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Full Version: More Cancellations .... what's going on breeders ??
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Thanks, Ivy. I wondered briefly if we need a group to just chat about cats, but I think we'd run into the same issue of either having no "advertising" at all or getting completely over run with spam for every kitty or event that's listed on every other group. The forum is good because it allows us to come read about things on our own schedule and pick and choose what we're interested in.

I admit that I could have missed stuff here because I've been distracted by some other breedables lately. I started feeling overwhelmed to the point of having to step back and think about how much, and in what ways, I wanted to be involved in each community, as well as which ones I cared about trying to learn to breed in a certain way/trait-up or sell, etc., and wasn't reading or posting as much here myself. However, most other breedables don't have the wonderful forums and support that KittyCats gives us, so it also brings home an appreciation for all that we do have here.
I've been thinking about it: the pros and cons of of a non-partisan Kitty chat group - for chat - not sales, that would not be affiliated with any market. I would not want it to pull people away from the Addicts group, but I don't think it would; people have multiple windows/groups open all the time. I would want it to be a place where events could be announced, i.e., "auction in 10 minutes, people" - because I do think auctions should be promoted. But there would have to be a limit on how many times an event could be announced or the spam would be unendurable. Perhaps that would take the form of a ban on copy/pasting announcements into chat. I would like to see very light moderation on the sort of topics discussed: people shouldn't be afraid to mention linden amounts or pricing or discuss the pricing on traits seen at auction lately. I think that information is something that's often hidden from people who can't make it to auctions - not deliberately, but it just doesn't get seen so much. Maybe it does on groups that are set up to discuss pricing. But of course, no ad hominem attacks on people, markets, etc.

I used to moderate a group called Fashion Consolidated Cafe, and everything had to be chat. Absolutely nothing an ad. But you could say a lot conversationally and that worked pretty well.
Thanks, Callie. I did realize after the fact that one of times that I was IMed for talking too much I had mentioned linden amounts without thinking, but it wasn't meant as advertising, and the IM didn't say that it was because I mentioned lindens. If I had been thinking, I could have phrased it differently, and I do apologize for that...but thinking back on the discussion, it also points out exactly the need for the kind of group Ivy mentioned.

(That was NOT the Pinkie conversation, which really was just joking about an event after that event had happened and with no mention of amounts whatsoever. That was the third time in two days that I had my hand slapped in the Addicts group which is enough to make anyone feel unwanted.)

Ivy, I know that I'd love a non-partisan discussion group where we could talk about things like how much something went for at an auction, or whether a trait is hot. But to talk about things - not just get ad after ad - and it sounds like you've got a great idea about how to do it.

Maybe allow only two announcements for a specific auction or event, and they have to be in chat... one an hour or two in advance to remind people to set up and get ready, then another as the event is starting.

And doing them in chat, and not as notices makes so much sense. That way, if you're on and interested, you'll see it (and it's a much more gentle reminder than getting hit with a bunch of TP requests), but if not, you won't get hit by all the spam when you log on after the event.

Hmm... thinking it might be good to start another thread on this topic and to ask if there are any other groups out there like this already so as not to duplicate.

It would also be nice to have a good relationship with the Addicts group. I wonder if it would be even vaguely possible for them to say, "If you want to talk about that, you might try <Insert New Group Name Here>". The inverse would be: "I don't know the answer to [that KittyCat issue], but one of the CSRs on the KittyCats Addicts group should be able to help you." I used to own and moderate an announcements-only YahooGroup for consolidating RL event announcements in our local community. There was a discussion group that was developed separately, and once we discovered each other, the owner of it and I decided we would make them sister groups. I'd refer people to the other group for discussions on news, etc. that came up on my group, and they would refer people to my group for a more comprehensive list of announcements without the chatter thereby allowing each group to hold it's focus and hopefully benefiting the community as a whole.
Frankly I quit visting auctions because frequently there is no "better" quality sold than we can find at one shack or the other where we don't have to pay the high bid.
I don't know the hot days seems to be over or so.
Also the tendensy to pull new traits with an ultra recessive makes a cat to me less valuable to work with.
I buy that specific trait and not the hidden -.-

But as the OP says it is a bit rude to not show up if you won or bought a panel...wow it is just a sort of commitment and common courtesy.
Unless of course winning a panel is something one gets wether they have assigned for that to win or not.
RL reasons or failing Internet connections just happen though I obviously not mean that to be rude.
I honestly don't mean this to be as rude as it will sound. These are just my experiences and observations.

