New Releases Hurting the Breeders

[Tad Carlucci]

How LARGE were those collections? More importantly, how did they compare on the number of new traits discovered? I know, I could look in the other thread and see some of that .. call me lazy.

It looked to me .. and I want to stress this was just an impression .. as if there was an up-tick in the number of people dropping out at about the time the Spring collections would have been aging-out. MMOGS like Second Life have always had doldrums over the summer (and that observation goes wayyyyyy back to the early 80s), so I sorta expect it. But if it's related to something like the size of the collections or the number of new traits being discovered .. that is most definitely something the company can work on and it most definitely helps all the markets .. ours and theirs.

[Sanura Snowpaw]

I love the excitement of finding, buying and selling new traits but I get so sad to see an amazing cat that you can tell someone has put a lot of work breeding into and it goes for no sale or very cheap. Older furs and traits deserve love too!

[Sara Franco]

I agree, and I think this problem has 2 sides, one is US, buyers and sellers.
Many breeders are willing to pay a fortune for a kitty with a new trait with all genesis other traits just because it has something new, and they ignore a very good kitty with a great combination.
For sellers, many rush selling their kitties with new traits before they add good other traits to them for low prices, they don't mind dropping prices and destroying the market just to sell fast but I don't blame them much though because they are afraid that prices would drop more if they wait because a new release is always coming soon and that's the other side of the problem.

The other side is the KC company, I believe they released tooooooo many new traits at once lately and I'm very against that, I see some new traits go on bidboards for 500L$, because there are too many other new traits so not all of them are valued, so what chance old traits have?

I don't think we need all these new traits at once, we like to have a variety but why to not have a break between new releases to work on them? Sellers rush drooping prices mainly because they know another release is coming, and that what causes the market problem in my opinion.

Before I wake up from the shock of the 4 new furs, 2 eyes, 3 ears and a tail discovered in a very short time I got another shock when 5 Fancies were discovered in few days. I don't think we needed 5 new Fancies in a week.
That's plus the new tigers that were released not long after Halloween, and there is also winter Kitties coming in few days, We are running in a RACE to keep up with all that.

As I said somewhere in the forum before, I dunno where to spend my money, new traits, Jewels or old good combos or on feeding more kitties, I can't afford all of that at once so I get frustrated at times and I don't buy any, and I'm pretty sure many have the same feeling and that's not good for the company itself because some give up the whole breeding thing.

As a buyer I prefer a good combination, it is almost impossible to build the 9 traits from scratch, I tried that as a challenge when I first joined KC but I ended nowhere and wasted much time and money, so I very value a good combination that helps my project, and I don't go crazy buying kitties with no potential just because they have a new trait. And I believe I'm not the only one at all.

And from my personal experience as a seller, a good effort is still appreciated at least by some, my first new trait I got from a starter and probably last , was the Foxie Auburn, but I never sold any non-traited ones, and I'm still very stubborn about dropping their prices, because I work on them and improve them, so I VALUE them and the price paid on them is like an appreciation to my work in my opinion, I sold very few because I keep many (I keep 9 live Foxies at the moment ) which are involved in projects but I earned well from the few ones I sold because some still appreciate a good combination, Of course I don't sell now at the same price when the Foxie was very new but I still try to not underprice them.

It is not that I'm greedy, it is not about the money, in fact If I sell more Foxies for lower prices instead of keeping them to work on them I'd make more money but I want my Foxies to be valued and appreciated because I value them myself and I never mind taking them back home if they don't sell. And I would do the same with any new trait or a good project I'm working on -All my projects are unfinished though -.

I'm not saying that I do better than others at all, I'm still learning. I'm just saying, if you do an effort and value the result yourself, others will, well at lest some will.

For KC company, Please give us breaks between new releases, I like new releases and they are so exciting but give us time to enjoy breeding them and our other projects.

Sorry for the long reply, but in this topic especially I needed to vent .

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(12-01-2012 11:40 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  How LARGE were those collections? More importantly, how did they compare on the number of new traits discovered? I know, I could look in the other thread and see some of that .. call me lazy.

