Annoyances

[Tad Carlucci]

(10-12-2012 01:08 PM)Bea Shamrock Wrote:  That's interesting and something I wasn't aware of - if you move the kitty to an alt and back you can't see their OS anymore? The system assumes you never owned the kitty before?

Exactly. Which is why I call it an annoyance. It could be fixed. But there are probably more pressing issues, so it may be a while.

But .. YEAH! .. they do listen and, as always, continue to make usability improvements.

[dakillakm Resident]

In regards to some of your issues
#1- I discovered this quite by accident but if you go to the "My Account" page there is a box you can check that will allow the gender of all boxes in both the cattery and pedigree to show.
#2- I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you mean by being able to see the visible and the dominant. I see the same information for boxes listed in the same way as the pedigree (except for the creation date)
#3- This could be helpful to change, but since I keep all my boxes in the cattery I can't see it making much difference for me

The issues concerning passing cats to alts and not being able to follow their trees or not being able to follow the tree of cats you previously owned is aggravating. However, as mentioned, some people are very particular about privacy matters and have voiced their opinion in opposition of being able to follow trees up through cats you don't own(whether you gave them to an alt, sold them, whatever). I don't quite understand the part about following a cat from box to parents but not parents to box. If I want to see what sort of offspring a cat has produced I simply go to that cat's pedigree and the offspring are shown below, including the ones I have sold although I can't click on them. I haven't used my alt's cattery/pedigree enough to have encountered this problem if it is related to passing cats between alts.

#6- Thus far I haven't encountered this problem.

Although that was mostly rambling at least, hopefully, there's at least a solution to the first problem in there

[Tad Carlucci]

I just spotted that option, too. Don't know if it solved the issue for Gender or not. I can't test it any more because we decided to open the boxes. What I did notice was that if I changed the box, in-world, to 2D mode, it showed the Gender on the texture/image. Changing the name for force an update cycle to the Mothership's database updated the name, but did not expose the Gender on the Pedigree or Cattery pages. As I said, I can't re-test since I've opened the boxes. Perhaps that option corrects the issue by showing the Gender on Cattery and Pedigree pages. Or, perhaps, those boxes would continue to fail to show Gender in either place.

There are other examples of information which is available in-world but not available on one or another of the web pages. Collars, for instance, are in-world but only on the Pedigree Roster. I've never tested to see if custom collars appear properly there. The question is why just collars? And, if collars are that important, why only on the Roster page and not elsewhere?

One good example of information only available on the Cattery, but not on the Pedigree Roster or Pedigree View (tree) pages, nor (reliably) in-world, is the date the box was created. If this information is important enough to be presented on the Cattery, why is it not important enough to see for our non-Cattery boxes? As was pointed out, though, the obvious work-around is to put all boxes in the Cattery. I highly recommend that for a number of reasons. But some players would prefer not to use the Cattery: why disadvantage them?

---

Take Coat as an example. There are THREE coat attributes for each cat. There is the 'paint job' coat, the 'dominant', and the 'recessive'. For most cats, the paint-job is exactly the same as the dominant. But, for special collection cats, it's common for the paint-job to differ from the dominant.

In-world, the paint-job is the texture you see, the coat in hover text, and the coat listed in Local Chat. If you breed the cat, and check it's offspring, you'll see the dominant listed there. So the dominant is discoverable, provided you can find an offspring of the parent.

On the Pedigree Roster listing and in the Cattery, what you see is the paint-job coat.

On the Pedigree View (tree) page, what you see is the dominant coat.

When working in the Cattery, you're probably most concerned with the genetic information (that is: the dominant coat) and don't really care that the cat happens to have a paint-job which obscures that, under most conditions, when you examine the cat in-world. Similarly, it's probably common to actually be more concerned with the genetic (dominant) coat when sorting or selecting in the Pedigree Roster view. The only work-arounds are to remember to flip into the Pedigree View (tree) page and hand-check each paint-job to see if it has the genetics you're looking for; or to keep careful notes offline.

