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Newbie Questions for Breeding Gurus
04-20-2015, 02:08 PM
Post: #1
Newbie Questions for Breeding Gurus
Hi! I am very new to breeding, and I have been trying to understand which traits are actually rare/unusual and which are recessive, but still common. For example, I seem to see Foxie S&P fur all the time, even though it is recessive. Odyssey Bellini and Odyssey Kaleidoscope eyes seem fairly easy to find, but the less recessive eyes Beach Blue seem to never appear in pedigrees. I would be very, very appreciative of any guidance regarding which traits are actually hard to find, and desirable (even if they are not recessive). I don't want to accidentally menagerie something and regret it laterRolleyes Your wisdom is welcome!

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04-20-2015, 03:31 PM (This post was last modified: 04-20-2015 03:35 PM by Kayla Woodrunner.)
Post: #2
RE: Newbie Questions for Breeding Gurus
Sometimes you don't see the dominant furs or eyes as often for sale because people assume people want to buy the more recessive eyes/furs.

There are some dominance/recessiveness charts that can help you.
Saga's charts are good for fur, eyes, and other traits.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B0_Wqb33nVpnZWYwNGViMGMtYWU4ZS00ZjAyLTk4OTctMzk2YzljODliMDhm#


they have a blog too now and I'll look that up in a moment (I always have the charts up so it's a quick paste)

Also there is Fabao's charts for other traits. His charts tend to be a little faster on placing the other traits then Saga's but the turnaround time for Saga's charts has improved recently.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?..._web#gid=0


---

Added
here is the link for the Saga blog
http://sagakitty.blogspot.com/

The chart links are on the right side.

"In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods; they have not forgotten this." Terry Pratchett
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 Thanks given by: Morgan Northmead , Oselkhandro Resident , Devilness Chant
04-20-2015, 08:59 PM
Post: #3
Not a guru, more like an annoying buzz in your ear ;)

Some people major in the flavor of the month.

The newest fur/eye/tail that nobody has seen before.

Initially that's where the money is as far as your breeder clientele is concerned.

They want to whip up new blends to toss at the auction house
and make fistfuls of quick cash!

So if you are the first on the block with 'SQUISHY' tail,
and can generate more squishy tails as fast as you can,
it can be quite lucrative.

To pull this hiding stuff out of your cats,
you need those Grey Foxy bellini combos,
recessive genetics that nothing can hide behind.
Hense you see a lot of people breeding these ' Geneticist TOOLS' so do speak.

Myself, I don't really give a sh!t about the newest fad,
or nine traits.
I just like cat combos that look good.
I like the natural shade, I like big pupils.

But its still handy to have those grey foxies around to tweak the way you want to.

And I agree...BEACH BLUE ROCKS! Try it on a black Russian, its TASTY!

Welcome aboard the KittyCatS choo choo!

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 Thanks given by: Wendi Lavendel , Morgan Northmead , Oselkhandro Resident , Devilness Chant , Ivy Norsk
04-21-2015, 08:15 AM
Post: #4
RE: Newbie Questions for Breeding Gurus
Hi Oselkhandro, welcome to KittyCatS! Big Grin

The SagaKitty Updates and News Blog is here (we will be starting our article series on proofs soon that will help you understand a bit about the traits and how KittyCatS work): http://sagakitty.blogspot.ca
(There are links to the charts on the right side)

The main FAQ for the charts is here:
SagaKitty Trait Charts: FAQ
There is a section in there with tutorials and stuff to help you get started!

The Saga Charts do sometimes take a bit longer for 2 reasons:

1. One of my jobs is to collect the proof documents from SagaKitty's inventory/email and route them to the appropriate folder/person. I lost most of my eyesight just over a year ago and have spent the last 14 months learning to adapt and adjust, so it used to take a while to get through all the documents we received, try to read them, and then send them to the right place (plus RL work takes twice as long now, so having to manage time, etc). I now have a number of accessible tools and technologies available that I've just learned to use in the last few months, and this has improved the process greatly Smile

2. We are very picky about the proofs we get: many times we have to ask for more information and that takes more time. We never assume anything and will never put anything on the charts that is based on guesses or assumptions. Our first article in our new proofs series will make the process and rules more transparent so that people can understand what we do, how we do it, and why Smile

