New Traits Too Often ?

[Hathor Xaris]

Well this may sound a bit harsher but in a nutshell what I said just in case you don't care to read ALL that TEXT I just posted on the 1st page here it is in a tinier paragraph: The community Really needs to just grow up and change the way they do things and change "how" they are competitive with one another, and whatever happens don't try to blame everything on everyone else especially KittyCats! themselves, just change your behavior, change your attitude, and you will change everything! And for the love of the KittyGods "some" of you just need to just STOP taking advantage of other's on PURPOSE, Shame on you!!! Nature does not support that kind of behavior so just Watchout! what comes around most certainly goes around...just watch

[LyricaBlues Resident]

Wonderful Post Hathor! and Yes, you are so right about customer service and most importantly about breeding for what i call The Classics. As someone relatively new to SL breeding, I believe that as in RL breeding showdogs, there is great value and forethought in laying a firm foundation. If we dont do that what is available now will become the "rares" of tomorrow. I love to work with recessive retired coats and eyes. For me, I find greater value in collecting good specimens of those than chasing only new ones...I figure there is time to get those. Plus, i have to confess I get a kick out of unburying some pretty retired eyes out from under alot of other stuff...Like today I got down right giddy when i untangled the proverbial "gordian knot" of eyes and pulled out Jade eyes that were way back there. Old RL habits die hard on SL LOL

(04-22-2014 09:04 AM)Hathor Xaris Wrote:  I wholly agree with Pretty about the likes and dislikes , she makes a very good point.
You will often find in my cattery I purposely breed for very old dominant things and that's only because I favor them and I know that my customers favor them too, one side of my cattery is not about new things at all but match the prettiest things together, and albiet the new things are pretty too, but sometimes when comes to being an artist time kinda loses its meaning, we look up one moment and 2 new things are out look up the next and they aren't new anymore, sometimes we can't really judge how times passes for an artist life is usually temporal, they tend to be patient adaptable ppl, who probably care more about pretty cats than having the latest fur, and are patient enuf to wait out the price wars.

I also however do like to cater to all kinds of breeders as customers, so i also breed cats for breeding, this automatically means that I will always try to stock the most recessive furs available because these furs are the ones ppl will try to use the most to pull new furs from starters

Oooh and she also makes VERY good point in the middle part of her post about prices in general and how the fact that ppl who can't afford to feed their cats are forced to sell things waaay too cheaply this makes is virtually impossible like she said for anyone to sell those cats ever again for higher value, and yes that is the way the cookie crumbles unfortunately, It is natural when you love something sometimes you love it just a little "too" much, lol, I'm sure we all know what thats like, so a any amount of tolerance and understanding when you do see ppl selling things for peanuts is appreciated I'm sure on their part, its the way it goes, it brings certain flavor to our economy actually, for ppl who first start out it's great and it helps them I know there's a little give and take in every topic, and i do have a habit of trying to always see things from both sides.

Although I would like to also add my 2 cents here about the pricing topic in particular...

I don't price "some" of my cats all wild and crazy like the prices I saw when I first started buying cats, and this may upset those who do they say things like this destroys the "integrity of kittycats " when I see it just the other way around, charging outlandish prices for would be dominant traits that know even knows is dominant yet because its the tendency of competitive breeders to start out testing the new furs with the very most recessive traits, yes this is natural to want to be the best in your field, yes indeed we all want that we all want to succeed so we will naturally all tend to be a bit competitive regardless of where are good intentions lie, this behavior should just be perceived as normal, however what erks me tho is how one can get away with charging so much for a questionable new trait and say do not do so would hurt the integrity of the market, but doesn't getting burned by paying waaaaay too much for a cat actually HURT the integrity of kittycats community far more?

Since in essence mostly the reason why something depreciates in value IS because of it's dominance being discovered. OR perhaps we have an interesting week of breeding weather and we look around and everyone suddenly sees snowshoe creams everywhere and they are all marking their prices down, kinda weird tho cause it supposed to be recessive, and hasn't the same happened to balinese creams did it not? didn't they just happen to suddenly overnight become prolific even though they are supposed to be recessive and so sometimes there will be things outta our control that determine marketability and prices. The Current present Rarity of any trait regardless of how new it is is also a BIG factor in determining the current value of a cat, That should very well be taken into consideration as well. I believe this all to be most certain and thats's just another way the cookie continues to crumble I guess...

