Cognac recessiveness?

[Reven Rosca]

I'll try to analyse this


Grandma:
Mum shows Crystal Crush
Dad shows Dry Olive
Kitten shows Ex Breeze which is known to be dominant to Dry Olive, and must be Jo Jo's hidden eye.



Dad:
Mum Shows Cognac and hides Ex Breeze from grandma
Dad shows OCM and may hide Cognac.
Kitten shows Cognac from mum or dad



Mum:
Mum Shows Galaxy Moon and hides Ody Bellini or more recessive
Dad shows Jade and hides Jade or more recessive
Kitten shows Jade, which is known to be recessive to Galaxy Moon, and hides Mum's hidden eye



Offspring:
Mum Shows Jade and hides Ody Bellini or more recessive
Dad shows Cognac and hides
either
Ody Cognac Moon or more recessive from grandpa
or
Cognac or Exotic breeze from grandma

Kitten shows Ody Bellini which is Mum's hidden, and hides Ody Bellini or more recessive from Dad

This means that Dad's Cognac may be grandpa's hidden eye
and that his hidden is Exotoc Breeze from his mum.

If grandpa's hidden eye can be proved to be dominant to Ody Bellini, we will have proof that Cognac is recessive to Ody Cognac Moon, and Cognac will be placed between OCM and Twilight.

A much easier way to prove this will be to breed Grandpa Pippin to a female showing a recessive eye to pull his hidden.

[Arella Ohmai]

Richarda pedi:
her mother, Milkshake:
Milkshake offspring proving milkshake hides tap royal:
Richarda offspring proving she hides Tap Royal:
This proves Richarda hides Tap royal since she got twilight in the offspring which is recessive to cognac and OCM meaning she got milkshakes hidden tap royal.

---

So simple run down..well simple as it gets lol

Jason has Coganc showing hides Exotic Breeze

Clodagh has Jade showing hides Ody Bellini

Offspring shows Ody Bellini

Jason's fathers side:

Pippin shows OCM hides Cognac

Lapis shows OCM hides Twilight

Richarda shows Cognac hides Tap Royal

Jason's mothers side:

Rapunzle shows cognac hides exotic breeze

Lamar shows Cognac hides Exotic Breeze or better

Jo Jo shows Crystal Crush hides Exotic Breeze


So Since the offspring got the Ody Bellini from Clodagh Jason had to have passed something more recessive then Ody Bellini.

Jason passed the hidden Exotic Breeze from Rapunzle meaning he received his cognac from Pippin's mother Richarda.

Since Pippin has OCM shown and hides Cognac means OCM is dom to Cognac.

[Reven Rosca]

Re-run with the new pedigrees in the right places


Grandma Jo Jo (Mom in this pedigree):

Mum shows Crystal Crush
Dad shows Dry Olive
Kitten shows Ex Breeze which is known to be dominant to Dry Olive, and must be Jo Jo's hidden eye.


Great Grandma Milkshake:

Mom Chelsea shows OCM, and hides OCM or a more recessive eye
Dad 9T 2Tone Shows Tapestry Royale and hides Tapestry Royale or a more recessive eye
Kitten Milkshake shows OCM, and hides Tapestry Royale or a more recessive eye


Great Grandma's offspring proving her hidden eye:

Mom Milkshake shows OCM, and hides Tapestry Royale or a more recessive eye
Dad Jackson shows Ody Bellini
Kitten Jimena shows Tapestry Royale, which is known to be dominant to Ody Bellini.
This proves that Milkshake hides Tapestry Royale


Grandma Richarda:

Mom Milkshake shows OCM, and hides Tapestry Royale as proven above
Dad Scannalan shows Cognac and hides Pewter or more recessive
Kitten Richarda shows Cognac from Dad and hides OCM or Tap Royale from Mom

Grandma Richarda's offspring proving her hidden eye:

Mom Richarda shows Cognac from Dad and hides OCM or Tap Royale from Mom
Dad Lapis Shows OCM and hides Twilight or more recessive
Kitten "Hides Tap Royal" shows Twilight and hides a more recessive eye. This must be Tapestry Royale, since both Cognac and OCM are proven dominant to Twilight
This proves that Riccarda hides Tapestry Royale



Dad:
Mum Rapunzle shows Cognac and hides Ex Breeze from grandma JoJo
Dad Pippin shows OCM and hides Cognac or Tapestry Royale from mom Riccarda.
Kitten Jason shows Cognac from mum or dad,and hides either Cognac, Tapestry Royale or Exotic Breeze, depending on who passed the Cognac eyes


Mum:
Mum Shows Galaxy Moon and hides Ody Bellini or more recessive
Dad shows Jade and hides Jade or more recessive
Kitten shows Jade, which is known to be recessive to Galaxy Moon, and hides Mum's hidden eye


Offspring:
Mum Shows Jade and hides Ody Bellini or more recessive
Dad shows Cognac and hides
either
Ody Cognac Moon or Tapestry Royale from grandpa
or
Cognac or Exotic breeze from grandma

Kitten shows Ody Bellini which is Mum's hidden, and hides Ody Bellini or more recessive from Dad Jason
Jason's hidden eye must therefore be the Exotic Breeze from Grandma JoJo, because all other possible eyes (OCM, Cognac and Tapestry Royale) are dominant to Odyssey Bellini.

This means that Jason's shown Cognac must be grandpa Pippin's hidden eye (because grandma Jo Jo passed her hidden eye, and the shown eye isn't Odyssey Cognac Moon)

This proves that Cognac is recessive to Ody Cognac Moon, and Cognac is placed between Odyssey Cognac Moon and Twilight.

PHEW!

