Balinese, and the secondary market. Can we *avoid* having a round 2 of this?

[Khea Karas]

(06-18-2012 02:07 AM)Nenya Eun Wrote:  

(06-17-2012 07:47 PM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  But maybe KittyCatS means to be fully transparant considering their involvement with the secondary market and not so much that they don't care about how their cats market or don't monitor that.
After all they need the markets to be able to show new people what possible furs and traits there are and they have every so often sent a notecard in the group with landmarks to secondary markets.
This gives me the feeling they want these markets to be known and seen.

I am sure you've got the point there, Kay.

No one said they didnt want the markets to be seen.

Its not so much about the markets themselves, as businesses we are referring too,...but "market prices" including trends in what is and isn't selling, and knowing what is going on with breeders who are selling the cats.

For example, as Ethereal suggested, a small amount of research on these very forums will show that the price of Lynx has dropped so dramatically, therefore releasing another more recessive lynx would obviously damage sales more. That is the point.

Offering landmarks to these places is showing support yes, but it does nothing when you are talking about market research, and thinking about what should and shouldn't be released and in what recessive order.

[Sisch Firecaster]

I must admit that for the time being, I've not given up on my cats, but I'm caring less... I have literally bunches of 6/7/8 traited Oci Chocs and Aby SB's in my inventory that I can't sell. Since I never have more than 40 cats around, it takes me longer to accomplish my goals in breeding, especially because I don't just see them as breeding machines but often keep them until they are around 120 days old (yeah, silly me ). So, here I am with all my boxes!

Actually, I only just started to at least sell some boxes again after a long time of nothing - but only if I set prices far down. Before the Bali-craze, there were bad selling streaks, too, but I get the feeling it got worse with every new discovery.

And even if it doesn't belong here, the long streaks of only unpacking one gender have slowly undermined my fun too.... I think of the last 10 boxes I opened, I got 2 boys. Meh. There's nothing much else to say but meh.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(06-18-2012 07:27 AM)Khea Karas Wrote:  ... a small amount of research on these very forums will show that the price of Lynx has dropped so dramatically, therefore releasing another more recessive lynx would obviously damage sales more. That is the point. ...

Ah okay I understand what you are saying, sorry this wasn't clear for me at least earlier.
Thank you for explaining!

[Khea Karas]

(06-18-2012 07:51 AM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  

(06-18-2012 07:27 AM)Khea Karas Wrote:  ... a small amount of research on these very forums will show that the price of Lynx has dropped so dramatically, therefore releasing another more recessive lynx would obviously damage sales more. That is the point. ...

Ah okay I understand what you are saying, sorry this wasn't clear for me at least earlier.
Thank you for explaining!

No problem...thats why I thought to explain further. Its hard sometimes when we are not all native english speaking people. Can easily get lost in translation.

[Nenya Eun]

That's what I understood, but not how I understood Kay's answer. lol

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(06-18-2012 08:15 AM)Nenya Eun Wrote:  That's what I understood, but not how I understood Kay's answer. lol

LOL I also meant to say I suspect KC does monitor the market as well besides supporting it via sending a notecard with landmarks.
As a not native English person I do my very best to keep up with you guys

[anna Acanthus]

I believe the real damage was done by the flood of new traits that came with the halloweens, followed by still too many at Xmas as well. I still don't understand why this happened.
Up until this the traits were released at a steady, manageable rhythm.
Anyhow, the team have listened and have clearly slowed down the rate now. I don't see the fact that a few new recessive furs were released is causing any more damage to the market. The Balis have been around for 6 months now so it's quite normal for the prices of basic ones to have dropped to where they are now, the well traited ones will be selling for much more for a good while i think.
As for releasing more dominant traits, they soon get snubbed as soon as their place in the pecking order is more or less established.
The majority of KC owners want new recessive traits and often so it's normal to try to keep dynamising the market in this way.

