Just Curious

[Devilness Chant]

This post in no way is meant to mean any harm or insult to larger Kitty selling sims. I am only asking for polite feedback from renters.

In my time with Kitties, the one thing I have noticed, are all the sims that come and go.

It seems like the smaller sims that charge less for rent don't last long. But the larger sims that charge more for rent last much longer.

These are only my preferences, but I prefer the smaller sims. I don't like the idea of paying high rents, especially during the slow times when the money comes out of my rl pocket. I also like the smaller sims, because my old comp can handle them much better and I don't lag all over. I enjoy shopping at smaller sims because I find prices to be more reasonable, when the renters don't have to pay higher rents. I find that I sell just as well at a smaller sim, (sometimes better) then I have at the larger sims.

I am just curious why these smaller sims are usually half empty of renters, or why they don't last like the larger sims?

I am also curious to know how the independent stores do? I am thinking of just opening a shop on a deck, maybe use the online kitty selling thing and calling it a day.

[Oselkhandro Resident]

I am not a renter, but I AM a browser and frequent shopper. I visit the large ones because I have heard of them and have them landmarked...and they are reliably there. I hate the lag, though, so I don't go often. When I find a good, reliable free standing shop, I visit there most often (Judy's comes to mind). I would definitely visit small, better priced, less laggy kitty sims if I knew about them, and if they were there the second time i visited.

[sneakpastu Resident]

Personally some of the larger and more well known sims are a lag fest. At times I don't know if it is the shear concentration of scripts from the kitten boxes and live cats or all the personal touches added. I don't enjoy trying to shop there...so without a link to a person's store...I'm not browsing or shopping because I don't want to contend with the constant log offs from the lag walking that ends up happening. For me it's my internet connection - not my computer...it can't handle the shear amount of scripts in the area.

The other thing that keeps me from wanting to rent at a larger sim is the rent itself. I would much rather pay a lower rent because I honestly don't place a lot of boxes in world at any given time. I don't generally have the latest and hottest new traits - due to being practical about what I'm willing to spend on a virtual pet. I'm on a limited income so I have to be practical. I breed what appeals to me. I share my extra boxes when I know which direction I am going with a particular line of cats.

I don't rely on the sim advertising for me - never have - never will. I don't just advertise here on the forums. I use Facebook and SL kitty groups to advertise. I enable pedigrees on all of my boxes.

[Ivy Norsk]

I think a lot of this is about advertising and traffic.
I think that many of these smaller kitty markets that come and go - they get some buzz when they first open, but it doesn't always last. I also think that not a few market creators have over-extended themselves and possibly shouldn't have tried to be so ambitious in the first place. There have always been more kitties for sale than people to buy them. I myself have rented stalls at various markets but if I'm not selling enough kitties to break even there (and I include auctions towards that) then I leave. I currently have no stalls at any markets.

A word about live pillows: lives sell better than boxes. I was using the sales of live cats to subsidize the rent on my stores, but once the live pillows came out as a thing one paid for separately, it made no sense to have stall that did not pay for itself. Also, since I mainly breed boutique and retro cats, my lives are not generally the hot new traits and uber-recessive cats that sell so well as lives... so it also didn't pay to rent pillows and I got sick of getting the message that my pillow rent had expired and I was being kicked from the group.

I've also mothballed my home store at least for the time being. The 3rd party stand-alone store only got traffic when I did heavy advertising on the forum here. I'd have sales and I'd have to post every day, otherwise the listing just fades to the second page really quickly. I have some hopes that the Kitty Web Market will help bring in traffic to Independent stores. But really you just need to do tons of advertising to keep the store moving cats.

[Devilness Chant]

Thank you all for your responses so far.

From time to time I go to Kittens Secondary Market thread in Mews and tp around to the different lms to see what is out there. I've saved links from some places I liked, but find some of them gone, moved, in a short time.

I do agree with the things that were said about lag. I don't think it's all the boxes since I've been to places that had lots of boxes but less lag. I think it's all the added scripts that cause much of the lag. And I too would only go to favorite shops and sometimes lock up trying to cam around to the point that I just give up.

Love pillows and shacks do seem to sell best. I don't often put a kitty out, but when I have they always sold.

I think that Ivy hit it right. Maybe some ppl don't realize the expense of having a sim. Land in sl is expensive, and you never know exactly how much your rents will bring in each month since some pay a long time in advance, and others week to week. There is also the constant moving of tenants. If a shop doesn't do well enough to at least cover expenses the renters move on. I know one sim owner that was paying most of her tier out of her own pocket.

It does make me sad to see cute little places go though. I love the shop I have now and have been selling well there, but it's half empty and I'm afraid I will have to move yet again.

[Tad Carlucci]

There are a lot of factors to running a region. Price is one. Design it another. There are a lot more, but I'll cover just those two since they address the OP's comments.