...

RFL 2011 Seasons of hope was a collection of 4 with 4 different passible eyes, at that time they were only available via these specials.
Later on they released them in their regular starters as well.

RFL 2012 Steam Punk Introduced the wavy whisker and the Fussy tail the last one I'm not sure about and I have the feeling the wavy whiskers are at least currently exclusive to the RFL's.

[Sara Franco]

(12-02-2012 08:21 AM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  RFL 2012 Steam Punk Introduced the wavy whisker and the Fussy tail the last one I'm not sure about and I have the feeling the wavy whiskers are at least currently exclusive to the RFL's.

Yes I think the wavy is exclusive to them but I'm sure the Fussy isn't as I got it from a Baroque Baby myself.

[Vampiva Belfire]

I think that new release of collectors KC cannot stop, because is the essence. I know that is it short time, so many traits, furs in few time. I agree it with Sara, but I missed that this year not Thanks Giving KC, and in few time come Christmas kitties for luck.
I love collections kittycats, of new tigers make me crazy. I got Le Tigrel Bengal finally, after of five hours of hard menagerie in home, menagerie in many work babys with 7, 8, 9 traits, included bengal tanwy with few traits, we don´t have more kitties for sell in main store, few kitties to make sibling in the future..., but is only the way to get this special collection.
Every kitty is so special, I love of old fur Black Russian, I feel so super emotion when born with Big Boo Boo tail after breed, breed, breed...... got, I wish so more breed in this fur, vampires ears (9T), step by step and pacience.
The community can enjoy of diverse groups where can check or ask of price if you don´t know it, but thinking too in you dedication, of time to make possible you cute, adorable, lovely or beautiful and unique KC to share with the community in the market or auction.
:heart:Kittycats is wonderful breedable and community too, for me is the best in SL.

[Devilness Chant]

Pros and cons to the trait boom we've had. Yeah it lessens the value of them when they're so dom and a lot of ppl are getting them. What makes traits worth more are the rarity, and popularity of them.
But I think ppl really needed the boost. What I mean is, I noticed a lot of ppl getting a bit...say...cranky to see so few get new traits when so many weren't. It's a really exciting feeling to look at a box from a starter and see you got something new. It's one of the fun parts of breeding.
I had gotten a few of those new rare traits, and noticed that while most didn't get too rude, they resented it. I got to the point I was almost embarrassed to say anything about a box i got. I felt like if I posted traits into any chat, ppl would feel like I was rubbing it in, or like one person said, I was bragging. So I got to the point I only told one close friend cause I knew they would be excited for me, but didn't want to tell others cause I didn't want them to feel bad or resent me.
I haven't gotten anything from the Halloweens, and yes I get frustrated with them and want to nuke them all sometimes. But in a way I'm relieved. I had made up my mind if I got anything new I wouldn't say anything cept to a few friends.
Our community is made up of a lot of wonderful supportive ppl. Seeing so many get their chance at that excitement is wonderful. And I think it's gone a long way to make breeding more fun for everyone.
Cons...Too many new traits too fast have really flooded the market and made them less appreciated. I think this boost has been wonderful, but I do believe for future new traits it should be a bit less. Less new traits, less dom traits. An even mix of dom and rec would be nice. So that more still get a chance for that great rush and others work pays off. It may create a better stability for for secondary market as well.
And yes we are in over kill on the new starters. There's not a break in between to breed out the one batch of starters before the next comes out. I'm still breeding Callabs + Halloween starters and it's already time for the christmas kitties to come out. Many of us can't all afford a large cattery, and breeding one hopeful starter means opening more boxes. A cattery can grow really fast or we can just fall behind on everything which makes it really frustrating and takes a lot of the fun out of it when you have to nuke good kitties to make room for a hopeful.
This is also a good reason for the one week wait on new borns instead of two. (Not to bring up a sore subject) But it could let us know earlier if we need to move on to the next starter, or know earlier if we're breeding a (excuse the expression) dud. It would save us all time and money, so that we can breed out our desired kitties.

