Discovering hidden traits in kittens started using recessive traits!!

[Kayleigh McMillan]

Sadly I am not in Draco & Theo's timezone -.-
I mean sometimes despite my timezone I joined their auction and it is hilarious, fun, lighthearted and very educational

P.s. Everyone who does an attempt to help an other person, which many do, I applaud and I'm glad you also want to play a role in this, Fabio.
I am sure many learn from your snap and it doesn't matter how or from who we learn as long as we do.
Teaching is done by many volunteerly, via mentor programs and all just for the joy of sharing the kitty fun.
It is indeed not new info but it is very important and info which is freely shared on forums, classes, auctions and via one on ones by many.

[fabioazevedo Oh]

Test completed!

After confirming the other traits in the previous round, we went to discover the hidden tail. I changed the recessive couple to another with tail posh.





Analyzing the picture!

- Posh tail, recessive , forcing , Sassy tail , come out.
- White whiskers color, dominant on the whiskers Blonde Streak hidden in started.


Tail confirmed this round. We have a new tail SASSY discovered.




Completed the test result in the following characteristics:
- Fur: Bengal Silver
- Eyes: Tapestry Royale
- Shade: Flair
- Tail: SASSY
- Ears: Rounded
- Whiskers Color: Blonde Streaked
- Whiskers Shape: Mysterious




For those that are being helped with this topic, I have helped. I'll try to post more examples like this, for, somehow, help those in need. This type of material is excellent for new creators. The truth is that many people with more time than me KC comes for help.


For those who have nothing to contribute to the topic, and just posted, "this is not new," yes, you're right. KC there to 3 years. So, anyone have a time KC bigger than mine, certainly knows. Just sad for interactions, which only contributed to the chaos in the topic. And everyone who read the topic, you can see who, in fact, wanted to contribute, and who just wanted to create chaos. If this has been discussed many times, show the topics, pasting links, pasting text. So you guys will have to base their arguments. Just say, "This is not new," just shows how much you guys are uninterested that this information is replicated, or maybe you guys are not without patience to help others.

I apologize if I have generalized about 'old breeders keep their secrets hidden.' This is not true. I see many people who willingly help to new ones.

Thanks Anna, thank Callie Cline, thanks Draco, by their intersections, and beautiful stories.

Thanks Sky, Bengta Thank you, my students, among others. Hugs to you guys.

I leave here a 'hi' to all that might be in my cattery and have the opportunity to do one CAtteryTur where I show the work done.

Thanks, Ethereal Hurricane for your image viruses, questioning about 80%. So, do you have contrary evidence, my evidence showing 80% are worth.

Thanks to everyone who somehow understood the purpose of this topic, to help others, an easy way to work with her ??started, and not wait for luck. Because, I do not believe in luck. I believe in numbers. I believe that two kittens, purposely placed together, bring the desired results quickly.

I apologize for translation errors generated by google translator, and well observed by some.

Always remembering Audrey, unique person, English language, which is willing to go in my cattery, when I was totally nooby. Never talked about testing started, because I was very new in KC. One time when my cats were L $ 50. Everyone went menagerie. I prefer this way. Before you buy cats, learn everything I needed, and start from scratch. My first tests started, was Easter 2013 and I did not mind spending money to learn in practice how to do. My first tests were only fur, and eyes.

Thank Jolita, another creative, which makes testing started in large numbers, like mine, for allowing me, when I was learning, see your cattery. And somehow try to understand his work.

I greatly appreciate Saga, by his letters, and for your tables. Sad to know that people do not like to read.

As the saying goes: "Let's turn this lemon into lemonade."

An opportunity arose for me to create my textures, where people can learn by watching. And you can create this kind of topic with visuals, for people to learn.

