A + A = YAY? -When is a cat hiding that special fur...

[Charlotte Calael]

I mated a MALE Siamese Blue Hiding Balinese seal Lynx with a FEMALE Abyssinian Black Silver hiding Balinese seal lynx.
IT CANT hide S.BLue!! It got Abyssinian Black Silver fur Moms shown. It cant hide moms shown fur, it cant hide moms hidden fur. It Cant hide dad shown fur. IT 100% hides dads hidden fur. That came from the starter who made both the dad and the mom that also MADE tons of Balinese Seal lynx fur. IT ONLY HIDES BALINESE SEAL LYNX FUR. 100% hiding it. Cant be anything else. Cant hide abyssinian Black silver becuse it does not hide that fur at all on dads side. A FUR CANT JUST PLOP up when its not in the side. AND IT COULD NOT GOTTEN IT AS HIDDEN FROM MOM. It had moms shown = dads hidden.

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(03-07-2012 01:11 PM)Liriel Garnet Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 01:03 PM)Charlotte Calael Wrote:  Saga i love you but i feel a little bit offended that you posted this. Mine is a Balinese Seal Lynx hiding. It feels bad when you hint it migth not be and that confuses people. If you would have seen the whole pedigree back to the starter you would know this is 100% Balinese Seal Lynx hiding. Im not wrong. Im sure you said this after what you saw in the pedigree. But people trust you so now you decived people into thinking its some other crazy fur hiding... wich is not true. You know i know how the hidden vs shown works. And also becuse others said it was hidden when it was not 100% sure i should not be the blame of other post about Balinese Seal lynx when it was not me who wrote it wrongly.

People trust her because she knows what she's doing, and in this case she's right. One time out of four, on average, both parents will pass their shown fur, and in that case both the shown and hidden are the black/silver and it is *not* hiding the lynx. There is absolutely no way to *guarantee* that a cat showing the black silver is not pure black silver rather than black silver hiding lynx unless you have bred that cat and pulled a lynx box from it. Period.

Im getting very upset, have you looked the pedigree back to the starter? If not i think you should not claim to know somthing you dont know.

[Liriel Garnet]

(03-07-2012 01:15 PM)Charlotte Calael Wrote:  I mated a MALE Siamese Blue Hiding Balinese seal Lynx with a FEMALE Abyssinian Black Silver hiding Balinese seal lynx.
IT CANT hide S.BLue!! It got Abyssinian Black Silver fur Moms shown. It cant hide moms shown fur, it cant hide moms hidden fur. It Cant hide dad shown fur. IT 100% hides dads hidden fur. That came from the starter who made both the dad and the mom that also MADE tons of Balinese Seal lynx fur. IT ONLY HIDES BALINESE SEAL LYNX FUR. 100% hiding it. Cant be anything else. Cant hide abyssinian Black silver becuse it does not hide that fur at all on dads side. A FUR CANT JUST PLOP up when its not in the side. AND IT COULD NOT GOTTEN IT AS HIDDEN FROM MOM. It had moms shown = dads hidden.

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(03-07-2012 01:11 PM)Liriel Garnet Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 01:03 PM)Charlotte Calael Wrote:  Saga i love you but i feel a little bit offended that you posted this. Mine is a Balinese Seal Lynx hiding. It feels bad when you hint it migth not be and that confuses people. If you would have seen the whole pedigree back to the starter you would know this is 100% Balinese Seal Lynx hiding. Im not wrong. Im sure you said this after what you saw in the pedigree. But people trust you so now you decived people into thinking its some other crazy fur hiding... wich is not true. You know i know how the hidden vs shown works. And also becuse others said it was hidden when it was not 100% sure i should not be the blame of other post about Balinese Seal lynx when it was not me who wrote it wrongly.

People trust her because she knows what she's doing, and in this case she's right. One time out of four, on average, both parents will pass their shown fur, and in that case both the shown and hidden are the black/silver and it is *not* hiding the lynx. There is absolutely no way to *guarantee* that a cat showing the black silver is not pure black silver rather than black silver hiding lynx unless you have bred that cat and pulled a lynx box from it. Period.

Im getting very upset, have you looked the pedigree back to the starter? If not i think you should not claim to know somthing you dont know.

The cats you posted that started this were both black/silvers hiding lynx. Those you cannot guarantee their offspring hides it. If you're talking about a siamese blue hiding lynx mated with a black/silver hiding lynx, you are 100 percent correct -- that cat is absolutely hiding the lynx. Our whole premise in this discussion was based on the original ones you posted, two black/silvers hiding lynx mating.

