KittyCatS! Community Forum

I have a cream with salty in the background and am breeding with the son who is also a cream. Do you think I will ever get a salty with the back breeding? If so what is the ratio if any at all.


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You should get your salty since the son would have it too and it's more rec than the cream. I have no clue about odds though.

The job sounds really great. I could use the pay to help with kibble, but I just don't have the time.

Sort answer: no

The best, rule-of-thumb estimate, of the odds for success breeding her to her Cream Lynx son are: none at all.

Your best guidance, if you wish to produce a Foxie Salt and Pepper, using her as a mother, would be to obtain a male showing Foxie Salt and Pepper.

If you want a precise explanation, I'll need a screenshot of the Pedigree View showing her, her parents, her mate, and the son. But the changes are very, very good, that estimate will be: you have NO chance to produce Foxie Salt and Pepper back breeding her with that son. Since you only say 'in the background' it would help to have the Pedigree show back to where Foxie Salt and Pepper actually shows on an ancestor.

(08-03-2013 07:48 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: [ -> ]Sort answer: no

The best, rule-of-thumb estimate, of the odds for success breeding her to her Cream Lynx son are: none at all.

Your best guidance, if you wish to produce a Foxie Salt and Pepper, using her as a mother, would be to obtain a male showing Foxie Salt and Pepper.

If you want a precise explanation, I'll need a screenshot of the Pedigree View showing her, her parents, her mate, and the son. But the changes are very, very good, that estimate will be: you have NO chance to produce Foxie Salt and Pepper back breeding her with that son. Since you only say 'in the background' it would help to have the Pedigree show back to where Foxie Salt and Pepper actually shows on an ancestor.

I looked at the pedigree. the mom had salty hiding from one of the parents, and lots of salty in background. So the cream son has salty for grandparent too. Since the salty is so close in the pedigree I would assume she has a good chance of getting a mix between cream and salty os.

(08-03-2013 12:54 PM)devilness chant Wrote: [ -> ]I looked at the pedigree. the mom had salty hiding from one of the parents, and lots of salty in background. So the cream son has salty for grandparent too. Since the salty is so close in the pedigree I would assume she has a good chance of getting a mix between cream and salty os.

I think you are right Dev that will increase the chance the Salty is still present in the background.

I take it, then, since you're all satisfied it's possible, that you all have verified that the father of the boy either shows Cream Lynx, or can be proven to hide it.

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(08-03-2013 02:23 PM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2013 12:54 PM)devilness chant Wrote: [ -> ]I looked at the pedigree. the mom had salty hiding from one of the parents, and lots of salty in background. So the cream son has salty for grandparent too. Since the salty is so close in the pedigree I would assume she has a good chance of getting a mix between cream and salty os.

I think you are right Dev that will increase the chance the Salty is still present in the background.

Huh? I didn't know we were talking about Meeroos. I thought this was KittyCatS.

She hides Foxie Salt and Pepper because she has a parent which showed it and we don't know of anything more recessive than Foxie Salt and Pepper.

Please keep comments like "lots in the background" to discussions of Meeroos, where it matter.

Here, for KittyCatS, it has no meaning whatsoever and only serves to confuse new breeders.

(08-03-2013 04:39 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: [ -> ]I take it, then, since you're all satisfied it's possible, that you all have verified that the father of the boy either shows Cream Lynx, or can be proven to hide it.

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(08-03-2013 02:23 PM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2013 12:54 PM)devilness chant Wrote: [ -> ]I looked at the pedigree. the mom had salty hiding from one of the parents, and lots of salty in background. So the cream son has salty for grandparent too. Since the salty is so close in the pedigree I would assume she has a good chance of getting a mix between cream and salty os.

I think you are right Dev that will increase the chance the Salty is still present in the background.

Huh? I didn't know we were talking about Meeroos. I thought this was KittyCatS.

She hides Foxie Salt and Pepper because she has a parent which showed it and we don't know of anything more recessive than Foxie Salt and Pepper.

Please keep comments like "lots in the background" to discussions of Meeroos, where it matter.

Here, for KittyCatS, it has no meaning whatsoever and only serves to confuse new breeders.

You're right as always Tad....it has loaaaaaaaaaaads of Foxie salt and peppers in the background.

Hahaha???

Just so new breeders know: the cat either has, or has not.

The odds of it passing are either exactly 50% (it has) or 0% (it has not).

KittyCatS are not Meeroos. It does not matter whether the ancestors never showed a trait value, or whether it's visible for the past 50 million generations; the odds are always 50% if the cat has the genetic material, and 0% if it does not.

The question, in this case, is does the offspring, a boy, have it?

Clearly his mother does.

But the offspring shows the same as his mother.

If his father did not have Balinese Cream Lynx, then it must have come from his mother.

But his mother can only pass ONE value.

If she passed the Balinese Cream Lynx, it is impossible for her to also have passed Foxie Salt and Pepper.

I don't care how many generations of Foxie Salt and Pepper her ancestors presented. If she was the source of Balinese Cream Lynx, then her son cannot have received Foxie Salt and Pepper from her.

So, in answering the OP question, what are the chances of producing Foxie Salt and Pepper from breeding the son to the mother, the critical question is: was the father a Balinese Cream Lynx, or can he be shown to carry Balinese Cream Lynx.

If he did not have Balinese Cream Lynx the chances of success are nil. It can't happen. Ever.

