What then??

[hurtme Waco]

possibly a stupid question, but: What will happen if both shown and hidden trait of one parent is more reccesive than shown and hidden trait of the other parent? Anne

[Nenya Eun]

You will get one of the dominant traits showing and one of the recessive ones hidden.

[hurtme Waco]

yes, and that means the trait from the parent with reccesive traits will never be shown on any of the OS with those two as parents... I guess I should have understood this long time ago, but i didnt lol

[Nenya Eun]

But you get a chance by breeding siblings together or backbreeding the offsprings to the parent with the recessive traits,
if the OS are the right gender, of course.

[Tad Carlucci]

There are several possible answers

---

Parents
Ab x Cd -> Ac Ad Bc Bd

All possible offspring pairs
Ac x Ac -> Aa Ac Ac Cc
Ac x Ad -> Aa Ad Ac Cd
Ac x Bc -> Ab Ac Bc Cc
Ac x Bd -> Ab Ad Bc Cd
Ad x Ad -> Aa Ad Ad Dd
Ad x Bc -> Ab Ac Bd Cd
Ad x Bd -> Ab Ad Bd Dd
Bc x Bc -> Bb Bc Bc Cc
Bc x Bd -> Bb Bd Bc Cd
Bd x Bd -> Bb Bd Bd Dd

Net odds for 2nd generation. That is "Take two random offspring from the parents"; assumes you do not look at the traits, and gender does not present a problem:

A 17 in 40
B 13 in 40
C 7 in 40
D 3 in 40

---

Parents
Aa x Bb -> Ab Ab Ab Ab

All possible offspring pairs
Ab x Ab -> Aa Ab Ab Bb

A 3 in 4
B 1 in 4

---

Parents
Aa x Bc -> Ab Ac Ab Ac

All possible offspring pairs
Ab x Ab -> Aa Ab Ab Bb
Ab x Ac -> Aa Ac Ab Bc
Ac x Ac -> Aa Ac Ac Cc

A 9 in 12
B 2 in 12
C 1 in 12

---

Parents
Ab x Cc -> Ac Ac Bc Bc

All possible offspring pairs
Ac x Ac -> Aa Ac Ac Cc
Ac x Bc -> Ab Ac Bc Cc
Bc x Bc -> Bb Bc Bc Cc

A 5 in 12
B 4 in 12
C 3 in 12

[Bea Shamrock]

*drools over Tad's analysis*

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(02-14-2013 09:34 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  There are several possible answers

---

Parents
Ab x Cd -> Ac Ad Bc Bd

All possible offspring pairs
Ac x Ac -> Aa Ac Ac Cc
Ac x Ad -> Aa Ad Ac Cd
Ac x Bc -> Ab Ac Bc Cc
Ac x Bd -> Ab Ad Bc Cd
Ad x Ad -> Aa Ad Ad Dd
Ad x Bc -> Ab Ac Bd Cd
Ad x Bd -> Ab Ad Bd Dd
Bc x Bc -> Bb Bc Bc Cc
Bc x Bd -> Bb Bd Bc Cd
Bd x Bd -> Bb Bd Bd Dd

Net odds for 2nd generation. That is "Take two random offspring from the parents"; assumes you do not look at the traits, and gender does not present a problem:

A 17 in 40
B 13 in 40
C 7 in 40
D 3 in 40

---

Parents
Aa x Bb -> Ab Ab Ab Ab

All possible offspring pairs
Ab x Ab -> Aa Ab Ab Bb

A 3 in 4
B 1 in 4

---

Parents
Aa x Bc -> Ab Ac Ab Ac

All possible offspring pairs
Ab x Ab -> Aa Ab Ab Bb
Ab x Ac -> Aa Ac Ab Bc
Ac x Ac -> Aa Ac Ac Cc

A 9 in 12
B 2 in 12
C 1 in 12

---

Parents
Ab x Cc -> Ac Ac Bc Bc

All possible offspring pairs
Ac x Ac -> Aa Ac Ac Cc
Ac x Bc -> Ab Ac Bc Cc
Bc x Bc -> Bb Bc Bc Cc

A 5 in 12
B 4 in 12
C 3 in 12

LOL Tad!
I understand about the genetics at least I thought I did until I saw this post

[hurtme Waco]

(02-14-2013 09:34 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  There are several possible answers

---

Parents
Ab x Cd -> Ac Ad Bc Bd

All possible offspring pairs
Ac x Ac -> Aa Ac Ac Cc
Ac x Ad -> Aa Ad Ac Cd
Ac x Bc -> Ab Ac Bc Cc
Ac x Bd -> Ab Ad Bc Cd
Ad x Ad -> Aa Ad Ad Dd
Ad x Bc -> Ab Ac Bd Cd
Ad x Bd -> Ab Ad Bd Dd
Bc x Bc -> Bb Bc Bc Cc
Bc x Bd -> Bb Bd Bc Cd
Bd x Bd -> Bb Bd Bd Dd

Net odds for 2nd generation. That is "Take two random offspring from the parents"; assumes you do not look at the traits, and gender does not present a problem:

A 17 in 40
B 13 in 40
C 7 in 40
D 3 in 40

---

Parents
Aa x Bb -> Ab Ab Ab Ab

All possible offspring pairs
Ab x Ab -> Aa Ab Ab Bb

A 3 in 4
B 1 in 4

---

Parents
Aa x Bc -> Ab Ac Ab Ac

All possible offspring pairs
Ab x Ab -> Aa Ab Ab Bb
Ab x Ac -> Aa Ac Ab Bc
Ac x Ac -> Aa Ac Ac Cc

A 9 in 12
B 2 in 12
C 1 in 12

---

Parents
Ab x Cc -> Ac Ac Bc Bc

All possible offspring pairs
Ac x Ac -> Aa Ac Ac Cc
Ac x Bc -> Ab Ac Bc Cc
Bc x Bc -> Bb Bc Bc Cc

A 5 in 12
B 4 in 12
C 3 in 12

WOW!! I guess I have a bit of homework to do!!

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(02-15-2013 10:34 AM)hurtme Waco Wrote:  WOW!! I guess I have a bit of homework to do!!

To think our cute little fur balls are capable of doing all this is just mind blowing isn't it?

[Tad Carlucci]

Isn't it amazing the apparent complexity with can arise from such a simple system.

I say apparent because. when you look at the combinations and potential outcomes, it does look complex.

Those tables show all possible outcome. But notice I qualified that by saying you're not allowed to actually LOOK at the offsring!

What makes the system interesting is how player choices can strongly effect the outcome.

I always say the goal of the breeding process is to eliminate random chance.

The tables above are just the sub-set where one parent's hidden is dominant over the other parent's shown.

As a breeder, you will want look at what you have .. not what's possible .. but what actually occurred. Many times, that will tell you that great swaths of my tables simply don't apply to your parents.

And you'll select from those cats you have, creating pairings which lead to your desired result, eliminating even more of my charts.

In other words. we can restate the goal of the breeding process as reducing the apparent complexity.

How ever you look at it, whatever processes or procedures you use (just so you actually use some!!!) your breeding will eventually lead away from randomness and toward certainty. The question .. and this is largely controlled by your choices .. is how quickly your processes will do so.