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(03-07-2012 01:15 PM)Charlotte Calael Wrote:  I mated a MALE Siamese Blue Hiding Balinese seal Lynx with a FEMALE Abyssinian Black Silver hiding Balinese seal lynx.
IT CANT hide S.BLue!! It got Abyssinian Black Silver fur Moms shown. It cant hide moms shown fur, it cant hide moms hidden fur. It Cant hide dad shown fur. IT 100% hides dads hidden fur. That came from the starter who made both the dad and the mom that also MADE tons of Balinese Seal lynx fur. IT ONLY HIDES BALINESE SEAL LYNX FUR. 100% hiding it. Cant be anything else. Cant hide abyssinian Black silver becuse it does not hide that fur at all on dads side. A FUR CANT JUST PLOP up when its not in the side. AND IT COULD NOT GOTTEN IT AS HIDDEN FROM MOM. It had moms shown = dads hidden.

Charlotte, the original cats you posted that raised this issue were both black/silver hiding lynx to produce the box. In the case of a Siam Blue hiding Lynx mated with a Black/Silver hiding Lynx, that's a totally different story and you are 100 percent CORRECT -- the box will absolutely hide the lynx, since it shows the black silver, dad had to have passed they lynx.

The issue is that there were several boxes listed, and the ones from the two black/silvers hiding lynx cannot be guaranteed to hide it, but the one from a siam blue is a totally different story -- it IS guaranteed to hide it.

Hope that makes things clear.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(03-07-2012 01:15 PM)Charlotte Calael Wrote:  I mated a MALE Siamese Blue Hiding Balinese seal Lynx with a FEMALE Abyssinian Black Silver hiding Balinese seal lynx.
IT CANT hide S.BLue!! It got Abyssinian Black Silver fur Moms shown. It cant hide moms shown fur, it cant hide moms hidden fur. It Cant hide dad shown fur. IT 100% hides dads hidden fur. That came from the starter who made both the dad and the mom that also MADE tons of Balinese Seal lynx fur. IT ONLY HIDES BALINESE SEAL LYNX FUR. 100% hiding it. Cant be anything else. Cant hide abyssinian Black silver becuse it does not hide that fur at all on dads side. A FUR CANT JUST PLOP up when its not in the side. AND IT COULD NOT GOTTEN IT AS HIDDEN FROM MOM. It had moms shown = dads hidden.

Sounds correct to me.

[Saga Felix]

Charlotte is correct, the cat in question is hiding Balinese Seal Lynx.

-And I never said it didn't... ;-)

What I did, was paste the link to the original post in this thread in Charlotte's advertise-post in the sales-forum. I did that because someone accused her of falsely advertising that cat, and I ASSUMED it was a case where either buyer or seller was confused as to what the cat might be hiding - so I thought that posting a link to this thread would be helpful.

BUT NOOO.... I opened a can of worms! -And for that, I am sorry. -And yes Charlotte, you can say that to anyone who asks, or anyone who says "But Saga said it's not hiding this..." -NOPE, Saga never said that! -Saga merely confused one issue with another issue - and hence posted a link that MADE an issue rather than solve one.

I am sorry about that. I hope this clears it up, and ends this particular part of this discussion.

Saga

[anna Acanthus]

Well i'll post this here now Charlotte as your thread seems to have disappeared.

- In fact it was Ethereal's post which triggered off mine but i didn't realize which thread i was in and i wasn't talking about you or your kitty but in a general manner.
I did wonder about it when you first posted it but as i didn't have the pedigree or know both the parent's shown fur i couldn't really know anything for sure.
Anyhow glad it's been cleared up now.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

In genereal I would love for breeders/ merchants to have pedigree signs in their store especially when it concerns a valuable hidden so we can check it's pedigree so we know what we obtain.
Certainly this counts for valuable hiddens such as new furs for which a lot of lindens are asked.
This wil answer all questions about hiddens as we can check it.
While I might consider to obtain a kitty with a valuable hidden I certainly don't when no pedigree is set up.

