Galaxy Trip -- Recessiveness

[Reven Rosca]

I unboxed both my pure Galaxy Trip kitties in the end. One is mated to an Ody Kaleidoscope, the other to a Galaxy Moon, while I have Fancie and Jade ready to step in.

[PurringFox McMillan]

just did Jade. Ody K

I believe we have trip between Jade and Violet - need to pull the recessive from Jade - Reven when yours is born?

Mom:


Dad:


Jade Kitten:


Kitten from Violet mating.



The latter is just a rehash of Violet posted earlier

~~Cee

[Reven Rosca]

Analyzing Cee's pedigrees.

Mom:


Mum shows Galaxy Trip and hides Ody Bellini or more recessive

Dad:


Dad shows Galaxy Trip and hides his mum's hidden eye, which is Ody Bellini or more recessive

Jade Kitten:


Mum shows Galaxy Trip and hides Ody Bellini or more recessive
Dad shows Jade and hides his mum's hidden eye, which is Ody Bellini or more recessive
Kitten shows Jade (from Dad) and hides either Galaxy Trip or Mum's hidden eye that is known to be Ody Bellini or more recessive.

This is not a valid proof, and the kitten must be unboxed and bred against a recessive eye (preferably recessive to Ody Bellini in this case) to find the hidden eye.




Mum shows Galaxy Trip and hides Ody Bellini
Dad shows Violet and hides an unknown eye.
Kitten shows Galaxy trip and hides an unknown eye that is recessive to Violet.

This is not a valid proof, and the kitten must be unboxed and bred against a recessive eye to find the hidden eye.

[Arwen Swordthain]

Not really sure where Cee is getting her info, I have Trip as between Strawberry Bellini and Violet. If someone knows different for definate please let me know so I can kill my Fancie Purple Diamond test!
I have yet to see a valid proof reducing this range. Anyone?

[Reven Rosca]

(10-23-2016 03:05 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote:  Not really sure where Cee is getting her info, I have Trip as between Strawberry Bellini and Violet. If someone knows different for definate please let me know so I can kill my Fancie Purple Diamond test!
I have yet to see a valid proof reducing this range. Anyone?

I haven't seen any valid proofs published anywhere, nor have I found any when I have checked the pedigrees of Galaxy eyes that I have found inworld.

My Galaxy Trip vs Ody Kaleidoscope and Galaxy Moon kitties will drop their boxes the coming week, and any result that is NOT Galaxy trip will be conclusive proof, while any kittens showing Galaxy Trip must be unboxed to pull their hiddens.

My Jade kitty is ready to breed when the first test boxes have dropped.

[PurringFox McMillan]

Moon X Trip

Mom:


Dad:


Kitten:


Cee

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Are we not supposed to post the first run? I had always cut the field before opening every box, is this wrong???

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(10-23-2016 03:05 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote:  Not really sure where Cee is getting her info, I have Trip as between Strawberry Bellini and Violet. If someone knows different for definate please let me know so I can kill my Fancie Purple Diamond test!
I have yet to see a valid proof reducing this range. Anyone?

I posted the first go round - the narrowing not definitive placement awaiting boxes coming to breeding level once the field is narrowed, no?

[Reven Rosca]

(10-23-2016 06:19 AM)PurringFox McMillan Wrote:  Moon X Trip

Mom:

Mom shows Galaxy Moon from her father, and hides Tranquility or more recessive from her mum.

(10-23-2016 06:19 AM)PurringFox McMillan Wrote:  Dad:

Dad shows Galaxy Trip from his father, and hides his mother's recessive eye, Ody Bellini or more recessive, since Galaxy Trip is proven recessive to Strawberry Bellini.

(10-23-2016 06:19 AM)PurringFox McMillan Wrote:  Kitten:

Mom shows Galaxy Moon from her father, and hides Tranquility or more recessive from her mum.
Dad shows Galaxy Trip from his father, and hides his mother's recessive eye, Ody Bellini or more recessive, since Galaxy Trip is proven recessive to Strawberry Bellini.
Kitten shows Galaxy Moon from Mum, and hides either Dad's shown Galaxy Trip or his hidden eye, presumably Ody Bellini.

