KittyCatS Love & Frustration

[Arwen Swordthain]

(01-17-2018 02:08 PM)Evolving Yin Wrote:  
I started out this thread miffed and upset, but I must say I am entertained now. Rene has a great product, if he had just treated people with common courtesy there wouldn't have been a need for another profiler. His destroying his own business is baffling to me.

The advantage of you starting this thread is that it has allowed you and others to see that you are not alone in his treatment of you and as you say is now providing entertainment, for both those who have just had their eyes opened and those of us who knew all along that eventually karma would bite him the arse. I have to say I find it highly amusing that he is doing this all by himself with no help from anyone he has pissed off along the way. Karma sure knows how to operate.

[Judysl Resident]

(01-07-2018 11:46 AM)Evolving Yin Wrote:  To all my beloved customers and KittyCatS friends, I will no longer be listed on RM Market Place. Yesterday, Rene notified me that he is giving me 24 hours to choose either his profiler or Torgon's. I believe this is an issue between him and Torgon, and not for either of their customers. If there was any copyright infringement it should be taken up with Linden Labs and not forced upon customers to choose between one market or another.

I have had people in the past try to persuade me from using Rene's profilers, and I chose not to take sides. I do not believe this is my fight or should be my issue, but making me choose is the last straw for me.

Please don't forget there is another profiler option as my cats will still be listed on Torgon's webpage. I won't have time to delete all of Rene's profilers anytime soon as I am doing some deep soul searching as to what cats I will choose to continue to breed and which traits I wish to evolve on my projects. I am so disheartened by all the challenges in breeding and selling my cats that I am just going to keep a few cats for my own enjoyment, but not breed on the scale I have been.

Love & Peace for 2018

[CamillaContiki Resident]

This guy has been bullied people for over 3 years now and still people act like it is a surprise. Most of you are aware of that but not before he turns on YOU there is a reaction. If people would have been more loyal towards each other this would never have happened. This maniac has been let loose for years and years and only because the ones that uses his profilers are enabling him to do so. When money is involved the community feeling and compassion goes out of the door. Lick'n and a few others DID take a stand very early ( thanks Lick'n ) but most sim owners and users did not care at all...and still don't.

I hear a lot that we have a fantastic community. I don't see that. A great community would never had let this crazy person continuously bullied it's members. We are responsible for what kind of community we create. We all are and Rene wouldn't have stood a chance without you guys.

[999ShadowCat999 Resident]

I started with KittyCats about 110 days ago. after a short time I decided to dig further into breeding and started gathering information about what to do and what I need.
thats how I found out about the profilers and the other post about a creator bullying
people. so it was clear which product I bought.
now after reading about this new drama, I made the desicion to not even use the webpage anymore. so if i search for specific cats, I will only use Torgons. this is my personal decision, I will never force others to do the same.
but for sure I will never recomend Renes profilers, if anybody asks why, I will direct them to this and the other forum post to understandand and make their own decision

[Minx Diabolito]

It might be worth mentioning that a number of stands were taken against the treatment people receive by this creator and can be found on the forum. Maybe it can be helpful for people thinking which profiler to buy or just wanting to know a bit more about it to look at these. I had a few people who have IMed me inworld asking to know more, and also what caused a second profiler to ever be needed, so I hope these forum links can help give more info here and a 'history' of what has happened. These are some I have found though some of his more unpleasant or unreasonable comments appear to have been altered or removed by him. Even so, they are interesting and informative posts

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28290&page=1

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28131&page=1

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28686

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28357

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28688 (as Callie puts here "it's fair to mention the OP changed their post and others removed comments. so this other text may seem out of context" but it made good sense before the rest was changed)

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28124

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=24245

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28671

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28292

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28537

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=29410

Also worth a mention is that he makes profilers for other breedables and created not so pretty situations there too, many before he made profilers for the cats. A bit different to here, people bought the profiler and then he charged a fee after they purchased it to continue using it. It is normal to him to get people on board, trap them and introduce a catch, treating people like his resource to use and try to manipulate instead of valued customers. This is why early on some of us took a position of wanting an answer from him if he was going to do the same and get us to buy it then charge us this weekly service charge too. I believe that because we did this it stopped a progression to this happening for KittyCatS profilers also. Unfortunately a leopard does not change his spots so he just found another way to make everything unpleasant for people and try to boss them around =/

I want to also say thank you to KittyCatS for letting this forum thread stay open and giving us all a place to say our views and feelings, and also for banning this man from the forums so that we have a 'safe place' to honestly speak of our experiences. It is appreciated =)

[Evolving Yin]

(01-19-2018 04:47 AM)CamillaContiki Resident Wrote:  This guy has been bullied people for over 3 years now and still people act like it is a surprise. Most of you are aware of that but not before he turns on YOU there is a reaction. If people would have been more loyal towards each other this would never have happened. This maniac has been let loose for years and years and only because the ones that uses his profilers are enabling him to do so. When money is involved the community feeling and compassion goes out of the door. Lick'n and a few others DID take a stand very early ( thanks Lick'n ) but most sim owners and users did not care at all...and still don't.