[Charlotte Calael]

(03-07-2012 01:21 PM)Liriel Garnet Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 01:15 PM)Charlotte Calael Wrote:  I mated a MALE Siamese Blue Hiding Balinese seal Lynx with a FEMALE Abyssinian Black Silver hiding Balinese seal lynx.
IT CANT hide S.BLue!! It got Abyssinian Black Silver fur Moms shown. It cant hide moms shown fur, it cant hide moms hidden fur. It Cant hide dad shown fur. IT 100% hides dads hidden fur. That came from the starter who made both the dad and the mom that also MADE tons of Balinese Seal lynx fur. IT ONLY HIDES BALINESE SEAL LYNX FUR. 100% hiding it. Cant be anything else. Cant hide abyssinian Black silver becuse it does not hide that fur at all on dads side. A FUR CANT JUST PLOP up when its not in the side. AND IT COULD NOT GOTTEN IT AS HIDDEN FROM MOM. It had moms shown = dads hidden.

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(03-07-2012 01:11 PM)Liriel Garnet Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 01:03 PM)Charlotte Calael Wrote:  I never EVER tryed sale such a cat! Thats not even me. I know who tryed to sell such a cats in Snuras Auction a few weeks ago.. But that was not my cat. So befor you judge you should at least get your facts correctly. And the other thread you were comenting in was a cat with abyssinian black silver fur. You did not even go over to check his pedigree what cats he came from! Insteed you just started to write im wrong saga is rigth. Well saga is rigth about how cats breed. But she have not checked my cat on panel 3. She just talking over all how cats works. And shes rigth how they breed and work. Im following Sagas own notes. Shes been my teacher my as long as i have been a breeder. Im not saying shes wrong im just saying shes wrong about my cat becuse she have not checked the cats pedigree. and the cats siblings pedigree. and grandchildren and half sibling etc like i have done.. So if she would have said i was wrong she would just have guessed. And she did not even talk about my cat. She was talking about a cat that had 2 parents with same shown fur. I NEVER SOLD a Abyssinian with same fur parent EVER! So now you beeing silly. I never owned such a cat. But im not gonna give names who did sell such a cat in Sanuras Auction. Its not my problem if other people advertise wrongly! Am not supose to get crap for other peoples misstake just becuse YOU asumed it was MY CAT that was proxy sold around 2 weeks ago at Sanuras Auction.....
Saga i love you but i feel a little bit offended that you posted this. Mine is a Balinese Seal Lynx hiding. It feels bad when you hint it migth not be and that confuses people. If you would have seen the whole pedigree back to the starter you would know this is 100% Balinese Seal Lynx hiding. Im not wrong. Im sure you said this after what you saw in the pedigree. But people trust you so now you decived people into thinking its some other crazy fur hiding... wich is not true. You know i know how the hidden vs shown works. And also becuse others said it was hidden when it was not 100% sure i should not be the blame of other post about Balinese Seal lynx when it was not me who wrote it wrongly.

People trust her because she knows what she's doing, and in this case she's right. One time out of four, on average, both parents will pass their shown fur, and in that case both the shown and hidden are the black/silver and it is *not* hiding the lynx. There is absolutely no way to *guarantee* that a cat showing the black silver is not pure black silver rather than black silver hiding lynx unless you have bred that cat and pulled a lynx box from it. Period.

Im getting very upset, have you looked the pedigree back to the starter? If not i think you should not claim to know somthing you dont know.

The cats you posted that started this were both black/silvers hiding lynx. Those you cannot guarantee their offspring hides it. If you're talking about a siamese blue hiding lynx mated with a black/silver hiding lynx, you are 100 percent correct -- that cat is absolutely hiding the lynx. Our whole premise in this discussion was based on the original ones you posted, two black/silvers hiding lynx mating.

---

(03-07-2012 01:15 PM)Charlotte Calael Wrote:  I mated a MALE Siamese Blue Hiding Balinese seal Lynx with a FEMALE Abyssinian Black Silver hiding Balinese seal lynx.
IT CANT hide S.BLue!! It got Abyssinian Black Silver fur Moms shown. It cant hide moms shown fur, it cant hide moms hidden fur. It Cant hide dad shown fur. IT 100% hides dads hidden fur. That came from the starter who made both the dad and the mom that also MADE tons of Balinese Seal lynx fur. IT ONLY HIDES BALINESE SEAL LYNX FUR. 100% hiding it. Cant be anything else. Cant hide abyssinian Black silver becuse it does not hide that fur at all on dads side. A FUR CANT JUST PLOP up when its not in the side. AND IT COULD NOT GOTTEN IT AS HIDDEN FROM MOM. It had moms shown = dads hidden.