Yes, the Cattery shows the same "paint-job" information as the Pedigree Roster. But, especially if and when they add sorting and selection capabilities, the information shown is almost certainly NOT the information the users are most often concerned with.

--

The issue with which offspring are reachable from parent is easily solved, conceptually, and should be fairly easy to fix in SQL. First off, recognize that all cats always show their parents (if any) and grand-parents (also, if any). The issue arises when YOU (one Avatar) did not breed the offspring from the parents, but now own both a parent and it's offspring. In this case, as always, from the offspring, you can see it's parents. But, since you did not breed the offspring from the parent (someone else, perhaps your ALT, did), you cannot see the offspring from the parent's Pedigree View (tree) page. If, however, you DID breed the offspring from the parent, you CAN see it. This is a one-sided restriction and has nothing whatsoever to do with any complaints about privacy. And it's simple to fix. Rather than saying "If you bred the offspring from this cat you can see it listed below the parents" simply add "or if you own the offspring at this time." This does not change any information exposed by the system. It simply makes the already-presented information work both ways .. if you can see the parent from this offspring, and you now own the parent as well, you can also see the offspring from the parent.

I could make a case that instead of "at this time" it should instead be "ever"; but I expect that would require additional storage overhead not currently in the database. So, while it would be nice to have "ever", "at this time" will probably solve most of issues this one-way trap door creates.

--

The last issue, missing or incorrect images, was noted several hours after the current Halloween collections came out. Some of Charm's cats from those collections showed eyes and whiskers (two of the image layers) but did not show coats/ears or shadows (the other two image layers). On examination of the files on the web site, I could see that the images had been uploaded and installed but the Pedigree and Cattery pages were using the incorrect name and/or folder path. This caused me to examine those few cats I own .. very old Specials .. and I noted that one of them shows the stock Coco (I think it was) Coat rather than its Special paint-job Coat. Some of these errors are probably gone by now. Some may still exist. It's not a question of "program code" .. simply ensuring management procedures are in place to avoid these issues in the future.

--

The issue with count-downs when opening boxes can be confusing. I considered ALL three of my boxes "special collections". But two took 15 minutes and one took only 5. Earlier we'd opened some of Charm's current Halloween collections and I noted that some (only one or two) CLAIMED they would need 15 minutes, but, one minute later, ticked down to 4 and, indeed, only took 5 minutes. This last is especially troubling because one could easily believe the 15 minute claim, and head out shopping, only to return 14 minutes later expecting to see a cat about to appear and, instead, find your kitten has had 10 minutes to tear around and hide inside a wall prim somewhere!

[Bea Shamrock]

(10-12-2012 06:01 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  On the Pedigree Roster listing and in the Cattery, what you see is the paint-job coat.

On the Pedigree View (tree) page, what you see is the dominant coat.

When working in the Cattery, you're probably most concerned with the genetic information (that is: the dominant coat) and don't really care that the cat happens to have a paint-job which obscures that, under most conditions, when you examine the cat in-world. Similarly, it's probably common to actually be more concerned with the genetic (dominant) coat when sorting or selecting in the Pedigree Roster view. The only work-arounds are to remember to flip into the Pedigree View (tree) page and hand-check each paint-job to see if it has the genetics you're looking for; or to keep careful notes offline.

Yes, the Cattery shows the same "paint-job" information as the Pedigree Roster. But, especially if and when they add sorting and selection capabilities, the information shown is almost certainly NOT the information the users are most often concerned with.

