie dollars before,
thats a fantastic idea, but sadly i've already had to menage so many many kitties
so little that helps me now, heres to visiting more auctions, which i finally now understand why,
and hoping things get better in the fall...
cuz thats how long y'all gonna have to wait to buy my pretty kitties again...
im off of the kittycats market for now, cept for my dozen or so in my one
showroom store im keeping course

sadly i dont have much time for much else this busy rl summer brings,
but you might still see me a wall flower at an auction or two on my day off,
and thats only if i actually have some extra some rl money to spend on sl.
as supposed to the money id get from kittycats sales like i use too...

[anna Acanthus]

(06-07-2014 07:37 AM)devilness chant Wrote:  *Waves like a crazy person to everyone! lol

I was into kitties since almost the beginning, and I've been out of kc for a year or more.

Sometimes I come to forums and chuckle to see the same debates and complaints that we had 3 years ago. lol

I went threw the rags to riches back to rags with kitties. I have to say that in a market that has grown so huge and has so many ppl that mostly buy and sell in clicks, the market isn't going to change. It will always have it's rags and riches stages.

It's not like the days when a rare trait stayed rare for months or took months to breed out of a starter. It's not like the days when we had two sims for shops.

I can go into the everyone uses the non dom traits to pull the dom traits out and waters down the value of the new more dom trait. (omg I forgot the word recessive till now haaaaaaaaaaaa been a while)

I saw top breeders drop their prices way down (compared to what they used to sell them for) just to keep up because the market dropped so low.

Not everyone can afford to keep kitties and try to make enough money to be able to keep our hobbies going. A lot of ppl love breeding kitties. (I did) But when it came down to groceries or kitties I ended up choosing groceries. (and put on ten pounds....guess I should have stuck to kitties haaaaaa)

I've seen good unknown breeders that had amazing boxes sit on shelves for weeks till they dropped them down to nothing before anyone would buy them.
So unless the ppl that complain about the cheaper pricing start talking with their wallets and offer the sellers of the 100L boxes more money. They will keep selling them cheaper.

It's not up to KC to regulate the market and the pricing. It's up to all of you. Put your money where your mouth is. But in a market this size you will all be broke in a day. rofl

It's like a commercial I saw a while back. They should replace the word cocain with kitties. lol (That was me the true Kitty addict! lol)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGAVTwhsyOs

Yes I'm still Devilish and I still say what's on my mind. (much to the joy of my co workers hehehehe)

Take care all, and to my old friends I wish you the best and hope life is treating you wonderful for you all deserve the best! Hugzzzzzzzzzzzz

Hey Deeeeeeeeeev !! Waves like crazy back.

We often wonder where you're at but it'll probably take a while for your friends to see this post as many don't do the forum that often now.

Anyhow great to see you're ok WE MISS YOU !

Really hope to see you in world again sometime so we can catch up a bit we could all do with a bit of whacky right now.

Take care, huge hugs and smax

[Vrem Vaniva]

(06-07-2014 08:36 PM)Hathor Xaris Wrote:  what really was
the last straw was someone being upset i wouldn't sell my 8T 2500L retired fur
mega for 500L , they kept saying they didnt want to breed and that was their excuse ...
I raised the price on it to 3000L after they said that
...
hoping that one day soon more new ppl realize that they should consider
being as stubborn as I am by taking up the practice of
not selling their cats for "peanuts" instead menage menage menage,
or only opening what they can afford to feed,

Good for you Hathor. Hold that line, set an example. Not many people would see your 3K price for the 8T megapuss as unreasonable. Unaffordable to many, maybe, but certainly not unfair. Not even unaffordable to someone who really wants it and has the sense to save for a desired purchase.

Anyone who makes/sells stuff in SL encounters freebie-seekers daily. I've been wheedled in all kinds of ways ... shockingly at times ("I neeed that dress but I don't have $195 lindens -- will you give it to me? Oh and i don't have time to sit and wait for the lucky chair to call my name, plus I don't remember what the first letter of my name is because i keep changing my name to something illegible.") The cheap-kittie-shark might just be a new breed of freebie-seeker ? Freebie-seekers are often tremendously proud that they don't spend even an RL penny in SL. It's the pride of being successful at ... well, taking. Hang in there and take comfort in the fact that you are contributing. Maybe be a little bit cynical about people who try to bully you into giving up your best for nothin'.

