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Kitty pricing!
10-23-2017, 01:33 AM
Post: #121
RE: Kitty pricing!
(09-29-2017 06:28 AM)Illuminatra Resident Wrote:  Kitty Pricing...

Do our current prices reflect a market that once was OR do they represent a market that is now?

Technology (AKA: the Profilers) have made it so much easier for a consumer to compare prices. In years past, a consumer had to TP to each of the markets, spend countless amounts of hours walking around - trying to find a cat that catches their eye, at a price that they can afford OR want to afford. Now-a-days, this way of consumerism has changed drastically. We can look up the traits that we are in search of in a matter of minutes using the web-markets & once we find what we are in search of, we can TP directly to these cats. This eliminates the need to walk around comparing prices, traits, etc. If a cat that we TP to costs more than we're willing to spend, we can quickly TP to the next one that might fit our budgets better. Before the profilers - we didn't have this "luxury." We would just have to settle for what we stumbled across during our searches - and sometimes that meant spending more.

Auctions... Now-a-days at auctions you rarely see those bid-wars, those big slap downs, etc. A lot of the time there's hardly anyone bidding on the cats. Why is this? It's because many Auctioneers have stressed to breeders - "this is where you can sell your cats." This ideology that has been hammered into people's heads has caused a nasty domino effect. Everyone's going to auctions to sell their cats, not to BUY & sell their cats. Nobody knows that they should be buying cats too. And think about it for a second. People in our community talk. If they see the same people trying to sell their cats at auctions, without ever supporting anyone else's cats - people will be like, "no, don't buy his/her cat, because they don't ever buy anyone else's." You may think that this is silly or ridiculous - but that's how communities work. That's how this one works anyway. Auctions used to be highly coveted events where people would go to BUY and sell cats. When did this change? Why did this change?

Breeding... There are a LOT of good breeders out there now. Before, you would go to a handful of people that were known for breeding the best cats. Now-a-days, that's not really the case. A lot of people know how to breed for pure traits now. Pure traits always go for more money, but when you have more breeders out there that know how to "play the game," pricing becomes even more competitive. I am going to put a conspiracy theory out there - but maybe, JUST MAYBE - the reason why Confetti cats are so hard to breed, is because KittyCatS themselves - wants breeding to be a bit more tricky. It's been over 2 years since they came out & no one has been able to make and keep a 9T Confetti cat. People have gotten close - 7Ts, 8Ts even... but nope, not 9Ts. These cats don't breed traits as well as normal furs do. Why is that? Why haven't we been able to solve the puzzle over 2 years later? Idea Like I said, there isn't just a handful of people that know how to breed and do it well anymore. Many of us know how to breed down to lock traits in, etc.

I don't know... that's my 2 cents.

I buy auction cats when I can but I personally do not think the sellers should have to buy cats at the auction they are selling cats at. I think the problem is there just is not enough buyers and we should not have to depend on the sellers to buy. I believe in a real life auction you have buyers and then you have the sellers and the two do not usually mix. If we have say 10 sellers then we need at least 10 buyers to show up who are not selling and ideally more but the market is in such a rut that it does not seem possible. I can not use real money to feed my cats for reasons I will not explain here and I depend on cat sales to buy my kibble. Sales in store are usually bad so I depend on auction sales to feed my cats. Anything extra I do usually put back into the market and buy more cats from people. Its just my 2 cents and everybody is entitled to their own opinion.
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10-23-2017, 02:40 AM
Post: #122
RE: Kitty pricing!
Mitsu,

I do agree that there needs to be BOTH buyers and sellers present at auctions in order for the auction to run successfully. I think what I was really trying to get across in my post about auctions is that, there are just more sellers present than buyers. This is a "problem." In order for the auction to be successful, you need both. Are we not getting many buyers at auctions because there are too many auctions? Are we not getting them because there simply isn't enough buyers? It's tough really. I do love those auctions where everyone goes home happy. It's really nice to see.

Aᴜᴄᴛɪᴏɴᴇᴇʀ @ Cʜᴀᴛᴇᴀᴜ Iʟʟᴜᴍɪɴᴀᴛʀᴀ - KɪᴛᴛʏCᴀᴛS! Aᴜᴄᴛɪᴏɴs
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10-25-2017, 05:34 PM (This post was last modified: 10-25-2017 05:39 PM by Minx Diabolito.)
Post: #123
RE: Kitty pricing!
I think the problem is there are too many auctions and also alot of auctioneers put people off going to auctions with some things they do eg. assuming they can mass tp or spam you without caring what you want or asking you. That puts people off going because you are hassled and spammed to go, which is v.offputting for many and does not feel like a happy choice.
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10-26-2017, 05:15 AM (This post was last modified: 10-26-2017 05:28 AM by Ellen Ireland.)
Post: #124
RE: Kitty pricing!
Most of the time, "sell one, buy one" is a good practice for auctions and a goal to aim for, but we have to be realistic about the fact that it is not going to happen 100% of the time. Sometimes the cats don't sell or sell only for the starting bid which is lower than the starting bid on other cats in the same auction (and the seller doesn't have the L$ to make up the difference), or the person who has panel 10 may not have the L$ to buy another cat during the earlier part of the auction before that cat sells. So, yes, it is a good policy and people should be encouraged to do it but it can't be a rule.