--

The issue with which offspring are reachable from parent is easily solved, conceptually, and should be fairly easy to fix in SQL. First off, recognize that all cats always show their parents (if any) and grand-parents (also, if any). The issue arises when YOU (one Avatar) did not breed the offspring from the parents, but now own both a parent and it's offspring. In this case, as always, from the offspring, you can see it's parents. But, since you did not breed the offspring from the parent (someone else, perhaps your ALT, did), you cannot see the offspring from the parent's Pedigree View (tree) page. If, however, you DID breed the offspring from the parent, you CAN see it. This is a one-sided restriction and has nothing whatsoever to do with any complaints about privacy. And it's simple to fix. Rather than saying "If you bred the offspring from this cat you can see it listed below the parents" simply add "or if you own the offspring at this time." This does not change any information exposed by the system. It simply makes the already-presented information work both ways .. if you can see the parent from this offspring, and you now own the parent as well, you can also see the offspring from the parent.

I too would like to see the costume kitty's genetic characteristics on the Cattery and Pedigree Roster -I remembered there was something about that but not having any kitties like that in the cattery right now, I couldn't remember what it was.

About the parent-OS issue: I haven't tried getting back one of my kitties from my alt and trying to see their OS; but I have bought parents and their live and boxed OS and all 3 (2 live, 1 boxed) of the OS I didn't breed but now own appear below each parent on the pedigree tree along with the OS I've bred myself. (I hope the way I'm writing it is making some sense -it's really late for me tonight)

[Equinox Pinion]

(10-12-2012 06:01 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  I just spotted that option, too. Don't know if it solved the issue for Gender or not. I can't test it any more because we decided to open the boxes. What I did notice was that if I changed the box, in-world, to 2D mode, it showed the Gender on the texture/image. Changing the name for force an update cycle to the Mothership's database updated the name, but did not expose the Gender on the Pedigree or Cattery pages. As I said, I can't re-test since I've opened the boxes. Perhaps that option corrects the issue by showing the Gender on Cattery and Pedigree pages. Or, perhaps, those boxes would continue to fail to show Gender in either place.

There are other examples of information which is available in-world but not available on one or another of the web pages. Collars, for instance, are in-world but only on the Pedigree Roster. I've never tested to see if custom collars appear properly there. The question is why just collars? And, if collars are that important, why only on the Roster page and not elsewhere?

One good example of information only available on the Cattery, but not on the Pedigree Roster or Pedigree View (tree) pages, nor (reliably) in-world, is the date the box was created. If this information is important enough to be presented on the Cattery, why is it not important enough to see for our non-Cattery boxes? As was pointed out, though, the obvious work-around is to put all boxes in the Cattery. I highly recommend that for a number of reasons. But some players would prefer not to use the Cattery: why disadvantage them?

---

Take Coat as an example. There are THREE coat attributes for each cat. There is the 'paint job' coat, the 'dominant', and the 'recessive'. For most cats, the paint-job is exactly the same as the dominant. But, for special collection cats, it's common for the paint-job to differ from the dominant.

In-world, the paint-job is the texture you see, the coat in hover text, and the coat listed in Local Chat. If you breed the cat, and check it's offspring, you'll see the dominant listed there. So the dominant is discoverable, provided you can find an offspring of the parent.

On the Pedigree Roster listing and in the Cattery, what you see is the paint-job coat.

On the Pedigree View (tree) page, what you see is the dominant coat.

When working in the Cattery, you're probably most concerned with the genetic information (that is: the dominant coat) and don't really care that the cat happens to have a paint-job which obscures that, under most conditions, when you examine the cat in-world. Similarly, it's probably common to actually be more concerned with the genetic (dominant) coat when sorting or selecting in the Pedigree Roster view. The only work-arounds are to remember to flip into the Pedigree View (tree) page and hand-check each paint-job to see if it has the genetics you're looking for; or to keep careful notes offline.

Yes, the Cattery shows the same "paint-job" information as the Pedigree Roster. But, especially if and when they add sorting and selection capabilities, the information shown is almost certainly NOT the information the users are most often concerned with.

