KittyCatS! Community Forum

(06-04-2014 04:16 PM)Ivy Norsk Wrote: [ -> ]it's a complicated topic, but I will simply say right now that People like to give KittyCats as gifts. I like to give KittyCats as gifts.
But if you said pay so much minimum this wouldn't work. And if you said, minimum OR Free, then people could game the system.

At some point when a cat is bought/sold or traded it passes through the inventory. There is no way around that. They can be tracked or we would not be able to get them back. They belong temporarily to kittycats when they are transferred as the files get transferred. If there was a monitoring system that allowed for transfer only if the min was met then the cats would have to start selling at that min. Lets say for the price you would buy a ZERO trait cat at kittycats shop.

This is 2015 . They can track when I take my next bathroom break (trust me i wanted to use harsher words) They can track space craft into the outer darkness of space. This is property we are talking about. Like land. We own these creatures. They are not real..they are computer programs... for heaven sakes we can track live animals why not track the cats. Or licence the buyers...have a code they ahve to enter when a cat goes from their inventory to another's...

There are always ways. I am not saying it would happen tomorrow but lets say 6months from now. are you friggin kidding me. If i can brainstorm this many ways to track something in 5 minutes software and designing wizards ought to be able to track the min price on a friggin cat.

There is no excuse. They do it in the real world on products much more valuable and much more difficult to track...why can't they find a solution. It's gonna bite them in the ass when people stop breeding and stop buying food and word gets out that the market is dead and there is no real reason to breed because its only the people that find the fur and for the first 2 weeks that its valuable.

Im mean jesus...i bought snowcreams..to pull to sell. When i bought them 2 weeks ago they were double what they are now...how can i make it if im paying twice as much as im selling for. So now everyone is over snowcreams and we are on to abby chocolates...torties are becoming a thing of the past ...or soon will be.

The value of any object is what one is willing to pay for it. Period. If nobody wants to pay for the cats...and I have to pay for food and milk and the store and the advertising and the bloody breeding cats themselves...there is no point whatsoever to the voyage except to get seasick. The reason no one wants to pay for them is because they are not even valued by the makers and breeders of the damned things.

OMG... i get so frustrated...and i don't see how its not possible.

HOW about... a Kitty Cats market
like SL Market
everyone gets a store...and the pice is monitored...not the top end...the bottom line ...thats all i care about is the bottom line.

I don't care if you want to pay 22k for a cat. I do care that you can't fork out 600l for a cat that cost me 2 to 3000 to produce at the end of the day.

I think there is a solution but people have to be open minded and not pigheaded about the fact that there NEEEDDDS to be one.

Anyway..i need to put the damned soap box away again...
bloody hell.

LOL You just gave me the first chuckle of the day Vrem.

(06-05-2014 12:40 AM)Vrem Vaniva Wrote: [ -> ]I think it would be interesting if KittyCats could somehow create an Online Marketplace where we could list our kittens to be sold through them! Make gigantic website ... where shoppers could "let your fingers do the walkin'" and use filters to find the sought-after kitties, and then select from a list of available ones. (To make it super-easy, you could tick a checkbox on the Pedigree page saying "allow this kitty to be listed for sale on the monster kitty market" -- and KC could take a 5 percent cut, as linden labs does on the SL Marketplace. ) It's the only way I could think of that would allow our home-bred, traited kitties to be sold under the aegis of KittyCatS. At that point it might even be feasible to institute a "minimum price" thing as Deianira ( doubledareme) proposes. But KittyCats has carefully left the Secondary Market to us to work out for ourselves, so it seems unlikely that they'd want to undertake such a thing.
Meanwhile, some kitty sims do offer pricing guidelines -- even minimum price rules -- for cats sold on their land.
How about a nice ... free speech movement, peace , love , happiness, Mario Savio kind of thing?
BOYCOTT too-cheap kittens! (Just as some of us heeded the calls to protect migrant farm worker labor ... Don't buy Grapes! Don't buy Lettuce! -- and then when a representative of Florida OJ made gay-bashing slurs ... Don't Buy Orange Juice!) ) If you ever gave up grapes, lettuce, or orange juice for altruistic reasons ... maybe you can pass up a kitten bargain. (I am wondering ... am i strong enough to do that?)

You do realize, I hope, that to boycott someone you need to name names. Since such an action would be detrimental to your victim, I'm fairly certain it would be considered a violation of the LL ToS. But, if you think your price fixing scheme is that important to you, I'm sure you won't mind having your avatar banished from Second Life in support of it.

KittyCatS would be in violation of US law if they implemented your price fixing scheme. So, you're right, if they're wise, they'll stay away from it.