I agree with what Kay said about new traits hiding rec. It seems to me that ppl are out for just a quick buck, and not taking the time to sell a quality trait. Many don't understand the idea either. One friend told me that was how she was told to breed. Use the rec to move the new dom trait. And I have noticed some try to hide the rec trait farther back and not open the pedigree all the way up, maybe to hide it? I know some use alts to breed so you can't see far enough back to see what is really going on. I think this hurts the market and the auctions too. Seems unless it's a very rec trait, you just don't know what you're paying for anymore.

One reason I don't like auctions, are the ones that seem to bid a kitty up. A kitty will sit on a panel with no one bidding on it. Sometimes I bid because I feel bad for the person, a no sale is kinda of embarrassing and a disappointment for some. So if I had the lindens I would bid. I've had this happen at a few auctions I had been to. All of a sudden someone else outbids me, then another outbids them, then silence as they wait for me to bid again. The kitty on the panel is a kitty I could get for half the price in a shop so I'm not jumping on it. I just thought, ooooook enjoy your kitty and left.

I think another turn off for putting a kitty in auction is when the auctioneer tells you that your kitty is not good enough to sell. On the one hand they may be right. But on the other hand it can insulting, and breeds insecurity. They're trying to make sure you have a kitty that will sell for a number of reasons. They don't want you to be disappointed, and they don't want panels full of kitties that we can buy in shops cheaper. But I think it's kind of a turn off to be told what kitty you can put up for sale, and what price to start. So now a lot of ppl are afraid to put kitties in because they are afraid they're not good enough. I also want to add that I had a kitty that was *deemed unworthy but that another one was good enough. The one deemed worthy was a no sale, but someone I was chatting with bought the other kitty that wasn't worthy. No offense, but auctioneers don't always know what is best. That person thought I was new, because I was never a big auction goer.

Another reason ppl may not be putting kitties on panels that they bought or won. (and I had done this before) They get a panel before their kitties have made boxes, hoping the get a good one to put in, because getting a panel can be very competitive. But as we all know, kitties don't like to cooperate. lol So now you have a panel and no kitty that will be *deemed worthy of an auction.

Another turn off for me, is seeing a starting bid waaaaaaaaaaaay higher than it's actually worth. Or higher than anyone would pay. If the kitty is priced more reasonable, and it's a good one, and ppl have the lindens to bid, they will fight for it. If you end up with less than you think the kitty is worth, then you at least made some kibble money. To me, my kitties are worth billions of lindens. Doesn't mean anyone is going to pay that for them. rofl A well bred new trait is worth a lot of money, don't get me wrong. That is the one time I do believe a kitty should have a high starting price.

Another thing I see as a problem. Too many auctions. Yes we are all on different time zones and schedules, but do we really need an auction every second of the day? There aren't enough special one of a kind kitties to go in every auction. And not enough lindens in enough pockets to buy at all of them. With all the advertising for all the auctions there are, I just stopped paying attention. I used to try and keep up with them to see what was out there and prices. Now it's just, oh look another auction, *click and close ad, leave group, close page. I don't hear about the special auctions for charity and so forth until after they happened, because we're so flooded with auction notices that I turned them all off and don't get them anymore.