The kitten can very well prove that Galaxy Trip is recessive to Galaxy Moon, if he is unboxed and bred to a more recessive eye.

(10-23-2016 06:19 AM)PurringFox McMillan Wrote:  Are we not supposed to post the first run? I had always cut the field before opening every box, is this wrong???

I don't understand what you mean by cutting the field?

(10-23-2016 06:19 AM)PurringFox McMillan Wrote:  I posted the first go round - the narrowing not definitive placement awaiting boxes coming to breeding level once the field is narrowed, no?

The first generation doesn't narrow the testing range unless both cats are proven to be pure, or one is proven to be pure and the other traits is showing. In that case the pure trait is proven recessive.

The second generation, on the other hand is the round that either provides success or failure. The offspring from generation one must be tested against a more recessive trait to uncover the hidden trait. The hidden trait is more often than not a different trait than the one we are looking for.

The proof is what we don't see in the offspring from generation one, and that is why it is not only important but necessary to test the generation one offspring.
This can be done from the first kitten box is dropped. Multiple kittens from the same pair with identical traits can indicate that one trait is dominant or recessive to another, but will never prove it, unless you pull a pure recessive trait.

[Arwen Swordthain]

We are only seeing your first round offspring. You aren't updating us on the hiddens from those boxes. Currently we have no idea what happened to the box you posted in september. Was it opened? What did it hide? Is the second box just to confirm results from the first? All we see are inconclusive tests posted as proofs with no follow up. Reven and Hap both report back weekly on how those follow up tests are going. Reven recently with wavy tail intil she got a result and Hap with british among others. This is more helpful than just breeding more boxes from the same pair.

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Cee, I think you don't need to post the mom and dad charts unless it proves purity. You only need to post the baby's chart once it pop's it's hid. Narrowing the field is done by popping the hid. Occasionally you do prove a parent's purity and that's whe you need to show the chart.

To go back in thread history to show what I mean

10/14 Ivy Lane posted a chart proving Galaxy Trip against Violet
Posted one chart
Mom had Galaxy Trip shown
Dad had Dry Olive shown
Baby has Violet shown

Proof Galaxy Trip is dominant to Violet
Only one chart needed since she popped the Mom's hid who was the target mating Violet and Galaxy Trip

10/16 Cee posted a second chart proving Galaxy Trip against Violet
Posted 3 charts
First Chart: Mom's pedigree chart. Mom shows Galaxy Trip.
This chart was not needed since it was enough to know Mom shows Galaxy Trip.
Second Chart: Dad's pedigree chart. Dad shows Violet.
This chart is needed because it shows purity of Dad's Violet.

Grandmom A=Andrea shows Pewter
Granddad A=Pikachu shows Genesis Bronze
Mom A = Shantay shows Genesis Bronze. Genesis Bronze is from Grandad A so hid is from Grandmom A. Hid has to be Grandmom Andrea's hid

Grandmom B =Andrea shows Pewter
Granddad B =Pega shows Genesis Bronze
Dad B = Pikachu shows Genesis Bronze. Genesis Bronze is from Grandad A so hid is from Grandmom A. Hid has to be Grandmom Andrea's hid

Baby from Mom A and Dad B = Igasho
Igasho shows Violet
Mom A Shantay and Dad B Pikachu have the same mom. They both receive the same mom's hid. Since both show Genesis Bronze, they both threw their hids to create Baby Igasho. Therefore Baby Igasho is "pure" and has Violet shown and hid.

So when you use Igasho in dominance testing, you show his chart to prove his purity.
Two charts needed for this proof: Dad's chart and Baby's chart. In this case you don't have to pop the hid.

Third Chart: Baby's pedigree chart. Baby shows Galaxy Trip.
In this case the chart is a good proof. Galaxy Trip is dominant to Violet because you provided the chart proving Dad's purity.


10/15 Alassariah posted a chart proving Galaxy Trip against Strawberry Bellini
Posted one chart
Mom had Double Ody Love shown
Dad had Strawberry Bellini shown
Baby has Violet shown
Since Violet is known dominant to Double Ody Love, Baby's shown has to be Dad's hid proving Galaxy Trip is recessive to Violet
Only one chart needed since she popped the Dad's hid who was the target mating Strawberry Bellini and Galaxy Trip

Did this run-through because popping the baby's hid also means you only need one-chart to establish the proof. One-chart proofs are the best.