(06-01-2014 10:08 PM)PrettyPoizen Resident Wrote: [ -> ]Hello Deer Thistle! Happy to hear from you. I am looking and maybe the term "degrade" is being misunderstood...another interesting thing about online communication is the lack of 'face to face', which often leads to misreading. The term "degrade" by definition includes: "to lower in character or quality, to reduce in amount, strength, intensity, etc. or in reference to topography the wearing down of a surface by nature". By profession, I am a College English teacher and have taught online courses a few times. So I do understand the problems of online discussions and connotations some words have...and trust me, when English was not a student's first language it made for some Very lively discussions LOL.

Yeah, Deer needs all the help she can get with English. I'd happily pay for some tutoring lessons for her. I have trouble communicating with her so often it's very frustrating.

I always have to define words for her because she always misunderstands or seems to think they have different meanings, when usually they only have one, very specific meaning, that no other person could possibly misunderstand.

Like just yesterday, I was having a spirited discussion with her, and I said a word they complete threw her off. I think it was 'there' or something like that. Anyways, yeah, any help would be appreciated. ^___^

‘DoubleDare’ Wrote:The value of any object is what one is willing to pay for it. Period.

I agree. Absolutely. It’s all about supply and demand.

‘DoubleDare’ Wrote:The reason no one wants to pay for them is because they are not even valued by the makers and breeders of the damned things.
….
I don't care if you want to pay 22k for a cat. I do care that you can't fork out 600l for a cat that cost me 2 to 3000 to produce at the end of the day.

I disagree. The makers value them, but they aren’t buying other cats because they already have that cat, or they are already working on that cat. Or they are already spending 2 to 3000L to produce their own cat.
Supply and Demand.

Let us be clear. There is a gross oversupply of cats on the grid.
GROSS. OVERSUPPLY. OF CATS.
(That nobody is buying. Which leads to desperation and firesales.)
Price fixing will not change the supply of cats on the grid.

Rather than institute price controls - which have many problems - I would urge KittyCats! to tackle the issue from the back end of the market - the menagerie end.

Get rid of the supply of cats on the grid. Sweeten the menagerie WAY up.

Right now, I take 150L to be approximate cost for a box (without milk and etc.). Menagerie pays, what?, 20L, 30L? Of course people would rather do firesales at 100L which is -50 of cost, than menagerie which is -120L or so of cost. That cost has to be added onto the price of a cat which will sell for people to break even. And people know that isn’t working out too well.

I would urge 2 things:

•Raise the price given for turning in a menagerie kitty. How much? I don’t know. I know KittyCats doesn’t want to subsidize cat food purchases in cattery, but they may need to do more to make the market thrive.

•Instead of having so many LE collectibles with new traits on the front end, have LE collectibles (without new traits - heck, maybe even with new traits) on the menagerie end. Limited Edition. So that people would have to turn in cats to menagerie Right Now, to get that kitty. If enough of this happened, then some older traits might actually become rare and the prices on the “retro” cats might start to go Up instead of them being worthless.

This would not likely change the rapid rate of devaluation of new traits, but it might compensate by shoring up the old traits.

By reading this topic, an idea came to me.

Many want to have control of prices, imposing its logic over others.
Others abhor the idea of another, saying what they should do, or how the kitten should be sold.

I applaud those who say, "the kitten valley, what the other wants to pay."

An idea for the subject matter would be the development of a system called "Suggested Price". This system would have all the characteristics of kittens found, then just build the kitten (fur, eyes, tail, etcs), and the system behind a value as a suggestion.

Each trait should be identified, with year, and collection, he found.

Also put this system, if the kitten is: box, 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, 120 days, over 120 days.

Due to the 'target audience' be different, also enter this table, names of some islands where one can see exactly how the kitten valley on the island "X" on the island "Y", or on the island "Z" . The system must be impartial.

Representatives of each island, you must update this pricing system, applied on his island, perhaps weekly, fortnightly, monthly. Decided later. Everyone must contribute.

People can 'vote' (give stars) for traits that they like best. To define the most popular trait.

Anyway, all this information can help to contribute to the pricing.

Always taking into account that it is only a "suggested price", "Local Consultation", something you can decide whether to follow or not. For those who like to price list, follow the system, and it will be ok. For those who do not like, do not follow, and it'll be ok, too.

The maximum rule should be maintained: "anyone can sell 'your kitten,' or 'your work' for the price you want."

This includes, gifts for friends, kittens for pet, fire sales 100L, menagerie kittens, auctions, stores, new trait, etc..

Never a person may be discriminated against or banned for it. Because, the kittens are SL objects, and its owner has the freedom to do whatever you want with it. This freedom, SL, gives to all.

We all want to play with KC. Just respect the differences.

I apologize to everyone for the errors of translation, the translator google.

---

(06-05-2014 10:23 AM)Ivy Norsk Wrote: [ -> ]•Raise the price given for turning in a menagerie kitty. How much? I don’t know. I know KittyCats doesn’t want to subsidize cat food purchases in cattery, but they may need to do more to make the market thrive.