Auctions used to be a fun one of a kind event. People would clear their schedules if they could, so they could go to them. Now they're a dime a dozen. I'm not downplaying the work some of the auctioneers put into them at all. I love the way the one auctioneer, (apologies for forgetting name) takes the time to make gorgeous pictures of the kitties she's selling. They actually make me want to buy the kitties. (if only I had the lindens lol) She seems genuinely friendly and extremely professional. I'm sure many are. But with so many, I just can't keep track. Like the secondary market, there is just too much competition, and I think I'm not the only one burnt out on them.
(08-24-2015 08:49 AM)Devilness Chant Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly don't mean this to be as rude as it will sound. These are just my experiences and observations.

I agree with what Kay said about new traits hiding rec. It seems to me that ppl are out for just a quick buck, and not taking the time to sell a quality trait. Many don't understand the idea either. One friend told me that was how she was told to breed. Use the rec to move the new dom trait. And I have noticed some try to hide the rec trait farther back and not open the pedigree all the way up, maybe to hide it? I know some use alts to breed so you can't see far enough back to see what is really going on. I think this hurts the market and the auctions too. Seems unless it's a very rec trait, you just don't know what you're paying for anymore.

One reason I don't like auctions, are the ones that seem to bid a kitty up. A kitty will sit on a panel with no one bidding on it. Sometimes I bid because I feel bad for the person, a no sale is kinda of embarrassing and a disappointment for some. So if I had the lindens I would bid. I've had this happen at a few auctions I had been to. All of a sudden someone else outbids me, then another outbids them, then silence as they wait for me to bid again. The kitty on the panel is a kitty I could get for half the price in a shop so I'm not jumping on it. I just thought, ooooook enjoy your kitty and left.

I think another turn off for putting a kitty in auction is when the auctioneer tells you that your kitty is not good enough to sell. On the one hand they may be right. But on the other hand it can insulting, and breeds insecurity. They're trying to make sure you have a kitty that will sell for a number of reasons. They don't want you to be disappointed, and they don't want panels full of kitties that we can buy in shops cheaper. But I think it's kind of a turn off to be told what kitty you can put up for sale, and what price to start. So now a lot of ppl are afraid to put kitties in because they are afraid they're not good enough. I also want to add that I had a kitty that was *deemed unworthy but that another one was good enough. The one deemed worthy was a no sale, but someone I was chatting with bought the other kitty that wasn't worthy. No offense, but auctioneers don't always know what is best. That person thought I was new, because I was never a big auction goer.

Another reason ppl may not be putting kitties on panels that they bought or won. (and I had done this before) They get a panel before their kitties have made boxes, hoping the get a good one to put in, because getting a panel can be very competitive. But as we all know, kitties don't like to cooperate. lol So now you have a panel and no kitty that will be *deemed worthy of an auction.

Another turn off for me, is seeing a starting bid waaaaaaaaaaaay higher than it's actually worth. Or higher than anyone would pay. If the kitty is priced more reasonable, and it's a good one, and ppl have the lindens to bid, they will fight for it. If you end up with less than you think the kitty is worth, then you at least made some kibble money. To me, my kitties are worth billions of lindens. Doesn't mean anyone is going to pay that for them. rofl A well bred new trait is worth a lot of money, don't get me wrong. That is the one time I do believe a kitty should have a high starting price.

Another thing I see as a problem. Too many auctions. Yes we are all on different time zones and schedules, but do we really need an auction every second of the day? There aren't enough special one of a kind kitties to go in every auction. And not enough lindens in enough pockets to buy at all of them. With all the advertising for all the auctions there are, I just stopped paying attention. I used to try and keep up with them to see what was out there and prices. Now it's just, oh look another auction, *click and close ad, leave group, close page. I don't hear about the special auctions for charity and so forth until after they happened, because we're so flooded with auction notices that I turned them all off and don't get them anymore.

Auctions used to be a fun one of a kind event. People would clear their schedules if they could, so they could go to them. Now they're a dime a dozen. I'm not downplaying the work some of the auctioneers put into them at all. I love the way the one auctioneer, (apologies for forgetting name) takes the time to make gorgeous pictures of the kitties she's selling. They actually make me want to buy the kitties. (if only I had the lindens lol) She seems genuinely friendly and extremely professional. I'm sure many are. But with so many, I just can't keep track. Like the secondary market, there is just too much competition, and I think I'm not the only one burnt out on them.