I hear a lot that we have a fantastic community. I don't see that. A great community would never had let this crazy person continuously bullied it's members. We are responsible for what kind of community we create. We all are and Rene wouldn't have stood a chance without you guys.

I recognize you are right, the better part of me should have turned off Rene’s profilers a year ago, but another part of me just wanted to sell cats so I could afford to continue to breed them. Breeding is an escape for me. It occupies my mind and gives me dopamine shots whenever I finally breed the cat I have been trying for.

My father has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I have struggled for years to overcome the negative influence he has had on me. I tend to find myself still trying to be the optimist about people who are inflicted with the disorder. I recently had a conversation with someone still using Rene’s profilers, and she said “I am used to men acting this way in my life.” Sometimes early ingrained conditioning is difficult to overcome.

I have fought social injustice for a good part of my life; and truthfully, the bottom line is sometimes I am just tired of fighting. I come to SL to escape and try to find some enjoyment in the time I have for myself now. I am not offering this as an excuse, just and explanation, and I know I don't speak for everyone only my own personal struggle with this. I have heard the argument: Do you stop using Apple products just because Steve Jobs was a jerk?

I do believe we should keep trying to create a better community, and always strive to create a better world. When one person gets tired and drops the ball, someone else needs to pick it up. I hope we get there someday, and I commend those who stood up to Rene from the beginning.

I also decided to start a blog, for a much longer winded version of this response. Starting a blog is something I have wanted to do for some time. The timing just seems right now.

Evolviing Yin's New Blog

[Emilia Darkwatch]

Evolving, thank you for sharing about that and being so open about it. I agree with you that it can be difficult to overcome such things, as they become a kind of "norm" even though, fundamentally, we know they are very wrong and negative things. It can be very difficult to learn how to deal with stuff like that, especially when you are used to being the person to always try and see good... I speak from a place of my own soul there with that. It is sad but true that sometimes people just cannot be different or maybe do not even want to... I cannot even put in words how much energy I have wasted in my own life by doing this, often because I believed in a good, that actually was not there and probably never ever will be. It is a wasted empathy but at the same time, not completely because you also know you gave someone a more than fair chance and so, can never regret you did not. The fact is some people just waste every chance you give them and that is firmly on them

I, too, at the time I had described earlier in this forum post was at a weak point where I was emotionally drained. I understand, Evolving, what you mean when you say you get tired of fighting these people and also come to SL for some escape and relaxation really. He threatened to ban me if I did not put prices for every cat and update my profilers immediately. I did it and complied, at that time... even though I thought it was very wrong, purely because I just did not have it in me at this time to fight it. I couldn't deal with anymore and couldn't be bothered to argue BUT... at a later date when I was much more collected and he came at me again, this time with his utterly ridiculous, bullying demands of making me choose his profiler (which of course, I did not... why would I ever affiliate with that nonsense?) and repeatedly attacking me and trying to make me discuss what I put in MY store... no no... enough. It was clear to me then that this was not just a bossy person or controlling one... this was a bully

This man is a classic example of someone with a big problem... who makes his problem that of many others. Whatever his official condition is, I don't actually care at all anymore, and it takes a lot for me to say that about anyone. I really do not care though, as he has caused so much misery for others and showed zero empathy or understanding for them. What I DO care about passionately is that no other person should go through it, waste their money and more than anything be subject to such vile treatment as he does constantly. He has serious control issues, to put it politely... his messed up business is the least of his worries and could actually be an opportunity for him to take a long look at himself and say "hey it's time to actually learn some new coping strategies in life that don't involve bullying people". The sad fact is though, he probably is not capable and even if he is... I do not care for him. He has done more than enough, and then some. It is true of the chaos he tried to make with other breedables he made profilers for, and perhaps even still is causing such problems. I have no idea as I do not breed those types anymore so am not in the groups to know what is the current situation