Perhaps what we really need to do is all take a step back and just try to control our uhm addictions a little to avoid the peanut sales and erm perhaps try to have "patience" and wait it out before selling off our brand spanking new traits at outlandish prices before REAL dominance has even been discovered, perhaps mix it up a bit try a few aby ruddys in there with your foxies and snowshoe creams and choc torties, it's fun i promise, its just as much a lotto that way too, and when you loose you're actually helping the community with valuable info and so no one actually loses, ithink this is the best most mature standpoint to have, but it's your choice if you want to agree with me, just my opinion...

If someone makes a buck today but only by hurting another person versus someone makes less today in order to maintain a long term valued customer base maybe thats the better way to look at things, all I know is in SL just like in RL a little customer service goes a very very long way.

And one more thing about KittyCats! in particular, it is their job to keep releasing things mysteriously the way they do, and in the amount they do, and to always keep us guessing, trust me when I say as customers we wouldn't actually want it any other way, as marketeers I would assume they know best and have and know exactly what it takes to be # 1 in their field, so hats off to them for a job well done, I don't disagree with the way they release their traits at all I think its good to have a variety in the dominant/recessive furs otherwise it would just be too easy and no one would care to breed anymore, I think we should all for the most part trust that they know exactly what they are doing and get ready for all the wonderful things I'm sure they have planned for us in the near future and above all be grateful for how much hard work actually goes into something of this magnitude, I'm not joking when I say they make it look easy, but no matter what I'm sure you will have ppl who think it is too hard, but it should be hard...that justifies the value of the more recessive furs, I just hope everyone will attempt to maintain their good common sense to not screw over your fellow player with things no one even knows if it is recessive yet, but perhaps all the good we do know about in the community will continue to give all of us the motivation needed to continue on in a respectable manner

[Crepe Myrtle]

I am 110% behind Hathor and Pretty. It's all about fun so let those creative ideas flow in us and make those wonderful kitties whether old or new traits.

(04-22-2014 10:15 AM)Hathor Xaris Wrote:  Well this may sound a bit harsher but in a nutshell what I said just in case you don't care to read ALL that TEXT I just posted on the 1st page here it is in a tinier paragraph: The community Really needs to just grow up and change the way they do things and change "how" they are competitive with one another, and whatever happens don't try to blame everything on everyone else especially KittyCats! themselves, just change your behavior, change your attitude, and you will change everything! And for the love of the KittyGods "some" of you just need to just STOP taking advantage of other's on PURPOSE, Shame on you!!! Nature does not support that kind of behavior so just Watchout! what comes around most certainly goes around...just watch

[Tolla Crisp]

I understand we can all get frustrated when we work so hard but this is a free market in sl that KC has so graciously provided for us and we all may choose to participate at the level that suits our needs.
We all take a risk as well: the more collection kittens we buy, the more linden we spend to buy those kittens, feed all those kittens, and then expend out time and energy to manage them to the best of our ability.
Regardless of how many kittens we buy, we all have the same risk and/or luck to find new traits. This is part of what makes it so exciting and enjoyable.
If you only buy 10 Easter kittens, like myself, then you reap the luck or (or not so much luck) of those 10 kittens. If you spend the linden to buy 100 kittens, then you also reap the luck or the down fall of those 100 kittens.
Please do not try to take anything away from those that do participate at a more aggressive level: they pay for it, they spend the hours working it, and then they share all those new and wonderful traits with us.
KC provides us with hours of enjoyment, challenges, surprises, and endless opportunity to express our talent and creativity with loads of new traits on a regular basis.
Do not cry over this. Jump in with both feet, do your best to make lovely kittens, and enjoy the friendships that you make along the way.

---

Oh, btw, I do feel the pain regarding price. And yes, I do see some that seem to be so desperate for linden that they will sell a 5T Siamese Chocolate Tortie for 5000L, yikes. I can not assume that I know why they made this sale, maybe they were just being super nice, helping a newcomer, or maybe they just needed the linden today. I know I did this same thing when I was very new and did not fully understand the market. I am sure they had a very good reason. At the end of the day we get over it and go on to make even nicer kittens and then enjoy sharing them in the community.

[Deer Thistle]

Just stating as an individual who doesn't partake in the secondary market much anymore and lacks that competitive flair that may make a person more emotionally-driven in-game...please, bring on the new traits. Often. Whenever possible. I love breeding and I love seeing new traits, even if I'm not the owner or discoverer. I neither am the first to discover nor do I find new traits anymore due to not putting as much money into the releases as I used to (I love KittyCatS but I'm way, way busier RL than I was in 2011-2013 to manage such a massive cattery) and I accept that. I'm not bitter at all, it's just the reality of the situation; you get out what you put in, and even then it's a major gamble in this game. I also don't mind waiting it out a bit on the secondary market to acquire a new trait that piques my interest.