If he DID have Balinese Cream Lynx, the chances are 1-in-3 that the son carries his mother's hidden Foxie Salt and Pepper. If he does not (2 out of 3 times, he won't), the chances of success are nil. It can't happen. Ever. It could have, with another son, but not this one.

So, **IF** the father carries Balinese Cream Lynx, and we select a random male offspring from the pairing, showing Balinese Cream Lynx like his mother, the odds of successfully producing Foxie Salt and Pepper are EITHER 0 (2 out of 3 times) or 1-in-4 (1 out of 3 times).

I would put the generalized odds of success, then at 1-in-12. But with caveats that this is misleading, because we're talking about a specific son, and not an infinite number of them. The odds are either 0 or 1-in-4, for this specific son. And you won't know which until you try, maybe not even then.

But, remember, if the father was NOT Balinese Cream Lynx, and did NOT hide Balinese Cream Lynx, all that goes out the windows and the odds are simple: there would be no chance, whatsoever, ever, that breeding the son to the mother would produce Foxie Salt and Pepper.

(08-04-2013 06:23 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: [ -> ]Hahaha???

Just so new breeders know: the cat either has, or has not.

The odds of it passing are either exactly 50% (it has) or 0% (it has not).

KittyCatS are not Meeroos. It does not matter whether the ancestors never showed a trait value, or whether it's visible for the past 50 million generations; the odds are always 50% if the cat has the genetic material, and 0% if it does not.

The question, in this case, is does the offspring, a boy, have it?

Clearly his mother does.

But the offspring shows the same as his mother.

If his father did not have Balinese Cream Lynx, then it must have come from his mother.

But his mother can only pass ONE value.

If she passed the Balinese Cream Lynx, it is impossible for her to also have passed Foxie Salt and Pepper.

I don't care how many generations of Foxie Salt and Pepper her ancestors presented. If she was the source of Balinese Cream Lynx, then her son cannot have received Foxie Salt and Pepper from her.

So, in answering the OP question, what are the chances of producing Foxie Salt and Pepper from breeding the son to the mother, the critical question is: was the father a Balinese Cream Lynx, or can he be shown to carry Balinese Cream Lynx.

If he did not have Balinese Cream Lynx the chances of success are nil. It can't happen. Ever.

If he DID have Balinese Cream Lynx, the chances are 1-in-3 that the son carries his mother's hidden Foxie Salt and Pepper. If he does not (2 out of 3 times, he won't), the chances of success are nil. It can't happen. Ever. It could have, with another son, but not this one.

So, **IF** the father carries Balinese Cream Lynx, and we select a random male offspring from the pairing, showing Balinese Cream Lynx like his mother, the odds of successfully producing Foxie Salt and Pepper are EITHER 0 (2 out of 3 times) or 1-in-4 (1 out of 3 times).

I would put the generalized odds of success, then at 1-in-12. But with caveats that this is misleading, because we're talking about a specific son, and not an infinite number of them. The odds are either 0 or 1-in-4, for this specific son. And you won't know which until you try, maybe not even then.

But, remember, if the father was NOT Balinese Cream Lynx, and did NOT hide Balinese Cream Lynx, all that goes out the windows and the odds are simple: there would be no chance, whatsoever, ever, that breeding the son to the mother would produce Foxie Salt and Pepper.

What are Meeroos?

Concerning the OP's question it stands a chance it hides the Salty but also a change it has not and only if both parents hid the Mask.
The best way is to indeed breed the cream with a Salty just so you know if the Offspring doesn't show it, it hides it for sure.
But as I recall that wasn't the question.

Don't get me started on Meeroos.

Yes.

From the OP we know:

Son carries (since he shows) Balinese Cream Lynx.

Mom carries (since she shows) Balinese Cream Lynx.
Mom carries (since she has a parent showing) Foxie Salt and Pepper.
This fully describes Mom; she can't carry anything else.

Dad carries one of: Balinese Cream Lynx, Pandie Brown and White, Foxie Soft Black, or Foxie Salt and Pepper. We know this because Son shows Balinese Cream Lynx.

Son hides one of:
Balinese Cream Lynx
Pandie Brown and White
Foxie Soft Black
Foxie Salt and Pepper

When back-breeding Son to Mom the odds for a given box from them showing Foxie Salt and Pepper are either 0% (it can never happen) or 25% (it should happen every now and then).

Often you can examine Dad to determine if the odds will be 0% or 25%. But sometimes you still can't tell.

Failing that, all we can say is that usually, 2 out of 3 times, the odds, per box, will be 0% and sometimes, 1 out of 3 times, they'll be 25%.

What I can say, while trying will often fail, it is actually a good idea .. IN THE LONG TERM.

While you probably won't see Foxie Salt and Pepper, there is actually a decent chance you'll see Pandie Brown and White or Foxie Soft Black .. if you ever do see them, they came from Dad and Son (fully describing both) and are guaranteed to hide your goal of Foxie Salt and Pepper. Half of those will be grandsons. When this occurs, your best course of action, to produce Foxie Salt and Pepper is, as soon as possible, drop Son and switch to breeding Mom to that grandson.

What you'll probably see is a LOT of Cream Lynx. About 1 in 3 of those will hide Foxie Salt and Pepper. Your best course of action, here, is, as soon as you have a boy and a girl, get them cooking, too. And so on, down the generations. If you get enough of them, you should, eventually, see Foxie Salt and Pepper .. but you could lose it entirely and never be able to see it .. and you won't even know if THAT happens!