It's interesting to hear of karma mentioned by Arwen... I do agree with you, Arwen, that karma takes care of things just as they should be. For a long time I used to wish karma on certain others until I realised sometimes it is ALREADY there and in motion. The person he is... the limited individual he can be... with so few choices of how to behave... and probably no opportunity to even change that... is horrendous karma, but is well deserved. To know you ruined your own life or trashed your own aims and goals... and you are the architect of that... is truly bad. BUT to NOT know... and NOT have the awareness to see that it is yourself and can only carry on and on, blaming others and being hateful to them... is a truly much more horrendous karma, as unlike the one who is able to eventually work out it was them at fault... the person who cannot see, cannot change. Just cause more misery again and again and again, and never learn. The only part which is truly unfair is how others who are quite innocent get caught up in their hurtful ways. That can never be reasonable. In our cases, even if we did ever get refunded (and we damn well should be) it will never undo the messes he has caused to people emotionally

I look forward to reading your blog entries, Evolving, I am sure you will do every well with that

[Tad Carlucci]

I have been monitoring the populations the past few days. Torgon's has had quite a number more owners but not as many cats or regions listed.

As of this point

* cats Torgon's has 8300 and RM's has 8200. (The claim of over 10000 is false and does not match the sum of the data.)

* owners Torgon's 223 and RM's 178

* regions Torgon's 68 and RM's 108

To my mind, while Torgon's may be found on fewer regions, it is now the more widely used product.

[Evolving Yin]

(01-19-2018 11:21 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  I have been monitoring the populations the past few days. Torgon's has had quite a number more owners but not as many cats or regions listed.

As of this point

* cats Torgon's has 8300 and RM's has 8200. (The claim of over 10000 is false and does not match the sum of the data.)

* owners Torgon's 223 and RM's 178

* regions Torgon's 68 and RM's 108

To my mind, while Torgon's may be found on fewer regions, it is now the more widely used product.

Thanks for keeping an eye on this Tad. I think these numbers will matter to people who are on the fence about what profiler to choose. I will make sure Torgon's numbers go up even more when I open my Warehouse of boxed cats. I haven't had time since I have been focusing on live cats, but my plan is to cut down on live cats and make time to put most of my boxed cats up for sale. I think I will open it on my land on Colona just to make sure Torgon gets and extra region out of it

[Arwen Swordthain]

Thanks Minx for linking to some of the other threads for those new breeders or breeders that had been unaware of just how long this has been going on.
I'd also like to thank KittyCats for leaving this thread open but suspect a lot of that has to do with the fact that its all very friendly and hasn't descended into the slanging matches previous threads have. I also doubt that any of the posts here have been reported necessatating KittyCats to closely monitor things. I for one know I reported posts in previous threads, usually those where Rene was attacking someone. Although he is banned from posting, I am sure he is still able to read as a guest and with luck will learn something from this thread if he chooses to read it but since nothing new has been said here that wasn't said on posts he was abusive on in the past I highly doubt he will learn anything.

(01-19-2018 11:08 AM)Minx Diabolito Wrote:  It might be worth mentioning that a number of stands were taken against the treatment people receive by this creator and can be found on the forum. Maybe it can be helpful for people thinking which profiler to buy or just wanting to know a bit more about it to look at these. I had a few people who have IMed me inworld asking to know more, and also what caused a second profiler to ever be needed, so I hope these forum links can help give more info here and a 'history' of what has happened. These are some I have found though some of his more unpleasant or unreasonable comments appear to have been altered or removed by him. Even so, they are interesting and informative posts

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28290&page=1

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28131&page=1

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28686

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28357

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28688 (as Callie puts here "it's fair to mention the OP changed their post and others removed comments. so this other text may seem out of context" but it made good sense before the rest was changed)

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28124

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=24245

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28671

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28292

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=28537

https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=29410

Also worth a mention is that he makes profilers for other breedables and created not so pretty situations there too, many before he made profilers for the cats. A bit different to here, people bought the profiler and then he charged a fee after they purchased it to continue using it. It is normal to him to get people on board, trap them and introduce a catch, treating people like his resource to use and try to manipulate instead of valued customers. This is why early on some of us took a position of wanting an answer from him if he was going to do the same and get us to buy it then charge us this weekly service charge too. I believe that because we did this it stopped a progression to this happening for KittyCatS profilers also. Unfortunately a leopard does not change his spots so he just found another way to make everything unpleasant for people and try to boss them around =/

I want to also say thank you to KittyCatS for letting this forum thread stay open and giving us all a place to say our views and feelings, and also for banning this man from the forums so that we have a 'safe place' to honestly speak of our experiences. It is appreciated =)