Faux Puff - Cobalt! NEW FUR

[Songdog Woolley]

I totally agree with you about the term "solid", even though I've found myself using it often. I consider it a "weasel word" which is ambiguous at best, and has been inserted into the jargon to the detriment of the community. Except in certain circumstances, it's not easy to make a pure cat, and even if you have a good line going, it can take a LONG time. I do try to say "appears solid" in order to highlight the uncertainty. No "SOLID" cat can be considered pure without proof. Purity requires strict rules and proofs. And I find most either don't understand the difference nowadays, which makes the use of the word worse.

(02-07-2026 05:37 AM)Sara Franco Wrote:  Thank you for your input.

I think it is difficult to be sure of anything because there are different possibilities.
You know your cats better, but as an outsider looking at the pedigree, I can't tell what Joscelyn is hiding because a solid cat is not necessarily pure and I have no idea what Moniqua is hiding and could have passed instead of the Burmilla - Lilac Shaded.

I personally do not care much for the concept of solid trait, because a solid trait could be as non-pure as a non-solid trait. It has a chance of a pure but not certainty.

I either try to make a pure with certainty (like mating two hiders together) or I treat my solid trait as a possibility of a pure only, so can't use it to prove a placement.
We all have had traits that were solid for generations that turned out not to be pure.

I also think a solid trait can be confusing in a pedigree when it comes to deciding hiders and that a sure proven hidden recessive trait is more helpful in placing a trait.

[Sara Franco]

I agree . The word "Solid" seems to have double meaning now.
It can be confusing especially to new breeders.

And even experienced breeders can forget while working with a solid trait that something else could be hidden there, and that leads to disappointment.

I hardly use the word as I fear that breeders who buy my cats may feel cheated if I claim my trait is solid and it gives something else because they assumed an almost certain purity which I could never guarantee in this case.

Pure is difficult to work on yes, but what I find even more difficult is proving Purity to interested buyers if they do not know how it works and if I am selling in my store and not in an auction. Why would they take my word?

Even the traits that were the most recessive at some point so it was easy to prove they were pure, are not most recessive now, and not everyone remembers they were at some point. Like I had made many Flowerchild Goodvibrations when I discovered the eye and they were the most recessive for some time. Who would believe now they are pure? Hard to calculate exactly how long they had been most recessive unless you study the history document.
Many breeders have pure Flair Tail cats now, and soon not many will remember it was the most recessive for long, therefore pure at the time.

However, I am excited to start making some pure lines. I did not feel the need before, but I think it will be fun to work on something so challenging.

(02-10-2026 12:19 PM)Songdog Woolley Wrote:  I totally agree with you about the term "solid", even though I've found myself using it often. I consider it a "weasel word" which is ambiguous at best, and has been inserted into the jargon to the detriment of the community. Except in certain circumstances, it's not easy to make a pure cat, and even if you have a good line going, it can take a LONG time. I do try to say "appears solid" in order to highlight the uncertainty. No "SOLID" cat can be considered pure without proof. Purity requires strict rules and proofs. And I find most either don't understand the difference nowadays, which makes the use of the word worse.

[Eleanor8 Resident]

Faux Puff - Cobalt is recessive to Tiger! - Dusky Winkle.

[Cassian Vaher]

Dominant to Chateau Cat - Cocoa Puff No. 1

[Grace Winnfield]

I apologize for the multiple photos but is this a good proof that FP Cobalt is Dominant to Toyger Snow (it wasn't my hope but it looks to be reality)





Maybe Danicawhitewolf Resident or Lexi can peek at their pedigrees for the older cats?
If not what do you think I can do to make a proof here?

I looked back and NuMoo was discovered 4/23/22. There were still several things more recessive to toyger snow than it that existed before NuMoo and the birth of my snows parents.
Chateau Cat Toffee Carmel
Ocicat Platinum
Chimera Black and Grey
Cheetah Au Naturale
Cheetah Maltese Black Chinchilla

[Arcadiamyst Resident]

Hi

For this to be a perfect proof with a certainty of 100%, it needs to be shown that :

1 Norville and Amena BOTH hide toyger snow and neither can hide a more recessive fur. This would make 'Test kitty cobalt' pure and the proof valid.
2 The cobalt source is Nadia. This is certain as she hides tuscan terra or more recessive and can't hide toyger snow.

Point 2 is proven, so lets consider point 1.
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Norville - His parents are both Numoo They are Meowsical and Meownerva, both my line and 1256 days old.
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Meownerva hides chimera black grey or something from moohammed (which could include toyger snow)
Meowsical got the numoo from a starter and hides toyger caramel or cheetah maltese (see my pedigree) or more recessive He cant hide toyger snow
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Ameena - Her parents are both Numoo. All four grandparents are Numoo at 1289 days old . But this does not confirm she is solid
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Unfortunately this is where it isn't certain. The pedigrees prove the source of the toyger snow is either of ameena's grands or Meownervas grands. And there is nothing to suggest the lines are related. There could be something more recessive behind any of these cats. Either of Ameena's grandparents, or Meownerva dad's line . We know one must be toyger snow, but not which one. And can't prove more than one is a snow.

CHecking the dates, was anything more recessive than toyger snow available
The cheetah maltese black chinchilla was discovered in december 2021 which is 1460 days old (-100 or so for the cobalt discovery date) which is within the range for all of the cats relevant.

So unfortunately this is not a perfect proof.
BUT
Grace you need to breed Test kitty cobalt to a euro grey (anything below that wasnt available at the time) and see if you can pull out what Test kitty is hiding!! And that, if it is toyger snow, is a proof

I found Dell Dastardly which shows he hides ocicat platinum behind the caramel so it is a possibility your test kitty is hiding that as one possibility

[Grace Winnfield]

Thanks Lexi!!! I'll find a European Grey and breed to Test Kitty Cobalt I have several at 3 days... maybe i can scrub torgons for one living.

[Arcadiamyst Resident]

yes!! Let us know, it may be ocicat platinum too, would still be a proof if it is.

[Grace Winnfield]

I just birthed what I believe is a solid proof. It is kinda long and convoluted but I'll post here in a little bit. Essentially I have a Cheetah Maltese kitty I know Hides ESH G&W and found a Cobalt that hid Toyger Snow.

[Grace Winnfield]

Okay, here we go Proof that Toyger Snow is RECESSIVE to Cobalt
.. Sebastian Hides Shabby Tabby Midnight.
Morit Hides ESH G&W
Nadia is an offspring of Sebastian and Raven (ESH Tuscan Terra)... She produced Estevon with Colfre who is a Toyger Snow. This proof shows that Estevon HIDES Toyger Snow!! So we know that Toyger Snow is RECESSIVE!! To Toyger Snow. I just don't see any other possibility knowing what I see here, but I'll let you all take a peek. Many Many images to follow but I'll start from the top


Ok about this next image. We KNOW Sebastian hides Shabby Tabby Midnight so Morit is a Cheetah Maltese that hides ESH G&W


Here is Nadia's lineage:

and Morits lineage



& Sebastian for more proof


Zela is a ESH TT & so is Raven
The rest of Sebastians offspring here:

Sana is a STMidnight, Kianna is a Scottish fold Champagne

Let me know if you need more but i think the first few images do the trick and the rest is overkill