The 9T for 100L "bargain"

[Deer Thistle]

(06-03-2014 09:21 PM)doubledareme Resident Wrote:  I have personally ...and not embarrassed to say it...shed tears during the process. I feel like I've released a work of art...a Bateman ....and then having that print be sold at the dollar store because Millpond didn't keep the value at a set level.

I want to see my cats valued. All good breeders...Artists...Want to see their product ...their creation valued. And I personally think that it starts with KittyCats. The reason being is that they would NEVER sell a cat for what we are. So why are they letting it happen in the secondary market . And they have done it in much bigger industries so it can be done at this level. Allowing others to devalue their cats eventually devalues KittyCats in general is is not good business.

Just asking for clarification: Are you suggesting that KittyCatS itself should find a way to regulate the prices on the secondary market? I didn't understand the 'they' that I italicized in what I quoted but interpreted that way.

If so, how could KittyCatS determine what's a reasonable price for each cat? There's so many factors to decide even in all nine traits such as retiredness, recessive, dominance, desired aesthetics, etc.

What price is okay in your eyes for selling a simple, cute cat for, regardless of traits? Or is it only the 9Ters going for the offending 100L that needs to be banned? How far do you think that this market regulation should go? Sounds like the already busy KittyCatS devs may need to add another dev on board if they decide to go with this suggestion (depending on how detailed you want the market to be regulated), assuming I interpreted your statement correctly.

[LyricaBlues Resident]

Quote:What price is okay in your eyes for selling a simple, cute cat for, regardless of traits? Or is it only the 9Ters going for the offending 100L that needs to be banned?...snip...Are you suggesting that KittyCatS itself should find a way to regulate the prices on the secondary market? I didn't understand the 'they' that I italicized in what I quoted but interpreted that way.

Ohh Deer! Your question is one that comes up soo often in RL. Of course these are not sentient beings, but strictly from a marketing perspective, it is often asked about in RL...In SL as in RL, over regulation is a slippery slope. That being said, there are ways to approach it the way we do in RL. Perhaps if KC had an option to sell kitties "breedable" as opposed to "pets" which cannot be bred. The non breedable ones you sell could be priced a bit lower pehaps.

Someone messaged me privately for clarification of my statement that I would Menagerie a kitty/box before i sell it for such ridiculous prices..Its as simple as why in RL i use spay/neuter agreements and the result is that i *never* did see my prefix on any shelter dogs even after 17 yrs of rescue and rehoming all breeds!..Here it just means that my kitties would be less likely to end up in the pedigree of a "box'o'kitties" i see at some boards. If a buyer cannot breed it, my hard work is protected from being devalued and only those who dont mind their breeding efforts sold for much less than starters will turn up in Box'O'Kitties. I guess its like a virtual spay/neuter. I would imagine that such a thing might drive the point home more clearly when shoppers begin 'reading the labels', so to speak, looking for 'brand names' they trust for quality rather than just buying the cheapest.

Quote:If so, how could KittyCatS determine what's a reasonable price for each cat? There's so many factors to decide even in all nine traits such as retiredness, recessive, dominance, desired aesthetics, etc.

Thats simple...alot of us have a rule of thumb per trait depending on the age and availability and desirability of the traits - then add something for size and if its among the most recessives. I think, however, that one clear point is that a kitty should not go for around 10L/trait. It Does devalue the cat and all the hard working breeders who made it possible to develop so many beautiful cats and combos.

[Deer Thistle]

(06-04-2014 12:48 PM)Deer Thistle Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 09:21 PM)doubledareme Resident Wrote:   And I personally think that it starts with KittyCats. The reason being is that they would NEVER sell a cat for what we are. So why are they letting it happen in the secondary market . And they have done it in much bigger industries so it can be done at this level. Allowing others to devalue their cats eventually devalues KittyCats in general is is not good business.

Just asking for clarification: Are you suggesting that KittyCatS itself should find a way to regulate the prices on the secondary market? I didn't understand the 'they' that I italicized in what I quoted but interpreted that way.