Only if you need charts to prove a parent's purity, do you need to provide more than one chart. Proving purity can mean you don't have to pop the baby's hid. When you don' have purity, you have to pop the baby's hid.

That's the current range Strawberry Bellini - Violet

Fast forward to today
Cee's chart on Jade
Mom shows Galaxy Trip. Mom's chart does not establish purity. No need to show Mom's chart.
Dad shows Jade. Dad's chart does not establish purity. No need to show Dad's chart.
Baby shows Jade. Making Baby is step 1 in dominance testing. Popping Baby's hid is step 2 because Dad is established not to be pure. So you need to pop the hid to find out if Baby got Dad's shown or Dad's hid -- 50% chance either way.

in 90% of dominance testing, step 1 is nice but meaningless unless step 2 is also done -- popping the baby's hid is necessary. I had someone get mad at me when I had put them on a chart as testing Light Wash/Verdant and then later took them off. This was not Cee, btw. Another person. Cee has always been supersweet to me. I took the peson off because while they mated Light Wash and Verdant, they let the baby sit there and did not pop the hid. Later I forgot I had them on the chart for a month. Listed pairings were other people who were doing Light Wash/Verdant matings as well as the second step of popping the hids to keep pairings at 3 slots. Originally the pairing chart only had 3 slots for testers. The chart was constantly changing before as testers changed and proofs finished. It has stabilized now and only shows what proofs were finished since I "retired" from doing it
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1HPe4jpFyl7UJh5Eh9-GUilfRBIt0Vy2be8j2OXP6B-A

I even offered to the person who was letting their Lightwash/Verdant sit to partner and offered a more recessive cat as partner -- figured maybe they didn't want to do the kibble and this would 1/2 the cost. Saga site did provide kibble but sometimes it ran low. The person got mad and said I wanted the credit for the proof because they were no longer on the proving chart. Totally puzzled me because they let that 2 first-step kitten boxes sit out at Saga site for 2 months and never popped them. I just totally did not understand why they would not finish the proof after I suggested several times to pop the hid. They knew the parents might not be pure because I pointed it out to them by analyzing the parents' charts and they agreed. The person's anger was a surprise and hurtful. They still have not pop that baby's hid as far as I know which is really sad to do something halfway and not finish. It doesn't matter if a person gets mad, though. 90% of the time -- you have to Pop The Baby's Hid.

Reven and Arwen are always asking people to pop the hid because their experience, and mine and a lot of people's, is in dominance testing; you never know the hid of the baby. 50% of the time you get the wrong hid and have to rematch the parents and try again.

So we are looking forward to the result of your popping the Jade baby's hid, Cee. If you sold the baby already, maybe you could ask the current owner to post a chart if they pop the baby's hid. Pairing two targeted traits like Jade and Galaxy Trip to create the baby is the first step. A lot of people do the first step and think they are finished. They are half done. It is not narrowing the field or a proof until the second step "Pop The Baby's Hid"is done.

[Arwen Swordthain]

My Fancie Purple Diamond girl I hoped hid Galaxy Trip threw out Odyssey Bellini which was the eye I was using to pull the trip so she hides mums hidden dry olive instead of the Trip. Thankfully I still have 2 more boxes so I'll open another and try again.
In the meantime if anyone has use of a girl showing Fancie Purple Diamond she'll be sat in my cattery for a couple weeks.

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(10-24-2016 03:02 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote:  My Fancie Purple Diamond girl I hoped hid Galaxy Trip threw out Odyssey Bellini which was the eye I was using to pull the trip so she hides mums hidden dry olive instead of the Trip. Thankfully I still have 2 more boxes so I'll open another and try again.
In the meantime if anyone has use of a girl showing Fancie Purple Diamond she'll be sat in my cattery for a couple weeks.

Decided not to mess about and opened them both. Fingers crossed one provides an answer in 2 weeks time.