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TL;DR; "If it's not renting at 2.50L$/prim/wk it won't last; avoid it."

Many people think that if you build it, they will come. That's rarely true.

And many over-estimate their tenancy and churn rates.

Consider it like this, in round numbers: A region costs 600 USD/month, and gives you 15,000 prims. Budget 5,000 for your builds, leaving you 10,000 to rent. Over-book those 10,000 by 20%, on the (generally safe) assumption you'll have vacancies and many tenants will not use their full share. So, you're acting as if you're selling 12,000 prims. Now, you're starting at 0 tenant, and assume you'll pick up 10% per month, for 8 months, until you flatten out and, thereafter, maintain 80% occupancy. And, you want to begin turning a profit by the end of 18 months. Do the math and you're selling 129600 prims and need to cover 10800 USD in 18 months. That works out to about 1.16 L$/prim/month. So a shop with 1000 prims must rent for at least 290 L$ per week. And that's assuming you actually WORK AT IT and get the region built in one month, SELL IT at gain 10% per month, and DO IT WELL ENOUGH to get to 80% occupancy. That's a LOT of work, and very risky. So double everything and rent at 2.32 L$/prim/week and MAYBE you'll begin to make a profit in a year-and-a-half. That's about what a successful region rents out at .. 2.32 L$/prim/wk .. undercut that and you're NOT going to do "better", you're guaranteeing you'll FAIL!!!

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TL;DR; "A laggy region is pretty, but poorly managed"

People was always complain about lag, but there are things a region manager can do about it. The problem is, most people like the wide-open gardens. And, to fight lag, the region owner needs to go the opposite direction, chopping it up and closing it in.

The main "lag" people complain about is not scripts or physics. It's a network bottle-neck. Quite simply, all those cats and all that landscaping takes a HUGE!!! number of textures and shapes. And that means a LOT of stuff to download to your viewer. Until it's all there you'll see odd blobs (the shape hasn't downloaded) and gray areas (the image hasn't downloaded).

So, how does the region know what to send, when something (or someone) moves, who to send it to, and when? And, what does it need to send to someone who has just arrived?

In short, the answer is "If you can see it, regardless of your draw distance, it will be sent to you."

So, you land at Too Adorable, where you can see EVERYTHING (or, almost everything). So, when you arrive ALL those shapes, and ALL those images have to be sent to your viewer.

And, when a cat moves, all those shape updates need to be sent to EVERY avatar which could see it .. which, on Too Adorable, means EVERYONE!

Can the region owner do anything about it? Can they do ANYTHING to reduce lag?

Sure, chop up the area. Remember, "If you could see it ..." ??? Well, normal prims with NO alpha BLOCK the view. So, instead of a pretty, open, garden region, make it an indoor shopping mall with twists and turns so nobody, no matter where the land or stand, can see more than a small fraction of the region.

Basically, the choice comes down to pretty, open and laggy, or ugly, claustrophobic and fast.

Take your pick.

[Reven Rosca]

(04-26-2016 11:36 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  Consider it like this, in round numbers: A region costs 600 USD/month, and gives you 15,000 prims.

Ummm, no. Your round number is 300 USD.
I agree on your reasoning, but the number you started with is wrong. This equals 2800L per day (Using LL's own conversion rule, not market rates), and you need at least 10 tenants who pay 200L/week or 800L/month, or 40 tenants who pay 200L/month to break even.

Quote:TL;DR; "A laggy region is pretty, but poorly managed"

Or chock full with avatars.

Sim design is crucial, but then there is traffic.

Avatars have become heavier and heavier to render, they move and collide, and must be rerendered continuously, just like moving cats, except they are heavier to render.

When you set up a shop, you want traffic, because you won't sell anything without customers, and the more customers there are, the laggier the sim will be when everything else is similar.

Working at or visiting a "small market" in a low lag, low traffic sim is probably more pleasant than fighting lag in a high traffic area, but I'd put my two cents on the high traffic area for my shop if I had one. I'm simply not interested in paying some sim owner's tier out of my own pocket when I can sell my cats elsewhere and have them pay their own kibble.

I also breed only KittyCats, and prefer to present my stock at markets and/or auctions that focus on KittyCats and don't mix them with horses, fennux, meeroos (do they still exist?) or gacha sales.
Every visitor at a KC only market are potential customers, while perhaps only one in ten at mixed markets are interested in my cats, so there's my pick.

[Ivy Norsk]

This might be the a propos time to link to the Linden Lab 6-month "Buy-Down offer"

Not that I think that everybody should run out and buy Kitty Market sims, but really, if you have a sim, and can afford the transition fee (LL seems to need the cash), it seems to make sense.

Now I can twiddle my thumbs and wait for them to lower Mainland tier, but that doesn't seem likely.