[bigbritchz Topaz]

i feel like a ancient reading all of this what the heck is a "OP" all these fancy dancy abbreviations !! hahaha

[fabioazevedo Oh]

(05-25-2014 08:21 PM)PrettyPoizen Resident Wrote:  Hi:

I just want to chime in here for a second. I understand what Fabao is saying and what he is doing - besides being so gracious and generous with his time and sharing information for the benefit of new breeders. He is applying genetics from RL to pixel pets which I think are very well scripted lol. For one to think that the 80% tendency is applicable as much to the one who buys 10 cats as it does to the one who buys 50, or 100 is to not consider that statistics of All kinds require an adequate sampling. It may well be that say 50% of all kitties have a hidden new recessive...but that does not mean that if i buy 10, that percentage would apply. To maximize my efforts here or RL, I believe inbreeding or tight linebreeding will nail down the traits I want and expose the hidden ones i may or may not want. And I also know that the use of recessives to *encourage* other recessives to reveal themselves is a very important step. It may not work the first time, or even the third or ever. But that doesnt mean his points are invalid.

I met Fabao not long ago and I was as impressed with his professional approach to this as I was with the fact that he Takes The Time to share what he has learned. I do not get the impression that he is saying he is the discovered of the Mendelian Genetics. He is essentially trying to simplify and put into kitty logic what he can from his understanding of genetic principles...and as long as there is a "gene pool", there will always be a gray area where we get surprised especially in most cases the breeder has no clue of the pedigree beyond grandparents. At least in RL i could trace my peds back 8-12 generations in a minute. Here with KC we often see new breeders make choices depending on phenotype and not considering whatever genotype they can and cannot see....

Just my 2 cents...and my thanks for those who take time to sit here and post and teach and help others when I am sure they could just as easily be keeping knowledge to themselves so they can be the big fish in the small bowl. Thank you all for your contributions here!

Hey PrettyPoizen , good to see you here.
Thanks for your 2 cents. Excellent reading and explanation of the 80%.
If the KC sold 5,000 kittens Easter, a sample of 50 kittens, it excelent to have data like this 80%.

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(05-25-2014 07:53 PM)Bengta Resident Wrote:  I have spent many hours with Fabio in his Cattery and he has taught me everything I know. I have been breeding for just 6 months now and have been getting some amazing results using Fabio's techniques. I did testing on 10 Easter kittens, my first tests ever. I used the rules that Fabio has taught me and I've been pleased with the results. Using only 10 kittens, I have already found one new trait, the Rounded Boo Boo. I have also found one kitten that hides Pandie Fawn, Dark Chocolate, and Light Wave Whisker! In just two rounds of testing!
Fabio has also shown me how to breed recessives: I now have three 8T Siamese Chocolate Torties and will have 9T soon. And these torties are not just any 8T's: they have Ody Bel, Porc, Curious and Shorty, MOF, and wait, Latte! And to make this even better,these 8T torties came from two kittens that do not have tortie visible!
Thank you fabio for many hours of time you have given me!!

Hey Bengta, good to see here,
I was so impressed with their torties 8t. omg. congratulations. Amazing work.
and congratulations on having found new eras Rounded Boo Boo.
Excellent, Excellent, Excellent, student.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(05-26-2014 11:26 AM)bigbritchz Topaz Wrote:  i feel like a ancient reading all of this what the heck is a "OP" all these fancy dancy abbreviations !! hahaha

LOL you know I had the same I though what the heck is an OP later much later I figured out this means Original Poster xD
I thought it was OPerator but I considered that a somewhat too heavy title for a forum thread starter

[Tolla Crisp]

(05-25-2014 08:59 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  

(05-25-2014 07:36 PM)Skylar Sass Wrote:  After reading through this post I just wanted to say that it should not matter if you find that a post is redundant because there is already "enough" information. People never stop learning and there is never to much information on a subject. I applaud Fabio for always trying to help others and in NO WAY did I find him being pompous. Yes I am replying to several people in this post at one time. I also believe there is a technique to pulling more traits out from the specials and it is not just all luck. Some yes, others no. I don't believe it is using just the most recessive but certain recessive traits that are closer to the actual hidden traits. Just my opinion and I surely do not know as much as Fabio does, or some of you more experienced breeders. However, I do find it ridiculous to ridicule another for their thoughts, especially when they are trying to be helpful. Now I know some of you will say you didn't but it's actually quite obvious.

You clearly didn't read then (it's okay, it happens quite often). The first 6 replies or so were people saying "yes, this is true, it works, thanks for posting". Mixed with Fabio claiming he created this by himself over 6 months of research. Then, an outlandish claim was made that just 80% of all new cats wont hide hidden traits. Meaning, you have a 1 in 5 chance to get a new trait! It could very well be close to that, but I doubt it, and a sample of 50 cats isn't enough to claim it, just as a sample of 8 cats isn't. Luck is a factor.