--

The issue with which offspring are reachable from parent is easily solved, conceptually, and should be fairly easy to fix in SQL. First off, recognize that all cats always show their parents (if any) and grand-parents (also, if any). The issue arises when YOU (one Avatar) did not breed the offspring from the parents, but now own both a parent and it's offspring. In this case, as always, from the offspring, you can see it's parents. But, since you did not breed the offspring from the parent (someone else, perhaps your ALT, did), you cannot see the offspring from the parent's Pedigree View (tree) page. If, however, you DID breed the offspring from the parent, you CAN see it. This is a one-sided restriction and has nothing whatsoever to do with any complaints about privacy. And it's simple to fix. Rather than saying "If you bred the offspring from this cat you can see it listed below the parents" simply add "or if you own the offspring at this time." This does not change any information exposed by the system. It simply makes the already-presented information work both ways .. if you can see the parent from this offspring, and you now own the parent as well, you can also see the offspring from the parent.

I could make a case that instead of "at this time" it should instead be "ever"; but I expect that would require additional storage overhead not currently in the database. So, while it would be nice to have "ever", "at this time" will probably solve most of issues this one-way trap door creates.

--

The last issue, missing or incorrect images, was noted several hours after the current Halloween collections came out. Some of Charm's cats from those collections showed eyes and whiskers (two of the image layers) but did not show coats/ears or shadows (the other two image layers). On examination of the files on the web site, I could see that the images had been uploaded and installed but the Pedigree and Cattery pages were using the incorrect name and/or folder path. This caused me to examine those few cats I own .. very old Specials .. and I noted that one of them shows the stock Coco (I think it was) Coat rather than its Special paint-job Coat. Some of these errors are probably gone by now. Some may still exist. It's not a question of "program code" .. simply ensuring management procedures are in place to avoid these issues in the future.

--

The issue with count-downs when opening boxes can be confusing. I considered ALL three of my boxes "special collections". But two took 15 minutes and one took only 5. Earlier we'd opened some of Charm's current Halloween collections and I noted that some (only one or two) CLAIMED they would need 15 minutes, but, one minute later, ticked down to 4 and, indeed, only took 5 minutes. This last is especially troubling because one could easily believe the 15 minute claim, and head out shopping, only to return 14 minutes later expecting to see a cat about to appear and, instead, find your kitten has had 10 minutes to tear around and hide inside a wall prim somewhere!

If you get only confused by different birthing times and some images which are not correct from beginning than I think we are doing pretty well It would be nice to see some positive post from you from time to time

[Tad Carlucci]

(10-13-2012 07:18 AM)Equinox Pinion Wrote:  If you get only confused by different birthing times and some images which are not correct from beginning than I think we are doing pretty well It would be nice to see some positive post from you from time to time

I'm sorry you can't see how offering such comments are positive. I thought the idea of asking for feedback was so you could do better. Perhaps I was mistaken.

[Tad Carlucci]

In my OP I attempted to keep it short and sweet. In followup discussion I felt expanding upon the ideas from the OP would assist in seeing where I'm coming from.

As to my support for the product: I've written a number of articles which I feel are quite positive. But I do that on another forum. Most recently I wrote about the results of my examination of the product's performance, when compared to another major breedable product on Second Life. For some time, now, the supporters of that product have consistently claimed that their declining interest, as measured by the steady decline in that product's population, was typical of all breedables. Using information gleaned from the KittyCatS Pedigree and Cattery pages, I was able to produce evidence that, for the entirety of the KittyCatS produce's lifetime, populations have steadily increased; putting the lie to the claims that all breedables constantly decline and, in fact, showing that KittyCatS populations have actually increased their rate of growth.

---

Actually, no, that wasn't my most recent article. My most recent article was comparing the KittyCatS Menagerie subsystem to another product's similar feature. In that, I used the KittyCatS feature as an example of how to do it and ensure one remains compliant with the Linden Labs ToS; and from that, discussed the potential pitfalls their competitors would face, suggesting they revisit their design.