I do agree that the market is depressed and that is one of the reasons why I stopped doing my own auctions. There are often more auctions than the market can support, and I would like the auctioneers who have years of experience and who can accurately project the hidden traits to be the ones who draw the crowds, if anyone at all does.

Also, I fully understand and respect the reason why many auctions require that the seller must own at least one grandparent of the cat, so that people don't profit off another breeder's generations of hard work, but it does serve as a disincentive for those of us who regularly buy other people's cats (I buy way too many of them myself, because it is so hard to resist) and whose highest quality cats are generally the offspring of cats purchased at auction from other sellers. The higher prices that we pay for another breeder's high-quality cat are an investment in producing higher quality kittens, and while some of those kittens will be kept and bred to produce higher quality grand-kittens from that purchased cat, it is also true that if one purchases two high quality cats at auction (usually from different breeders) and then one gets six or eight really good but very similarly traited cats out of that breeding, it would be good to be able to sell a few of that generation while still keeping some of them to work on the next generation.

I have given up on using pricing tools such as the KittyCat$ Calculator for now because the market is not what it was when I started a little over two years ago. There are many closeout sales with 9T cats being sold at $75L to $150L which is less than it cost to produce those cats. I find those sales very difficult to resist even though I know they are not good for the market. As a result, once again, I have a large number of very nice cats waiting in boxes in my cattery that I did not breed myself.

I do have my own lines that I have been breeding for my own enjoyment (double mocha latte!) but they are not likely to be attractive to others at most auctions because they aren't going to be 9Ts with the newest or the most recessive traits. I have decided to continue breeding as a pleasurable hobby, and even if nobody else wants my idiosyncratic cats (for example, I'm currently working on the combination of caramel eyes and butterscotch whiskers, "just because") I will still breed them for fun, and attend auctions for fun as well.

Basically, that's the bottom line: we are doing this for fun. Sometimes we need to be reminded not to take it too seriously. Don't harass auctioneers or create drama, just enjoy the kitties!

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11-16-2017, 04:22 PM (This post was last modified: 11-16-2017 04:26 PM by katsiaryne Resident.)
Post: #125
RE: Kitty pricing!
I was away from KC for a while, then started breeding again on my new account (this one) about a year ago. One thing I've noticed with regards to auctions is how frequent they are, with multiple ones daily. Back in the day, there were several big name auction houses (Theo & Draco Nacht even before Nacht Island; Too Adorable or even Juice Berry maybe; Breeder's Borough, etc...). These auctions were big, popular events attended by dozens of people. Often, we had to take off our hair and HUDs to prevent lag, and endure a few crashes, because there were so many people. The atmosphere was fun and chaotic, and these were social events where many people attended to mingle and have fun, rather than attend exclusively for commercial transactions. Now, there are many auctions every day and most seem attended only by sellers. I think the buyer pool is being stretched too thin. I'm not sure what the solution for this is, but I do think the change explains the lack of enthusiasm, ninja bidding and bid wars. It might be wise for larger sims to host fewer, but better attended, auctions if possible.
(10-26-2017 05:15 AM)Ellen Ireland Wrote:  I do have my own lines that I have been breeding for my own enjoyment (double mocha latte!) but they are not likely to be attractive to others at most auctions because they aren't going to be 9Ts with the newest or the most recessive traits. I have decided to continue breeding as a pleasurable hobby, and even if nobody else wants my idiosyncratic cats (for example, I'm currently working on the combination of caramel eyes and butterscotch whiskers, "just because") I will still breed them for fun, and attend auctions for fun as well.

Caramel & Butterscotch kitties sound so delicious! Now I'm hungry. Tongue

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Yesterday, 12:36 AM
Post: #126
RE: Kitty pricing!
I'm a casual breeder of kittycats since 2012 (on older alts) and also sold cats for a brief 3 months, in all those years I've only attended 2-3 auctions but I've bought a lot of cats from different breeders through their stores.

My feel on auctions and why I don't go:
1. I've been mass-spammed TP to go to a particular auction, they even spam during mid-auctions which makes me disable group notice or block the person.
2. I don't chase after the latest traits, not all latest traits are desirable (to me at least)
3. I've no time. I rather buy at my own convenience.

When I buy cats:
I look at the traits and hiddens and if its something I want. If there are several cats that have the traits that I want to add to my line, I will buy the best cat that offers me good value and saves me time on back-breeding and that's not necessarily the cheapest cat. I shop using profilers but I also walk around kittycats markets because not all sellers use profilers. I've been to fire sales but I never find anything that I want there despite full 9T cats on offer.

I don't think sellers should worry about fully traited cats selling at 100L, they are that price because the market is saturated with plenty of similar cats. I don't think the fixed price per trait works anymore either, because the number of kittycat traits has grown exponentially over the years. If you really want to have some measurement in pricing a cat to sell, then it should be line-bred vs random-bred or experiments. And that's pretty easy to tell when one looks at the pedigree. And new (serious) breeders should be educated, when buying line-bred cats or experiments, so they can make a sound purchase.

my conclusion:
Its hard to make a profit from breedables, unless you are super lucky to discover a new trait and someone wants to pay you lots for it. I think before you even talk about pricing, you should survey the amount of similar cats out there that are not sold. Clearly, supply outstrips demand. And since Kittycats now allow us to menagerie kitties to buy kibbles and accessories in-world, that's what I'm gonna do with my boxes.
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