Charlotte, the original cats you posted that raised this issue were both black/silver hiding lynx to produce the box. In the case of a Siam Blue hiding Lynx mated with a Black/Silver hiding Lynx, that's a totally different story and you are 100 percent CORRECT -- the box will absolutely hide the lynx, since it shows the black silver, dad had to have passed they lynx.

The issue is that there were several boxes listed, and the ones from the two black/silvers hiding lynx cannot be guaranteed to hide it, but the one from a siam blue is a totally different story -- it IS guaranteed to hide it.

Hope that makes things clear.

---

(03-07-2012 03:21 PM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  In genereal I would love for breeders/ merchants to have pedigree signs in their store especially when it concerns a valuable hidden so we can check it's pedigree so we know what we obtain.
Certainly this counts for valuable hiddens such as new furs for which a lot of lindens are asked.
This wil answer all questions about hiddens as we can check it.
While I might consider to obtain a kitty with a valuable hidden I certainly don't when no pedigree is set up.

Well i always have pedigree in auctions and for the best cats in my store. But you know SOME stuff cant be proven with granparents in pedigree. Some times you have to go back all the way to the starter.. But its a good point you said. And i dont trust people unless i can see it in the pedigree or its a friend of mine. Usually im not paying for hidden stuff at all i rather pay extra to se it shown.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(03-07-2012 03:21 PM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  In genereal I would love for breeders/ merchants to have pedigree signs in their store especially when it concerns a valuable hidden so we can check it's pedigree so we know what we obtain.
Certainly this counts for valuable hiddens such as new furs for which a lot of lindens are asked.
This wil answer all questions about hiddens as we can check it.
While I might consider to obtain a kitty with a valuable hidden I certainly don't when no pedigree is set up.

(03-07-2012 01:15 PM)Charlotte Calael Wrote:  Well i always have pedigree in auctions and for the best cats in my store. But you know SOME stuff cant be proven with granparents in pedigree. Some times you have to go back all the way to the starter.. But its a good point you said. And i dont trust people unless i can see it in the pedigree or its a friend of mine. Usually im not paying for hidden stuff at all i rather pay extra to se it shown.

Yes I agree it is not always to proof, I wish it was
And as you I rather obtain a shown or direct hidden.

[Charlotte Calael]

(03-07-2012 02:09 PM)Saga Felix Wrote:  Charlotte is correct, the cat in question is hiding Balinese Seal Lynx.

-And I never said it didn't... ;-)

What I did, was paste the link to the original post in this thread in Charlotte's advertise-post in the sales-forum. I did that because someone accused her of falsely advertising that cat, and I ASSUMED it was a case where either buyer or seller was confused as to what the cat might be hiding - so I thought that posting a link to this thread would be helpful.

BUT NOOO.... I opened a can of worms! -And for that, I am sorry. -And yes Charlotte, you can say that to anyone who asks, or anyone who says "But Saga said it's not hiding this..." -NOPE, Saga never said that! -Saga merely confused one issue with another issue - and hence posted a link that MADE an issue rather than solve one.

I am sorry about that. I hope this clears it up, and ends this particular part of this discussion.

Saga

Thank you so much Saga.

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(03-07-2012 02:32 PM)anna acanthus Wrote:  Well i'll post this here now Charlotte as your thread seems to have disappeared.

- In fact it was Ethereal's post which triggered off mine but i didn't realize which thread i was in and i wasn't talking about you or your kitty but in a general manner.
I did wonder about it when you first posted it but as i didn't have the pedigree or know both the parent's shown fur i couldn't really know anything for sure.
Anyhow glad it's been cleared up now.

Thank you Anna, for clearing that you were not really talking about panel 3 in todays auction. That makes so much more sense then

[Callie Cline]

hi all,

just wanted to chime in and make a request that if things about any person's claims or ideas or anything are in question by you or anyone, i request that it please be handled privately in SL or IM's or anywhere but the forums.

why? because we care very much about the community and protecting it as a whole. little things can get turned around into big things that can damage people's reputations. especially when we live in a "text" environment, often speaking to people with other native languages, and toss in our own moods, opinions, gossip and boy can a mess be had!!!!

we're fortunate that the KittyCatS! community is kind and respectful and works out most things in a very mature and respectful way.

for the future, if there are any questions about a specific seller/market, etc... again i'd ask that be taken to private im's.

thank you in advance for your understanding on this matter and i'm also happy you all cleared it up together.

i also think it's a good little rule to assume the best. of course it may not always be the case but in the long run, i've found it to be really beneficial to all parties.

you're all great and thank you for what you contribute to the community