Excellent idea, DoubleDare.


I would add:

- Price of food and milk down.
- Kitten sent menagerie, cost $ 100K or $ 200K.
- Increasing the freebies kittens in menagerie. Not only, Tigers, already well worn and familiar. (I saw a topic where people voted for the suggestion of new menagerie kittens. Seems that Leo won.)

(06-05-2014 10:23 AM)Ivy Norsk Wrote: [ -> ]GROSS. OVERSUPPLY. OF CATS.

Get rid of the supply of cats on the grid. Sweeten the menagerie WAY up.

•Raise the price given for turning in a menagerie kitty.

•Instead of having so many LE collectibles with new traits on the front end, have LE collectibles (without new traits - heck, maybe even with new traits) on the menagerie end.

Best ideas ever! I hope Kittycats is listening. This is a great solution to this issue.

(06-05-2014 10:23 AM)Ivy Norsk Wrote: [ -> ]

‘DoubleDare’ Wrote:The value of any object is what one is willing to pay for it. Period.

I agree. Absolutely. It’s all about supply and demand.

‘DoubleDare’ Wrote:The reason no one wants to pay for them is because they are not even valued by the makers and breeders of the damned things.
….
I don't care if you want to pay 22k for a cat. I do care that you can't fork out 600l for a cat that cost me 2 to 3000 to produce at the end of the day.

I disagree. The makers value them, but they aren’t buying other cats because they already have that cat, or they are already working on that cat. Or they are already spending 2 to 3000L to produce their own cat.
Supply and Demand.

Let us be clear. There is a gross oversupply of cats on the grid.
GROSS. OVERSUPPLY. OF CATS.
(That nobody is buying. Which leads to desperation and firesales.)
Price fixing will not change the supply of cats on the grid.

Rather than institute price controls - which have many problems - I would urge KittyCats! to tackle the issue from the back end of the market - the menagerie end.

Get rid of the supply of cats on the grid. Sweeten the menagerie WAY up.

In my opinion, this is the first suggestion in this thread that I can see KittyCatS doing. Now we're getting somewhere! One of the reasons the menagerie was put in place was to flush out the gross oversupply of cats while rewarding players for partaking in the menagerie versus these sales that some find offending.

KittyCatS has been around for many years now and like any other game, the market can become oversaturated throughout this extensive amount of time. It's been a while since we've had any menagerie rewards as incentives for these people to use it and I think that perhaps KittyCatS should consider adding new rewards. These rewards should be every year or more frequently to keep the market flushing out cats via menagerie and not resorting to sales of 100L unwanted cats.

I will reiterate what I've been saying this whole time since playing in 2011, the 100L cats have always been there, this isn't new but perhaps may be new to newer players? The 100L cats are more apparent than ever in the summer so if this is your first summer in KittyCatS, this is normal. Welcome to summer! It's really not that bad, just the typical summer lull that Second Life in general experiences. I've yet to see a summer without this 'issue' but those cats tend to disappear a bit when a beautiful new menagerie tiger incentive is released. KittyCatS should add breedable trait incentives too as always, such as previous discoveries of jade eyes, tiger curl tail, blush quartz eyes, and more from menagerie tigers.

Ultimately, Second Life is all about a free market. If someone is selling their skin at a popular event for 100L, then as a skin designer you must accept that and either adapt or deal with possibly not as many sales as other designers too adjust their products to lower prices. That is your call: if you feel that your work is worth more than 100L, then don't sell for 100L and people will still buy if they too appreciate your end-product, I know this example well from my own store. This is the same with KittyCatS and in the end it's up to each and every person as to what they wish to sell the cat for no matter how degraded you personally believe a particular trait has become due to it or how disgusted you are with your 'Monet' cat no longer feeling as epic.

In the past, we've promoted community-made KittyCatS price guides and suggestions and many follow, but there will always be people who dance to their own beat and set their own prices, and this applies to almost any product throughout Second Life. I highly doubt that KittyCatS is going to set in place some magical, idealized ban of any sort on cats whose prices you don't personally agree with and the menagerie solution seems to be the most logical as it has worked in the past. After all, who doesn't want a chance at discovering a new trait or adopting a gorgeous tiger?

Its interesting that this discussion moved towards talk of banning and other sanctions...Is it really that much easier to consider such drastic measures than it is to just play fair and with consideration and respect of others efforts? A meeting of the minds does not require boycotts, per se. But it would encourage conscientious choices by both breeder and seller...Should we need to be legislated up the ying yang? No, I dont think so but when it comes to self-policing lets just take note of how we never have enough cops LOL

Gandhi said it best: Be the change you wish to see in the world

I don't think Gandhi calculated the 6 billion people in the world who are out to get the other 6 billion people.