I am sad to see the sadness all through your post. I hope that good turns of events will change that sadness back to joy.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

First of all I agree that everyone is free to sell kitties for the price they want and I think wether we agree with that or not it happens anyway so it has no use to argue or battle the bargain sellers or retailers.
I think it doesn't matter much what my personal ethics are for buying and selling in this because the last thing I aim to do is to make everyone, with a variety of budgets and RL reasons, the same as me.
It is and remains to be a free market in which each individual is entitled to sell their kitties as they want otherwise it would become a little scary if there was a big brother watching over everyone and telling them right from wrong.
I think what right and wrong is is in the eyes of the beholder and is therefore subjective.

From my perspective the urge to anticipate with the market or sell kitties has changed.
While I always bred and still breed for my hobby (gosh the kitties are so damn cute I love them and can't deny them anything) meaning if I never earned a dime I'd still breed but in fact I earn pretty decent money with kitties.
Still I came to a point now for various reasons and the changing market dynamics are one of them ( perhaps not even a changing market I think that was always the same: sales in the season desperate in the spring/ summer, but more the size of it OMG ) that I do not sell kitties anymore and mainly share them with friends and every so often via an IM requests by what people see in my showroom.
I've still some older boxes in my shop but I consider to close all together because selling and anticipating with the market isn't as fun for me anymore as it once was.
I feel a bit like Hathor in some aspects I prefer to keep my breeds and bring my cattery even more back to a hobby level.
Perhaps after 3 years of active involvement with the market I get a bit bored by it and also by the sales forums -.-
Wow those are epic lists of sales sales sales
So yes I agree with both opinions here because I feel it is everyone's right to sell their kitties as they want and for the amount they want it would be totally scary if otherwise was forced upon us.

About 9T bargains for 100L lets just say most 9T kitties I do not even want to buy let alone feed even if they were given to me.
Mainly if the by me desired traits are weak (hiding an even more recessive than I aim for) and because I pay for the looks and not their trait count.
Personally I love appealing combinations wether or not 9T way more than the avarage 9T.
So as far as that goes besides we can't do anything about it they may be not so desireable by everyone as it looks.
I for one look for specific traits and I don't care about the amount of traits and those traits or trait combinations are valuable to me and I love to pay money for to include them in my own projects (after a pedigree background check).
If a Foxie Mask with Ody Belini and all is hiding behind the 9T as usual it may not be worth more than 100L or is better off to play with the Tigers.

[Hathor Xaris]

I wonder if it's possible that some of the vultures are typically from third world countries where 100 linden is actually good money to them, as to how exactly they obtain their kitties in the first place? It's probably that your guess is as good as mine...just guessing here, and considering that they are probably obtained in illegitimate ways it could be all the more reason to avoid buying from not so well known avies when the price tag is too small.

[Dimpz Morane]

(06-08-2014 11:31 AM)Hathor Xaris Wrote:  I wonder if it's possible that some of the vultures are typically from third world countries where 100 linden is actually good money to them, as to how exactly they obtain their kitties in the first place? It's probably that your guess is as good as mine...just guessing here, and considering that they are probably obtained in illegitimate ways it could be all the more reason to avoid buying from not so well known avies when the price tag is too small.

I find this incredible offensive and racist, in so many ways - my blood is actually boiling!!!

please think before posting such remarks

[Tad Carlucci]

Just that one post? This entire thread is elitist and highly offensive.

The basic idea seems to be that some should have the right to set the standards for everyone else. If someone wants to sell cats at a price which some (even a majority) feel is too low, tough; learn to live with it. Nobody has the right to set a minimum acceptable price. And, most definitely, nobody has a right to harass either the seller or the buyer.

Frankly, KittyCatS should strongly reprimand some of the posters on this thread, and then delete it.

[Deer Thistle]

(06-08-2014 12:55 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  Just that one post? This entire thread is elitist and highly offensive.