[Tad Carlucci]

On the subject of the aging-in period, waiting for cats to produce their first box, which was recently brought up in another thread ...

When I look at the number of active players and the last time they were "active" I think the data strengthens the case for NOT reducing the aging-in period. I know it can be hard for those who are active every day to believe, but the data suggests that the "typical" player actually only checks on their cats on a weekly basis. Shortening the aging-in period shifts the advantage toward those intensively breeding on a daily basis and away from those working only occasionally.

It's all-but impossible to work out an "average cattery size" from the web-based information; but the company could certainly do that. In their place, would use that, along with frequency of activity, and the down-stream effects such as I mentioned in the other thread, to help inform my decision as to the appropriate length of the age-in period. My personal feeling is that, all things considered, the age-in period is about right and no changes are warranted.

[Brandon Dawson]

I'm just a bit overwhelmed with the amount of KC content that's been released recently, I try my best to keep up but at this point it's frustrating that I can't. It's not KittyCats' fault that us breeders can't find enough fancicat gems and menagerie boxes to buy all the new tigers and fancicats, I'm not going to blame them - but on top of gems + new traits, I haven't even finished breeding out my halloween cats and now we have the holiday cats knocking on the door in the next couple weeks or so.

As a secondary market I understand how this all works, but at the same time, if the Xmas collection is a large collection (considering last year, the Xmas collection reformed the market completely.. Balineses were released and Balis were selling for ridiculous amounts and in high demand for an extremely long time, I'm wondering if this next collection will introduce more cats that will define the secondary market again?)

It's hard to say, but I'm looking at cutting off my halloween breeding projects soon to make room for the christmas kitties.

[Giuliana Verrazzano]

I think the release of collectible edition cats per se is not a problem. I have seen people wishing to have a new collection in almost every single holiday or important celebrated event around the world and considering they are all starters, beautiful and each of them have something special and lovely that attracts people to buy them we all might find a good reason to get them. My issue is the size of the Collection (# of new LE available and the # of cats you have to buy in order to get the entire collection) and the # of new traits available with each Collection considering how little time there is between one collection and the next.

As many said, I'm still breeding previous LE kitties, I'm one of those who don't let them go until I'm 100% sure of each of their hidden secrets so I still have quite a few of them not giving up their shades or whiskers and my job gets harder considering the fact that some starters might not hide these traits. So there are quite a few things here and there that delay our breeding projects and I accept these things as the nature of the breeding game and actually it makes my hobby a bit more interesting and "rewarding" when I finally get the traits I want to pass, but it can be hard when I'm still half way through with a cat and I already have another special edition at my door step which in my brain traduces as a constant reminder of the potential of new traits.

Would the number of traits exclusive to a specific Limited Edition have a positive influence in the secondary market? I haven't seen many Wavy whiskers around to give an example, but this is the only trait I can think of at the moment that is not everywhere in the market and it was exclusive of a specific Collection. Is it a coincidence? My observations are just that, and I haven't carried out any serious collection of data on it. Anyone has observed similar things with traits exclusive of certain collections?

What about releasing Collectibles without new traits? I know I would still buy them, it would please the Collector heart that beats inside of us and it would give us something to dream about whenever Equinox torture us with her "hints" but it won't forcibly shower us all with new traits again when we are still discovering new traits from the previous collection (a new eye was discovered from the Halloween Collection only yesterday!)

Very interesting thread this one. Thanks for bringing this up!

Giulia

Note: I figured I would add up to what Kay said
Seasons of Hope 2011 (RFL) carried the Gerbera Eyes which were 4 and are not available through starters (but I think there are so many still available in the secondary market that it feels like they are)

The Steampunk Collection 2012 (RFL) carried Wavy whiskers and It's still exclusive to those starters. Fussy tail was discovered by breeding the Fun Flowers and the Delectable Darlings which were the Easter LE of 2012, but this tail is available in starter cats bought from the store or in new LE released.