Question about "Levels?"

[Morgaine Soulstar]

I was at an auction yesterday and it raised one big question for me:

It was stated that a particular fur was able to pass traits easier, or more readily pass them to it's OS.

Is this actually true??? Because in looking at Saga's Charts it all seems to be dominate vs recessive, it is a simple case of picking dominate or recessive traits and breeding those two cats together. I found this very confusing and just wanted some clarification. I am new to KC and just want to make sure I am understanding the breeding process.

Thanks!!

[Aubreygrace Starlight]

Dominant is usually the ones that pass it easier. I have been breeding recessive traits together and one or the other seems to pop more on the OS. i'm still learning this too but usually Dom VS Rec means what it means. A dom trait is more dominant which usually passes more. (someone correct me if i'm wrong LOL) hope that made a lil more sense

[Thorn Witrial]

(10-04-2013 05:52 AM)Morgaine Soulstar Wrote:  I was at an auction yesterday and it raised one big question for me:

It was stated that a particular fur was able to pass traits easier, or more readily pass them to it's OS.

Is this actually true??? Because in looking at Saga's Charts it all seems to be dominate vs recessive, it is a simple case of picking dominate or recessive traits and breeding those two cats together. I found this very confusing and just wanted some clarification. I am new to KC and just want to make sure I am understanding the breeding process.

Thanks!!

That's not quite how it works. Two kitties that breed together each contribute traits to the kitty in the kitten box.

Each kitty has traits that it shows and traits that it hides.

It is a 50/50 chance on which trait each parent contributes to the box.

For example, if you have a kitty with a dominant fur and a kitty that shows a much more recessive fur, if both kitties contribute their shown fur, then the dominant fur is what the new kitten will show. It's hidden fur will be the more recessive of the other parent.

However, there is the possibility that the hidden fur is the other parent's even MORE recessive fur.

[Tad Carlucci]

The reason people get this wrong is that "how it works" ignores "how it's used". Or, to put it another way, people (as a class) ignore the results of their (the class, not the individual) previous actions.

Consider the common case for such confusion: a new trait is discovered.

At the point it's discovered, it's found hiding behind one trait, and was exposed by breeding against another, more recessive trait.

The breeder, of course, does not turn her back on success and repeats the pairing. Thus, the initial series of boxes offered for sale include (a) failures who all show the same more-dominant trait or (b) successes who all carry the same more-recessive trait.

Thus, to the public, it usually *appears* as though there is a single dominant trait which is the precursor required to produce the new trait, and it sometimes *appears* that the new trait is, itself, a precursor to another trait.

This can lead to the false conclusion there are "levels". And the conditions which give rise to it can last for surprisingly long periods and produce an amazing amount of supporting data.

But, it's all an illusion. It's simply the result of the way players behave. Eventually, the conditions disappear and the data evaporates.

[Morgaine Soulstar]

Thank you all for your response. What you have told me is what I had originally thought. Then an auctioneer says something completely different and ties the passing of traits to a specific fur.

So to round it all up: all traits are dom -vs recessive, and what you breed together will determine the possible outcome. As long as traits are in place they have the possibility of passing, no matter what fur it is on.

Thanks again!!

[Serena Stroikavskoi]

Morgaine, unfortunately that is the auctioneers opinion. The bottom line is the that kittycats breeding comes down to a script. So unless someone wants to raise their hand and admit to being the scripter (past or present) for kittycats and let the 'cat out of the bag' so to speak on what the formula is for breeding it's gonna remain an opinion. It could literally be any type or combination. Just like getting a mega could be an algorithm of new born pinged to the mother ship. You'll also hear that too, but you can't breed for size either. But yes if it is based on something like mentioned of course someone that breeds 200 cats is going to get more mega's than someone that breeds say 20. Simply because the math is on the side more is better. That's just an example.

So bottom line is you have a dominate (showing) and a recessive (hidden) with the roll of the dice you get one or the other on the offspring. As Tad pointed out if the 'same or similar' cats are bred together you narrow your las vegas odd's and the houses favor.

Depending on the partner it could be your time for showing or hiding. To even your odds is to look for possible traits to match up like one has the trait showing and one hiding or both showing. It would give you more odds that the offspring would show or hide what you are wanting.

[Tad Carlucci]

KittyCatS can be characterized as four games.

There is the "size game". This is the game where you want a Mega. It used to be about Tea Cups, but that seems gone by the wayside and Megas are all anyone talks about any more. The "size game" is a "pure lottery". Nothing you can do can effect the outcome. It is purely random. There is no history, no prerequisite, no action, nothing at all you or anyone can do which can effect whether you will, or will not, get a particular size cat for any given box or set of boxes. The odds of this game are unknown but are pretty obviously heavily stacked toward any given box being "normal" sized.

There is the "jewel game". This is the game where you want to produce jewels. Like the size game there is nothing you can do to effect this game. It is another pure lottery. The odds of this game are unknown but are pretty obviously heavily stacked toward no jewel appearing with any given box.

There is the "starter game". This is the game where you purchase starters from KittyCatS looking for certain trait values. This is a pure lottery. The odds of this game are unknown. My working theory is the odds are fairly "even" .. that is it's roughly just as likely you'll get something highly recessive as it is you'll get something quite dominant. But I might be wrong and there may be differential distributions. We just don't know. What we do know is that there is nothing you can do to effect what you get in your starters.

Finally, there's the breeding game. This is the central game of KittyCatS. Without it, there would be no KittyCatS! at all. The odds in this game are fixed at 50%. Your choices and actions can strongly effect the outcome. While it is impossible to eliminate or modify the fixed 50% odds of this game, it is quite possible (even preferable) to design breeding programs where those odds do not matter and the outcome is fully determined by your choices and actions.

As to scripted examples. Why bother? The "genetics engine" for KittyCatS! is trivial. It's also a very, very ,VERY minor part of the program code. And there is no reason to produce program code which you may, or may not, be able to read when you can produce a physical model at any time: for each trait, for eah parent, take a coin and flip it. That's all there is to it.