SagaKitty News and Updates Blog:
http://sagakitty.blogspot.ca/
Got Proofs? =^^=
Send full-perm textures/NCs/urls to SagaKitty in SL or email SagaKittySL@gmail.com
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 Thanks given by: Ivy Norsk , Morgan Northmead , Ryanna Enfield , Oselkhandro Resident , Devilness Chant , Jolita Korobase , Brunabug Nightfire
05-02-2015, 09:19 AM
Post: #5
RE: Newbie Questions for Breeding Gurus
This is Hildemar. I think she rocks the beach blue and proves that snowshoe creams aren't boring. She's a double swank and hides the ody bellini eyes. I have been breeding snowshoe creams for a full year now in - yes - the attempt to create a good "geneticist tool" as it were, for quickly identifying LE traits. It has been a frustrating year of slow progress for my snowshoe creams: trying to get 8Ts with silver whiskers to have white whiskers and then latte. Losing an MOF ear for foxie, but gaining the swanky whiskers. Having the ody bellini eye (which makes for a very sweet soft looking cat on the snowshoe creams) to the beach blue. It's the kind of process that all line breeders go through. Right now, I can only get girls to show the swanky tail.

In the process one gets a lot of great good-looking cats. But there is the push-me pullya of, well, it would be good to sell Some cats. And I like the boutique cats; I specialize in them I suppose. But even so, dealing with LEs (whether one is in the trait race or just trying to play the "find the trai" game efficiently), it is frustrating not to have some recessive cats to work with for the mates. And in these situations, the dominant traits become obstacles to the breeding. It isn't that they aren't pretty. But they don't Get You There. And for that reason, people tend not to buy them. And for that reason, people tend to not even set them out for sale. Which is a shame I suppose, but also realistic. Perhaps with retirements of traits and years passing, the wheel will turn, and the dominant will become the sought-after rare.

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 Thanks given by: Brunabug Nightfire , RoxonAve Resident , Devilness Chant , Keltora Edenbaum , Winter Phoenix , Oselkhandro Resident
05-02-2015, 10:34 PM
Post: #6
RE: Newbie Questions for Breeding Gurus
What a beautiful kittycat Ivy! I know I'm not on topic, but I had to say that! Sorry.
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 Thanks given by: MsMagick Resident , Ivy Norsk
05-05-2015, 03:15 PM (This post was last modified: 05-05-2015 03:18 PM by Kayla Woodrunner.)
Post: #7
RE: Newbie Questions for Breeding Gurus
I think it's also interesting how personal tastes change. I didn't like the snowshoe cream much when it first came out -- preferring the much bolder Black Bengals although they were more dom. Plus I had and still have a thing for bengals and ocies. I also like the dark chocolate aby -- at first because of the name -- who doesn't love dark chocolate. But also because I have a preference for dark furs and the way they set off eyes, especially the blues, greens and the lights: ody bell, strawberry bell, divine, platinum, crystal clear.

However, my tastes has evolved to include what I call the gentler furs. The ones with a softer palette. These are the snowshoe creams, the platinum pandies, bali chocolate lynx and others with a gentle shading. For some reason, now they remind me of Japanese watercolor scrolls: gentle but very evocative. They also do really well with vivid eyes making them almost sparkle.

Which is another way of saying, you have a very lovely cat, Ivy -- one that I would not have appreciated six months ago.

And for newbies: you'll find yourself going through evolutions of tastes even as you learn the market of what others like. I think first you'll like your favorite color in eyes and for fur something that is connected to your likes in RL--like a fur like an RL cat, or because you like jungle cats, or even because you like coffee or food. You probably won't even think much about tails, ears and whiskers in the beginning.