The basic idea seems to be that some should have the right to set the standards for everyone else. If someone wants to sell cats at a price which some (even a majority) feel is too low, tough; learn to live with it. Nobody has the right to set a minimum acceptable price. And, most definitely, nobody has a right to harass either the seller or the buyer.

Frankly, KittyCatS should strongly reprimand some of the posters on this thread, and then delete it.

My thoughts exactly. The community has advocated price guides and I believe this notecard still goes around judging by group chat, and that's the best the community can do in hopes of having others adapt to their ideal price range. KittyCatS shouldn't step in; Second Life has always been about a free market no matter skins, clothing, or cats. As stated before, people will always dance to their own beat, no one will ever 100% bend to your ways, this doesn't make them malicious people worthy of being objectified like they've been in this forum topic. I also don't think this should make any person feel disgusted or offended or whatever other negative comments have been said here shaming these people.

Honestly, if the mere price others put on cats similar to yours takes away from your cat feeling like the Mona Lisa painting or whatever the comparison was and also yields such emotionally-charged, anger-filled responses, then perhaps you should question why you love that particular cat or are in the hobby. A Linden amount shouldn't dampen your feelings toward a breeding project or dream cat accomplishment, just like newly recessive traits overshadowing the old ones shouldn't sway your love for particular traits.

(06-08-2014 11:31 AM)Hathor Xaris Wrote:  I wonder if it's possible that some of the vultures are typically from third world countries where 100 linden is actually good money to them, as to how exactly they obtain their kitties in the first place? It's probably that your guess is as good as mine...just guessing here, and considering that they are probably obtained in illegitimate ways it could be all the more reason to avoid buying from not so well known avies when the price tag is too small.

[LyricaBlues Resident]

(06-08-2014 11:31 AM)Hathor Xaris Wrote:  I wonder if it's possible that some of the vultures are typically from third world countries where 100 linden is actually good money to them, as to how exactly they obtain their kitties in the first place? It's probably that your guess is as good as mine...just guessing here, and considering that they are probably obtained in illegitimate ways it could be all the more reason to avoid buying from not so well known avies when the price tag is too small.

I find this post incredibly offensive and cannot believe we can't discuss business matters and our hobby without someone resorting to this sort of stereotyping.

And if anyone else finds that having an opinion about how things might change to benefit All in the cat fancy then perhaps they should read something that requires a bit less instrospection...Hey, how about those cute little scratching posts...

---

Elitist? Come on now...we can discuss and agree or disagree. Lets just be thankful that most have replied respectfully and with open minds and most of all lets be thankful that we have sooo many other threads to read and post in

[Vrem Vaniva]

(06-08-2014 12:12 PM)Dimpz Morane Wrote:  

(06-08-2014 11:31 AM)Hathor Xaris Wrote:  I wonder if it's possible that some of the vultures are typically from third world countries where 100 linden is actually good money to them, as to how exactly they obtain their kitties in the first place? It's probably that your guess is as good as mine...just guessing here, and considering that they are probably obtained in illegitimate ways it could be all the more reason to avoid buying from not so well known avies when the price tag is too small.

I find this incredible offensive and racist, in so many ways - my blood is actually boiling!!!

please think before posting such remarks

... hands Dimpz an ice pack to cool the blood ... plays soft music.
I feel you're being too harsh with Hathor. She is trying to find some explanation to account for ... the behavior of tricksters and fraud artists she has encountered. It's easy to be indignant and "holier than thou" if you aren't willing to put yourself in another person's shoes for a moment.

The only thing remotely racist in Hathor's comment is the term "Third World". Not really sure exactly what is meant by that term -- but she only referst to "countries where 100L is a month's salary." -- so -- economic third world, not racial third world ...
You've all see the fly by night skin template pirates and such ... IP theft knows no cultural boundaries, surely. There's no way to pirate a kittycat, yayy. But we have encountered fraudulent trading, so don't be too judgmental of Hathor's observation.
An imperative to Tolerance is built in to the Terms of Service in Second Life. The TOS doesn't go a lot further than that, -- hence, kindness is not required.