[dakillakm Resident]

(10-12-2012 06:01 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  I just spotted that option, too. Don't know if it solved the issue for Gender or not. I can't test it any more because we decided to open the boxes. What I did notice was that if I changed the box, in-world, to 2D mode, it showed the Gender on the texture/image. Changing the name for force an update cycle to the Mothership's database updated the name, but did not expose the Gender on the Pedigree or Cattery pages. As I said, I can't re-test since I've opened the boxes. Perhaps that option corrects the issue by showing the Gender on Cattery and Pedigree pages. Or, perhaps, those boxes would continue to fail to show Gender in either place.

It will fix the issue, as long as the issue is that you want the gender of your boxes to show in the cattery and pedigree. If this wasn't a solution to your problem I wouldn't have suggested it. I had previously heard people talking about this pulling the box in world then sending it back and it shows the gender, but that never worked for me. Only this solution has fixed my problems.

[KittyCats Resident]

(10-12-2012 06:01 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  The question is why just collars? And, if collars are that important, why only on the Roster page and not elsewhere?

Because they were historically shown, at times there were no vests or hats yet. Adding another few columns will make the pedigree even more wide, beeing useless on many smaller screens, which is already a problem now. Removing them is not an option either, you can't take away something you gave to people before. i have an idea in mind, but its not a priority.

(10-12-2012 06:01 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  One good example of information only available on the Cattery, but not on the Pedigree Roster or Pedigree View (tree) pages, nor (reliably) in-world, is the date the box was created.

Thats because boxes "born" in the cattery appear in that list, rather then besides the cat as it happens in world. To get somewhat of a better overview, we added the date so breeders could sort them in the order they were born.

(10-12-2012 06:01 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  Yes, the Cattery shows the same "paint-job" information as the Pedigree Roster.

For consistancy, the cattery shows the same information as the in world cats for the traits. For both the cattery and an in world cat, you will have to consult the pedigree in case of a special edition.

(10-12-2012 06:01 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  The issue with which offspring are reachable from parent is easily solved, conceptually, and should be fairly easy to fix in SQL. First off, recognize that all cats always show their parents (if any) and grand-parents (also, if any). The issue arises when YOU (one Avatar) did not breed the offspring from the parents, but now own both a parent and it's offspring. In this case, as always, from the offspring, you can see it's parents. But, since you did not breed the offspring from the parent (someone else, perhaps your ALT, did), you cannot see the offspring from the parent's Pedigree View (tree) page. If, however, you DID breed the offspring from the parent, you CAN see it. This is a one-sided restriction and has nothing whatsoever to do with any complaints about privacy. And it's simple to fix. Rather than saying "If you bred the offspring from this cat you can see it listed below the parents" simply add "or if you own the offspring at this time." This does not change any information exposed by the system. It simply makes the already-presented information work both ways .. if you can see the parent from this offspring, and you now own the parent as well, you can also see the offspring from the parent.

I could make a case that instead of "at this time" it should instead be "ever"; but I expect that would require additional storage overhead not currently in the database. So, while it would be nice to have "ever", "at this time" will probably solve most of issues this one-way trap door creates.

This functionality, in the exact way you describe it, was added 5.5 months ago as can be seen in the news section (http://kittycats.biz/blog/2012/05/03 ) as well as the forum (http://kittycats.biz/forum/showthread.php?tid=3636).

We were not able to reproduce your issue at this time.
If you had the problem occuring more recent then 5.5 months ago, please post both ID's here so we can check.

Thanx in advance.
KittyCatS

[Callie Cline]

we always appreciate feedback. what can happen is, often in text communication (with the absence of tone) is things can seem to come of more "harsh" than intended. we don't have the ability to hear voices, see facial expressions which can be very helpful when giving "feedback". it's something we all have to deal with in SL.

also at times our own mood can effect how we read something, and how we write it, how we interpret it, etc...

then we have different personalities, speaking styles, cultures, etc... it's a wonder we communicate for the most part on a good level with all those variables! (and tons of others we each bring to the table in any exchange)

so we do thank everyone for their input, and hope the community knows we are open to it. we do our very best to solve the problems that arise and we know we are quite far from perfect in anyway. we are thankful that we have a community that cares so much about the KittyCatS.