[Arella Ohmai]

Laughs! Thank you Reven! @.@ I never do anything the easy way I swear ahahahaha

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Wow, Arella, I'm going to have to chart this even Reven did it cuz I'm still confused. It's a great thing that you keep track of the history of your hids. I do too.

Chart 1: Proves Milkshake hides Tap Royale

Mom Milkshake shows OCM
Dad Jackson shows Ody Bell
Baby Jimena shows Tap Royale, Proves Milkshakes hid is Tap Royale



So Milkshake OCM hides Tap Royale

Chart 2.
Milkshake and Scannalon produce Richarda
Milkshake OCM, hid Tap Royale
Scannalon shows Cognac, hid unknown
Richarda shows Cognac
Cognac has to come from Scannalon as we know mom's shown and hid are not Cognac
Richarda hid has to be either OCM or Tap Royale from Mom

Richarda and Lapis produce a baby
Richarda shows Cognac, hides either OCM or Tap Royale
Lapis shows OCM
Baby shows Twilight
Twilight is proven recessive to both Cognac and OCM.
Lapis has to hide Twilight since Richarda can only hide OCM or Tap Royale
Richarda has to hide Tap Royale since OCM is dom to Twilight

So proven
Milkshake OCM hides Tap Royale
Lapis shows OCM hides Twilight
Richarda shows Cognac hides Tap Royale




Chart 3. Flipping to the other side of the family

JoJo shows Crystal Crush
Slippery shows Dry Olive
Their baby shows Exotic Breeze, proving JoJo's hid

So JoJo shows Crystal Crush, hides Exotic Breeze



Chart 4.
JoJo and Lamar produce Rapunzle
JoJo shows Crystal Crush, hides Exotic Breeze
Lamar shows Cognac, hid unknown
Rapunzle shows Cognac from Lamar, hides Exotic Breeze. Crystal Crush is proven dom to Cognac

Richarda and Lapis produce Pippin
Richarda shows Cognac hides Tap Royale
Lapis shows OCM hides Twilight
Pippin shows OCM from Lapis, so hid has to be either Cognac or Tap Royale from Richarda

Rapunzle and Pippin produce Jason
Rapunzle shows Cognac, hides Exotic Breeze
Pippin shows OCM, hides Cognac or Tap Royale
Jason shows Cognac. At this point Cognac can be from either parent



Chart 5.
Clodagh and Jason produce a baby
Clodagh shows Jade
Jason shows Cognac
Baby shows Ody Bellini
Ody Bellini cannot come from Jason. Jason can only have Cognac (his shown), OCM, Tap Royale or Ex Breeze -- no other possibilities
Ody Bellini has to be Mom Clodagh's hid
Cognac, OCM and Tap Royale are all dom to Ody Bell
Therefore Jason's hid has to be Ex Breeze from his Mom Rapunzle. So his shown Cognac has to come from Pippin his dad.
Therefore Pippin has a shown of OCM, hid of Cognac, proving Cognac is recessive to OCM



Wow you did prove it. I've rarely seen a 5-chart proof. Do you still have Pippin? can you put Pippin against something more recessive? Would be a one-chart proof then. due to disappearing charts on the threads, I am starting a project of saving charts in case they are needed later to prove something. Every once in a while a question comes up but if a chart is gone, the proof is gone too. So I'd really appreciate it. But if not, I'll save all of these. I think Saga likes a one-chart proof but you can send these 5 together. It is complete and their vetter is pretty good.

I know Reven and Arwen went through this but I'm slower so had to go through it for myself because I got confused at first.

Meantime, I'll go ahead and update my Winter 2016: eyes needing placement list because you did it, Arella!

[Arwen Swordthain]

Laughs, yeah the easy way would be to stick Pipin with an Ody Bellini and pop his hid . One chart, no headache But Yay you did it, you placed another eye, Reven, Kayla and I will send you the bill for the headache tablets later

(12-27-2016 12:48 AM)Arella Ohmai Wrote:  Laughs! Thank you Reven! @.@ I never do anything the easy way I swear ahahahaha

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Actually I kind of like the puzzle aspect of this. Because it's actually a flipped chart -- the cognac is not where you expect it to be. This is why tracking hids across generations is incredibly important.

And it's good exercise to avoid Alzheimer's. Takes a swallow of my cherry infused vodka. Although at first it made my eyes swirl! hmmm, maybe that was the vodka?

[KittyCatsProofs Resident]

Congratulations Arella on placing Cognac, the Forum Based Charts have been updated. and I'll take some of those headache tablets too please

[Arella Ohmai]

Laughs hard! I have to say this was the hardest trait track down i've had to do. I was sure Cognac was dom to OCM, but they just had to prove me wrong the naughty biscuits! Thank you all for looking it over and sharing the headache lol
On the note of pippin I do still have him and will be breeding out his hidden for a 1 chart proof. But after 2 days of going where the heck did ody bellini come from I just had to share that cognac is a naughty naughty eye!

[Arwen Swordthain]

Ivy says you are doing some Ody Cognac wine tests, Pipin would be a good one to use there, but please, simpler proofs, my head still hurts
I suspect the OCW is going to place right beside OCM and Cognac so since Pipin has both, perfect test cat
Puts in an order for an OCW cat hiding OCM to place it

(12-27-2016 12:04 PM)Arella Ohmai Wrote:  Laughs hard! I have to say this was the hardest trait track down i've had to do. I was sure Cognac was dom to OCM, but they just had to prove me wrong the naughty biscuits! Thank you all for looking it over and sharing the headache lol
On the note of pippin I do still have him and will be breeding out his hidden for a 1 chart proof. But after 2 days of going where the heck did ody bellini come from I just had to share that cognac is a naughty naughty eye!