Secondly, at the bottom of his post which really doesn't have that much hard data other than a picture, is slightly misleading, and would clearly rely on extra information given, Fabio asks:

(05-13-2014 02:28 PM)fabioazevedo Oh Wrote:  Let's turn this "Normal Threads" in a "Important Threads".

Why does this thread need to be an important one? As more than one person has confirmed this should be 'common knowledge' to those who seek breeding information, it's not original. The information presented can already be found in one of the 'important' threads (which, btw the way, also comes with even more important information and breeding tips, mind you).

If your only argument here is that it should be an important thread because people don't know how to read, use the search, ask questions, or all 3 of those, then yes, by all means, please make this an important thread.

Lastly, no one was attacking Fabio at first, he got defensive when people claimed his idea wasn't original. I'm not some 'forum cop', but I do believe people should at least search for a solution, or try to find information on their own first. It's common courtesy to the people who share information for them to not have to repeat it 5000 times. Having 50 threads at the top of the page with half of them repeating the same information, likewise, is counter-productive.

So once again, thank you Fabio for your thread, another confirmation that this method does work, if you wish to use it.

Etheral, Please try not to be so negative about Fabio's hard work. Do you know how many hours he spends in his cattery? Do you know how many hours he spends just helping others? I see him help many new breeders like myself, all the time. And what does he ask in return? Nothing. He is not claiming to have invented any special methodology but rather sharing his experience and results. Yes, he does deserve credit and applause for his time and efforts, as do all the breeders that work so hard and achieve great results. If they did not spend all their time, efforts, and lindens as they do, we would not reap the rewards of the new traits that are discovered.
Bravo Fabio! You go! xoxoxox many thanks, Cilla

[Draco Nacht]

*hugs* Anna and Kay! Thank you for your kind words

We still love doing the auctions and having fun. We get so excited seeing new traits even still!

What I've always done when I got stressed out or upset about what people say or do in the community is to just look into those cute little kitty faces and remember that's what we're doing it for. They're little works of art that we get to interact with and customize. Sometimes we can make a little money, sometimes not. But I've definitely made a lot of friends and adorable kitties along the way.

It's also fun to me to see new people come along and discover the magic for themselves. I remember the rush of getting out recessive traits for the first time. Heck, I still get a thrill when I get a new trait out of a starter, or a line I've had forever suddenly busts out with something I didn't expect!

It's good to have new people with the energy and drive to carry the torch to tell even newer breeders how it works.

[Morgan Trevellion]

I am so glad for this post, I am a visual learner so seeing it in pictures helps me bunches. Thank you for this thread

[Adana Ember]

I for one am greatly encouraged by fabio's post. I have a whole cattery full of kitty boxes with mostly starter traits and no clear idea what to do with them. These graphics have inspired me to take a closer look at them and find ways to reveal whatever traits they may have hidden. I was on the verge of stuffing the lot of them in the menagerie, but now I think I'll try and work them a bit.

Thank you, fabioazevedo Oh, I'll be sending you the bill for all the kibble and milk I have to buy now!

[Vrem Vaniva]

This is neat! I love the use of these very clear screenshots for the lessons -- and I soooooo laughed when I saw Kayla's Wavy Whisker example I have a similar pedigree with a long line of white mysterious whiskers suddenly popping out with frazzled.
I would maybe quibble over terminology, Fabio, when you say the recessive traits "force" the starter's hidden traits to come out. As I understand it (and I am right, hehe), the strong partner does not "force" the starter to give up its hidden traits -- but rather, the strong partner's recessive traits "allow the starter's hidden traits to show on the baby, if starter happens to throw its hidden traits." That yellow bunny did an awesome thing there, throwing 8 hidden traits all at one time! This seldom happens. It was just wonderful that you had chosen a mate who was "ready to catch what was thrown" -- whose shown traits were recessive enough that the baby was able to show all but the tail. Great combination of skill and luck! One waits for the luck ... but then, skill has to be there, active, when the good luck does come.