If so, how could KittyCatS determine what's a reasonable price for each cat? There's so many factors to decide even in all nine traits such as retiredness, recessive, dominance, desired aesthetics, etc.

(06-04-2014 02:19 PM)PrettyPoizen Resident Wrote:  Thats simple...alot of us have a rule of thumb per trait depending on the age and availability and desirability of the traits - then add something for size and if its among the most recessives. I think, however, that one clear point is that a kitty should not go for around 10L/trait. It Does devalue the cat and all the hard working breeders who made it possible to develop so many beautiful cats and combos.

Are you suggesting that KittyCatS adds in a script that somehow makes it so if your cat is X criteria, you can't sell that cat for a price lower than the devs/community has determined to be okay? Or have a script in place so 10L per trait is banned from being set for sale if that cat is a breeder? And as you go through this script, you need to choose if the cat is a breeder or a pet so that different pricing criteria comes up? Or do you want KittyCatS to have a dev that regularly checks each market for these deemed offending prices?

Sorry, just trying to understand the desired resolution to the forum topic based on the given responses and the "Thanks" supporting each.

[LyricaBlues Resident]

(06-04-2014 02:34 PM)Deer Thistle Wrote:  

(06-04-2014 12:48 PM)Deer Thistle Wrote:  

(06-03-2014 09:21 PM)doubledareme Resident Wrote:   And I personally think that it starts with KittyCats. The reason being is that they would NEVER sell a cat for what we are. So why are they letting it happen in the secondary market . And they have done it in much bigger industries so it can be done at this level. Allowing others to devalue their cats eventually devalues KittyCats in general is is not good business.

Just asking for clarification: Are you suggesting that KittyCatS itself should find a way to regulate the prices on the secondary market? I didn't understand the 'they' that I italicized in what I quoted but interpreted that way.

If so, how could KittyCatS determine what's a reasonable price for each cat? There's so many factors to decide even in all nine traits such as retiredness, recessive, dominance, desired aesthetics, etc.

(06-04-2014 02:19 PM)PrettyPoizen Resident Wrote:  Thats simple...alot of us have a rule of thumb per trait depending on the age and availability and desirability of the traits - then add something for size and if its among the most recessives. I think, however, that one clear point is that a kitty should not go for around 10L/trait. It Does devalue the cat and all the hard working breeders who made it possible to develop so many beautiful cats and combos.

Are you suggesting that KittyCatS adds in a script that somehow makes it so if your cat is X criteria, you can't sell that cat for a price lower than the devs/community has determined to be okay? Or have a script in place so 10L per trait is banned from being set for sale if that cat is a breeder? And as you go through this script, you need to choose if the cat is a breeder or a pet so that different pricing criteria comes up? Or do you want KittyCatS to have a dev that regularly checks each market for these deemed offending prices?

Sorry, just trying to understand the desired resolution to the forum topic based on the given responses and the "Thanks" supporting each.

No, thank you for your questions which open new areas of consideration. And I always thank people for the replies that show they are Thinking rather than just Reacting.

I would not expect KC to have to spot check the secondary market. But I do feel that breedable kittens could be set to a minimum per trait. In the end its the breeders who value their efforts who will be happy to protect the work they take pride and those will be the ones whose names buyers are looking for in the ped of their prospective kitty additions I can say from my experience that when i am on the hunt for a particular trait, the mere appearance of *some* names tips the scales for me! I know how they work, I trust the careful choices they make, and I trust the claims of purity for whatever trait. That is what sets them a breed apart from the box'o'kitty offerings. I always keep in mind that it costs as much to feed and breed so-so as it does excellence...Actually if you really do want to improve what you have, the bargains quickly turn into the Money Pits

[Ivy Norsk]

it's a complicated topic, but I will simply say right now that People like to give KittyCats as gifts. I like to give KittyCats as gifts.
But if you said pay so much minimum this wouldn't work. And if you said, minimum OR Free, then people could game the system.

[Petronilla Whitfield]

Price regulation? Well, okay, let’s discuss it. So far the only type of regulation mentioned has been to protect the sellers by setting minimum prices below which no one may sell.