Dev I Heart you! :-)
I won't do a reply cause I think twice was enough. lol But I Heart you too Kay. hugzzzzz
I've been breeding for 8 months and going wayyy over budget on food and all, and I still don't feel confident enough to put my kitties into auction because I very rarely have a 9T cat. I have only a handful of 8T cats, but most of my cats are 6T or less including my fun sized. I accidently sold a 9+1 scotty for 500 at my store the other day. That would have been a good auction cat, and i think the buyer has already left to the bahamas. Tongue

I agree about the autions being elitist, but I use the term in a different way. I have never felt unwelcomed at an auction, nor has anyone been unkind, but there is a certain air of guitar shapes wait at the door.

So I encourage autioneers and event managers to mix it up with different themes, you can be creative. for example, auction a cat with the best hiding traits, all history included (more than the website pedigree) or auction only retired traits, or auction only genesis furs but all other traits allowed etc. you never know what someone is looking for, you can get rid of more cats and people can find cats they never could buy before.
(08-26-2015 04:47 AM)Lana Mathilde Wrote: [ -> ]I've been breeding for 8 months and going wayyy over budget on food and all, and I still don't feel confident enough to put my kitties into auction because I very rarely have a 9T cat. I have only a handful of 8T cats, but most of my cats are 6T or less including my fun sized. I accidently sold a 9+1 scotty for 500 at my store the other day. That would have been a good auction cat, and i think the buyer has already left to the bahamas. Tongue

I agree about the autions being elitist, but I use the term in a different way. I have never felt unwelcomed at an auction, nor has anyone been unkind, but there is a certain air of guitar shapes wait at the door.

So I encourage autioneers and event managers to mix it up with different themes, you can be creative. for example, auction a cat with the best hiding traits, all history included (more than the website pedigree) or auction only retired traits, or auction only genesis furs but all other traits allowed etc. you never know what someone is looking for, you can get rid of more cats and people can find cats they never could buy before.


don't matter if you have "just" a 6 trait.

it's not needed have a 9 trait cat always and only.

and don't exist 9+1 traits..

people should bring in auction, and in shops, beautiful cats, interesting cats, new/valuable/different traits.. cats forwhich they put a personal effort, other than buy two 9 traits cats and put them together whitout a sense.

the kittens will not pay your bills, except if you discover a very recessive trait and new, if sell thousands of cats and if you are the creator.

hunt for lindens means inflate the market, make cats (and efforts used to breed them) totally worthless, fill the shops of the same cats (who come from the same breeders)

my thought is: learn to breed cats. learn how breeding. learn to enjoy your efforts and your achievements. and then sell what you like. it does not matter if you have a few traits cat, it does not matter if it is not the last cat just discovered. it 'does not matter.
what matters is that you like it, that is "nice", that is "worked".
Originally, auctions were meant to be elite. And I also don't mean this to be rude either.

It used to be we only had a few auctions a week. Auctions were meant to sell those new traits, special kitties, so forth. The ones you didn't find a lot of in shops. They were the elite kitties. That is why I said, there just aren't enough special kitties to go in so many auctions and not enough lindens to buy in all the auctions there are now.

So now, instead of a larger group of ppl going to an auction. Ppl have split off to certain ones. That's why you don't always get those big turn outs. Ppl not bothering to show up. The same ppl buying and selling each others kitties. Ppl like me that are just burnt out on the whole idea. And so forth.

Lana, Don't get discouraged. I've had some bad experiences, but there are nice auctioneers that will kindly tell you if they can sell your kitty or not. Don't take it personal and keep trying. A kitty doesn't have to be a 9t to be a worthy kitty. lol
I personally love both eye shapes and pupil sizes. Some don't like shades on kitties.
If you ask someone and they're a bit rude about it, ask someone else till you find that person that knows how to treat your feelings with respect. And when you find that kind person, ask them what they're looking for to sell in their auction. In the mean time, enjoy your kitties.
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