More or less at its core, KittyCatS is a game for breeding interactive cats and making beautiful combinations into long-term goals (or short-term, if lucky!), not about making money to support a person's SL and RL. It's wonderful to earn money on the side too to support the hobby - I know this very well - but that shouldn't conflict with progressing the game through the introduction of new traits.

To be honest, I remember seeing a thread like this a year or so ago when I was very active in the secondary market and had the ability to religiously attend multiple auctions per week, and I still felt this way. I couldn't understand why anyone wouldn't be excited about new traits. New traits equal new opportunities to make new combinations for our beloved KittyCatS, we should all be excited for this aspect alone.

PS: This game isn't linear and acquiring the most recent recessive fur isn't really 'catching up'; the game is open-ended and allows breeders to pick and choose their goals. You aren't more progressed by finding the most recessive fur unless you make that your personal goal. Some people prefer to breed dominant traits while others strive to create the most recessive cat possible, some people don't even factor in dominant versus recessive traits, they just breed what they deem beautiful and turn it into a goal. Just because your personal goal conflicts with the newest fur discovery, Abyssinian - Dark Chocolate, happening to be recessive doesn't mean that the remainder of KittyCatS players should lose the possibility of new traits in order for those niche recessive breeders to 'catch up.' If anything, we should celebrate the addition of this new fur to our game no matter its dominant/recessive stance as it's one more addition on the trait palette for community members to work with if they find the fur compelling.

[Vrem Vaniva]

Great things have been said in this thread! I love it.
This issue about "new ultra-recessive traits coming out too often" did come up a couple of years ago ... It was an urgent call to slow down so breeders could catch up.
My perception is that KittyCats did respond to that, by having a lot of the new traits be more dominant ones. Soon after I read about this problem, we got Odyssey Burst eyes ... and other traits similarly pretty but not with killer-recessivity. Notice how the Tapestry eyes span the whole range from "quite dominant" to "quite recessive." KC is listening to us

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

(04-19-2014 02:12 PM)AngelaHillton Resident Wrote:  Hi

I just wanted to have a discusion about new traits being released too often ...

Now we have a new recessive the Aby - Dark Chocolate, thanks to that guy for figuring it was the new most recessive thanks to breeding it with a chocolate tortie, strange thing to do but congratulations on your very sucessful breedings that always amaze me how you do it.

What do the Easter cats hold for us ? Possible more new recessive traits so soon ?

Personally i feel like too many traits are being released too soon, its not giving breeders a chance to catch up in the game with anything unless you have yourself a ton of money like some people who can buy 100+ cats, no names mentioned.

It seems to me this is all about making a whole lot of money off customers while trying to force the smaller breeders to get more and more starter kittens to keep up with the ever increasing influx of recessive traits.

Personally i feel like quitting at the moment and by speaking to alot of other people im thinking they are feeling the same way too at the moment.

Please KittyCats I plead you give us a fair chance to catch up a little in the game before releasing so many recessive traits so soon to each other. I know its kind of fun for people and really loved this when i started out with kittycats but now find its getting boring with the ever incresing effort to keep up without seeming to make much if any profit back from doing this.

Whats your thoughts on this ?

P.S A bit off topic but whats the fun in finding anything new when a certain someone will find 10 or 15 of the same thing a day or 2 later after discovery and then take mass domination of the market ? It would be great for some randomisation in kittycats so this does not happen time and time again to certain people.

I just wish normal people could find new traits, its always same people or their alts.

[Ivy Norsk]

That's because they buy more lottery tickets, i.e., LE cats. The process is random. They just up their statistical chances by buying more kitties. Also, I suspect, they have a large cattery of very recessive 9 trait kitties ready and waiting to breed with the starters that will show the new traits. And I think they feed love drops etc., to speed up the process. So it's money, plus preparation, plus diligence, plus luck.

That's just the way it is. And people need to be responsible and only breed as many cats as they can afford. One can only chase new traits so far. One doesn't need to go all Pokemon "gotta catch them all."
As for how quickly the traits are released, the so-many so-fast is actually a way to diversify the market, so that one person doesn't always get them All. It is a shame when the ultra-recessives traits are trounced quickly though.