Personally i too am old school and would like time to continue with long term projects but i've rather given up as this isn't a realistic approach. Anyhow the months that i consecrated to his gave me some good solid stock which is very useful and still sells too.
Unfortunately dumb luck does rule this game, i mean starting with the box you buy, then the roll of the randoms at birth, the gender etc ... and also i'm sure there's a few here who wouldn't be so anti if they were the ones who happened to get lucky and be the first to get a new fur.
I do get annoyed with the team with some of the decisions they make, but on the other hand there are so many "hanged if you do, hanged if you don't " situations, and i'm sure they closely follow the secondary market, after all it's only common sense.
I'd like to say also that the fact of having way too many auctions per week is causing plenty of damage to the market in itself. I won't go into the reasons as this ought to be pretty obvious.

[Rayne Morningstar]

Ok well I guess I have to pipe up on this. I am new to breeding about 4 months now. I fell in to the trap of "Bigger is better" or "More Recessive the better" and I made mistakes along the way. There is a new Fur that is more Dominate to the Lynx even to the Siamese Chocolate. I yes I am one of the lucky ones who got one. Chateau Cat Tawny and White No. 1. I have two boxes took my time because I was gathering data for Saga on what I had found out with my breeding on where it fell on the pecking order. I had to make sure so I waited an extra week before putting one up on auction just to see what it would do. It did nothing, it did not sell I did not get any comments. Granted it was only a 3T that birthed (my dumb luck). I do not know if it did not sell because I did not have the right people there or it was not a Lynx but I can say this much. The Market made this Lynx Craze with out even realizing it.

The issue is that KittyCatS community exploded everyone is getting friends in to it because it is fun but it grew to fast and people only see "Bigger is Better" No one takes the time to learn and see they only see quick money at the auction and thing I want to get in on that and I will admit I was one of them. It was not until I found a place that helped out, great people, took time to show me what I needed. Pointed me to a class I can take and learn. Where I can ask questions all the time and get answers! Yes they need to slow down on the latest and greatest on the new traits. but I think that every single one of us needs to take the time and teach the new people joining in and show them the value of the cats that have traits and show the hard work that is needed. If they say screw you I want my money and run fine, they will burn out and go away because they do not have staying power!

It is up to all of US to say "No I will not buy this cat, this is not the Quality Product that I want!" It is up to all of US to say I want this in a cat and stick to our guns and not break down because I have to have it to compete. I have had many cats not sell and I thought wow I do not have the right cat I do not say to my self I need something better. I ask myself how can I make this cat better this line better what traits do I need on it. What eye would look stunning on this fur to give it that one little punch. Stand up and take the market back yourself. Note who the fire sale people are and not buy from them, note who is selling a fur just to make their money and run and not buy from them. Do not fall in to the trap "Well they are making all the money and I am making nothing" that you have to do the same thing. We as a community can make the change, but we have to do this as a Community.

ok that is enough of me ranting but I had to say my view. Educate the new members. Stick to your guns on what a quality cat is. The market will change it is up to us on how it will.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

I also see investing in a new most recessive fur or trait at a certain point is scary if you demand to get your investment back.
This is the reason I often wait until the big investors did their thing before I buy mine.
This is a dynamic we can't avoid I'm affraid.
People buy a new fur for a HUGE amount and start to produce it real fast hoping to get their money back.
Since I like regardless if this is, as for money, the most wise thing to do to trait my new fur before I sell I obtain it when I feel this is an amount I want to miss for it.
This has hardly to do in my opinion with the research on the secondary market KittyCatS does but more with a mentality of sellers.
Because in no time the investor who has the monopoly for a while is losing this monopoly as more have obtained the fur and they will still need to see money and they drop the price of the fur harsh.
But this is also the moment I think people get bored with the single trait new furs and the breeder who loved to make a fantastic cat out of it has the market.
I agree though making more and more most recessive traits and mainly furs creates unwanted hypes on the market as the breeders want to sell their traited new furs after the hype on them is over.
I miss though the point how this would ruin the market as a whole unless we anticipate with this hype.
I sell my oldtimer kitties pretty well they are still in demand and I think they will remain to be.
This makes me less concerned eventhough sometimes when new furs are released and they are recessive and people throw with a lot of real money to have it first I don't understand that entirely.
But who am I to judge that it is though very surprising to me.

[Nenya Eun]

(06-18-2012 09:06 AM)anna acanthus Wrote:  I'd like to say also that the fact of having way too many auctions per week is causing plenty of damage to the market in itself. I won't go into the reasons as this ought to be pretty obvious.

I so agree with all you said, especially that sentence about auctions, Anna !