Then stage two, you'll start wanting recessives and new traits: for two reasons: A) because it looks everyone else wants them but also because B) as you learn to breed and make cats, the recessive furs are the ones that are harder and will challenge you to bring out. Once you start nailing down finding out hiddens and bringing out recessive traits, you'll evolve again. Also you'll want those traits because they are expensive and probably out of your each for a time -- as they drop in price, it will reach a point you can afford and you'll snap it up because you wanted it for awhile. The longer you couldn't afford it, the more desirable it will be when you finally do get it. It will be a luxury. (actually it is like the tulips or stock market, it is all about perceived value loosely based on possible long-term value)

And this is where it gets totally unpredictable. Finally, the cats you make in the later stages will be because of your kittycat experiences in SL. Maybe the first fur you found in a collectible, or a really hard recessive that was tough but damn it you managed to not only get it to show but put some pretty traits with it. It can be the kitty your SL friend gave you or the first Mega you had born. Or a kitty at an And this is where it gets totally unpredictable. ction that really pops at you. Or avoiding a certain trait because it is overwhelming your cattery. All those and many more will effect which furs, eyes and trait combos you really like.

That middle stage of desiring new and recessive traits is hte easiest to market for and is very market driven and most people go through that stage so there is a broad band of buyers. This is where you see the most people doing the pump and dump: getting the new trait out fast with lots of gen traits and selling as much as they can as fast as they can for whatever prices they can get. They'll start high but drop lower pretty fast if they can't get it. Also people deciding to sell kitties and create a marketable cattery, really chase those traits and auctioneers love people in that stage because they are in a buying fury stage. People spend the most money in this stage.

Honestly there is no way to breed for people's first and last stages because they are so personal and eclectic being driven by a wide variety of RL tastes and SL experiences. Also when you're in the later stages, you're not buying kitties for their traits but because you're supporting a friend, or supporting a classic fur or eye, or the artistic way someone put a cat together, or a buying a fur or eye because you don't have it and just want the "ingredient" for someday, so you are not buying as many kitties and your "buys" are very unpredictable so it's harder for sellers to read your "wants". That's why you'll notice some buyers like certain breeders although the furs and eyes are not new -- those breeders are making cats that appeal to them and not just for the traits but for how those traits are combined together. It becomes personal taste or needs rather than market driven. At this point you probably have a lot of boxes in your cattery and may even have started to become a hoarder because the cats you are making now or buying -- you really really like. By this time, you are probably a decent breeder and understand hids, can rattle off which traits are most recessive and can create your dream kitty because you have all the "ingredients/traits" in your cattery and understand dominance even if it might take awhile to get the traits bred on one kitty line. And honestly none of your cats have traits in the most dominant 1/3 of the charts unless you like the trait or it is retired.

There are probably some other stages inside there but those are the broad ones I've noticed. If you want to become a successful seller, you will probably gear your kitties toward 2nd stage people. But you will find you will get the most satisfaction when you sell to the first and final stages folks because those are the kitties you make because you like them and those are the folks who buy because they like what you created -- not for how much perceived profit they will make. And if they buy more than one kitty from you, you'll find yourself making friends because it becomes more than a business transaction. You won't sell to folks in those stages as often but when you do, it can be more fun, affirming and connective.

geez, I ramble a lot sometimes. I must have been thinking about this more than I thought. I'll stop now, lol.

"In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods; they have not forgotten this." Terry Pratchett
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 Thanks given by: Ivy Norsk , Moonstream27 Resident , Ryanna Enfield , Oselkhandro Resident , Breehid McCallen
05-08-2015, 10:45 AM
Post: #8
RE: Newbie Questions for Breeding Gurus
Kayla, I really appreciate your insights! I have worked my way through Stage 1 and I now have hundreds of boxes with all sorts of random traits, "just in case" I might like them. Stage 2: I am currently looking for the recessives and newer traits, just to see how that will help me clarify my lines. But my real desire is to reach what you call Stage 3: I want to trim down my stock of breeders and start some lines that aim for pure beauty, without regard for the newness or recessiveness of the traits (even if those can't sell). I have been blessed with advice from a few specialist breeders who preserve some of the older traits such as the Gerbera eyes (special thanks to Judysl Resident). Someday, perhaps there will be a Cat Show...a sort of "Westminster" for KittyCatS...for those Couture Kitties that are exceptionally lovely and pure traited! It would be such a joy to celebrate the work of the breeders who perfect their "art" with KittyCatS.

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