What about consumer protection? If minimum prices are set to protect producers, surely it would only be fair to set maximum prices to protect consumers from price gauging? Fair regulation would establish both a minimum and a maximum price per trait.

Setting minimum prices would make sure that no one gets under-sold, protecting, as the argument here seems to be, producers from losing money in paying the costs of feeding and breeding kitties. Maximum pricing would prevent people who randomly get a new trait, or a mega-puss, or some such kitty, from selling it at inflated prices, taking unfair advantage of random luck.

Price regulation that consists only of an agreement among produces to fix prices is called a cartel. If the object of regulation is to protect the kitty-cat market, who would argue in favor of a cartel? If price regulation is desirable, surely it should protect all parties?

[Tad Carlucci]

We need a new forum section for Humor and Jokes so threads like this can be properly filed.

[Ethereal Hurricane]

(06-04-2014 08:25 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  We need a new forum section for Humor and Jokes so threads like this can be properly filed.

Sorry

[LyricaBlues Resident]

(06-04-2014 07:20 PM)Petronilla Whitfield Wrote:  Price regulation that consists only of an agreement among produces to fix prices is called a cartel. If the object of regulation is to protect the kitty-cat market, who would argue in favor of a cartel? If price regulation is desirable, surely it should protect all parties?

Your point is well taken and one I have mentioned before. In particular I remember commenting on how every time there is a new release, there are a few who immediately declare "a rare" and charge the highest prices for...Unfortunately, people often dont think about it before paying those prices and later could kick themselves for paying for 'instant rares'. In particular i recently saw a buyer sooo upset that she paid 15k for a pair of oci blacks only to see them a few days later for a fraction of the cost. She should have waited for the color to dry on that fur before buying. So when people ask what is the rare just one or two days into a release, I usually say "whatever you are looking for!" LOL

You are right, both sides should be protected by any adopted rule of thumb. Both buyers and trait breeders have risks.

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(06-04-2014 04:16 PM)Ivy Norsk Wrote:  it's a complicated topic, but I will simply say right now that People like to give KittyCats as gifts. I like to give KittyCats as gifts.
But if you said pay so much minimum this wouldn't work. And if you said, minimum OR Free, then people could game the system.

Yes it has many layers...and whatever is implemented, you can bet your last linden that there will be some looking to circumvent. Thats when I think breeders and buyers need to come to a common ground to protect both interests so that the value of good quality cats is stabilized and make it possible for breeders to continue to improve and enhance the population and for buyers to enjoy the wonderful cats that will be available as a result. As gifts, I dont see a problem with giving less expensive, "non breedable" kitties much like KC did with the firestorm kitties

[Vrem Vaniva]

I think it would be interesting if KittyCats could somehow create an Online Marketplace where we could list our kittens to be sold through them! Make gigantic website ... where shoppers could "let your fingers do the walkin'" and use filters to find the sought-after kitties, and then select from a list of available ones. (To make it super-easy, you could tick a checkbox on the Pedigree page saying "allow this kitty to be listed for sale on the monster kitty market" -- and KC could take a 5 percent cut, as linden labs does on the SL Marketplace. ) It's the only way I could think of that would allow our home-bred, traited kitties to be sold under the aegis of KittyCatS. At that point it might even be feasible to institute a "minimum price" thing as Deianira ( doubledareme) proposes. But KittyCats has carefully left the Secondary Market to us to work out for ourselves, so it seems unlikely that they'd want to undertake such a thing.
Meanwhile, some kitty sims do offer pricing guidelines -- even minimum price rules -- for cats sold on their land.
How about a nice ... free speech movement, peace , love , happiness, Mario Savio kind of thing?
BOYCOTT too-cheap kittens! (Just as some of us heeded the calls to protect migrant farm worker labor ... Don't buy Grapes! Don't buy Lettuce! -- and then when a representative of Florida OJ made gay-bashing slurs ... Don't Buy Orange Juice!) ) If you ever gave up grapes, lettuce, or orange juice for altruistic reasons ... maybe you can pass up a kitten bargain. (I am wondering ... am i strong enough to do that?)