Asking, pleading for kittys to gain love from day one.

[dakillakm Resident]

(11-28-2012 08:08 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  That means, 25% more people will be producing 'improvements' each generation. And that means the desirability of any cat will be lowered. Why purchase if, baring exceedingly bad luck, you'll produce it on your own?

ok I think it just clicked! Somehow I was looking at it from a slightly different angle but after reading this I can see what you mean and I think you definitely have a point here; considering a lot of the market is driven by people looking for an simpler route to a more or better traited cat. If the decrease in marketability became that much lower then it would, therefore, be the longer term problem you and others describe.

I guess I may have to give up my 7 day box dreams now...

[Saga Felix]

(11-27-2012 09:05 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  

(11-27-2012 11:05 AM)Saga Felix Wrote:  Oh, and to the few that insinuates that those who suggests things will never be happy anyway, let me say: When I started in KittyCatS, there were 3 major things I wished would change: Unpack-time, gender on boxes, and the kittens' time to grow up. 3 things. 2 of them have already happened, and I think we can all agree that those are good things, and that KittyCatS fixed these things brilliantly.
-I am sure that this last thing would also be a good thing, but I do not think it will happen. Why? Well, simply because too many people disagree, and I don't think KittyCatS would force a change that could split the community.
-But even if I think it's unlikely to happen, I will stand by the last of "my 3 wishes" any time :-)
-Saga

So just because your other 2 ideas (which were pretty good, and generally agreed upon by the almost the entirety of the community, probably even before YOU posted them), saying this change, by default, should get made is just plain silly.

Oh dear... Oh dear oh dear oh dear. I have had my words twisted many times, but your skills in this discipline beats 'em all, Ethereal. Well done ;-)

(11-27-2012 09:05 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  You guys gang up on people who disagree with you, and hey, that's basically how every society works anyway, so it's not surprising, but I for one wont give in.

Yes. It sure is all society's fault. All of it. Shame on us all. -And society. Bad, bad, bad society!


-Yes, the above is written with irony. -And that is because I have a hard time taking you seriously, Ethereal. That, however, has nothing to do with ganging up on you, as I have not at all discussed you with anyone. -And I assure you, I am in no "gangs"
It seems to me you are against stuff just for the sake of being against, and when people react on the fact that you are against stuff in a very impolite and dismissive manner, they're "ganging up" on you. Uhmm... No, really, I assure you noone's ganging up on anyone. -And you claiming that we all are is actually rather impolite, and speaks more about your view on other people than the other way around.

I would urge you to please consider your attitude - in this little community, it is my experience that MUCH can be forgiven and forgotten if only you treat people politely. Try it. It really, really works :-)

-Saga

[penfold83 Resident]

Ekkk i never knew one little idea would get heated up like this, please ethereal it not a my gang says this your gang says that ie bandwagon sigh.

I really hopped this thread would be a idea thing let peeps meet in the middle, rejuvenate a idea that was looked past before.
It would of been nice for to no's and the yes's peeps too meet in the middle and put forward the case......How so wrong i thought (

[dakillakm Resident]

I just had a revelation and it involved understanding the mathematically complex brain of Tad! Surely this is a breakthrough worth getting back on topic for XD

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(11-28-2012 10:45 PM)dakillakm Resident Wrote:  I just had a revelation and it involved understanding the mathematically complex brain of Tad! Surely this is a breakthrough worth getting back on topic for XD

ROFL Tad masters the difficult explanations in excelence!
I love the variety of individuals in KC and how they write so much!
Please don't stop with being you Tad.
I don't understand you always but that doesn't matter I would truely miss your extra-ordinary contributions very much if you stopped them
And you too Ethereal you have absolutely a very frank way of putting things and stirring things up.
Okay it can come off rude sometimes wether intentional or not why apparantly good points you make are frequently missed sadly and get lost in the battle but you are valued too!
At least by me :-)

[Ethereal Hurricane]

@the legendary saga

You don't have to discuss anything to go show your suppose for your friends. Let's not bicker over details, you and Khea share a stall together on too adorable, you're clearly more than just acquaintances, but that's one assumption, the other would be that she literally gives you a thanks, on basically every post you make, such as the one you just did, which was nothing more than you talking to me, which I guess deserves a thanks?

Play stupid all you guys want, you're all friends, and you're doing what friends do, defend each other. If I've ever openly 'attacked' you guys, as you seem to think I'm doing, it's because you guys provoked it. You, Khea, and Anne seem to think every time I post, its to insult someone, when in fact my first post was this....

(11-25-2012 03:34 AM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  I'd wager the reason they don't change it when people ask, is because they need to have a buffer between when your new generations can breed, and all it takes is them bending to change one time, and people will just ask for the next thing.

If they make it so cats gain love right away, in a few months people will just start asking for it to take 5 days instead of 10 days, and then 1 day instead of 5 days, and so on. You might say "That's just silly", but history in ANY situation like this, proves, that's what will, in fact, happen.

Tell me how that was being mean, or disrespectful to penfold? Please....show me.

Oh maybe it was my second post...lets see

(11-25-2012 09:45 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  

(11-25-2012 03:12 PM)Khea Karas Wrote:  I agree with Penfold. Its much easier to pair kittens back to parents if it takes only 7 days (one breeding cycle) to reach breeding age than to wait approx 14 days (2 breeding cycles). Cutting back breeding lifespan to accommodate the extra week would be a good compromise. It will not change how many kittens a cat breeds, just let them breed their first time sooner.

Its funny because this topic has been bought up before and alot of people then agreed it would be a great idea when Saga mentioned this. How people change their minds....just saying

The point of the extra seven days is so that you CAN'T just make it simple and easy to breed back to the parent. Everyone trying to make a case for the change to be made is only suggesting it because it would make things easier. It's already easy, why does it need to be easier?

Heck, in the current state of KittyCatS, you don't even have to try anymore to discover hidden traits, because the most recessive furs/eyes/ears/whiskers/etc can be found on cats probably just sitting at the love shack because their owner has 100 of the same thing. Making things easier is unnecessary.

I'm tired of people asking for changes just so things are easier, and breeding takes less time. This isn't the land of everyone deserves to have everything instantly. Earn your cats. Everyone else plays the waiting game, so can you.

And just FYI, not everyone agrees every time saga says something
http://www.kittycats.biz/forum/showthrea...363&page=1


* obligatory statement to follow*

Let the kittens grow and mature, you wouldn't want your real kid stepping foot out of the womb, already ready for sex would you?

(Sorry for quoting you again Khea...I had to though to prove a point...)

Man look how I just attack people in that one, I mentioned someone's name as a response to a quoted text, see how I just ruthlessly lay into all the posters above me as well? Man they deserved it so bad...and yet I manage to basically stay 100% on topic...CRAZYYYYY

/sarcasm off

Well since we're this far, lets check out my next post...

(11-27-2012 02:42 AM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  

(11-26-2012 08:34 PM)dakillakm Resident Wrote:  Well, let me not insinuate; I was talking about the cranky ratings troll, Ethereal muhahaha But, let me say that it is easy to misread the tone of things, and I think Ethereal was only expressing her frustration at people wanting easy and instant gratification in a general manner. However, when one is sick and sleepy and frustrated with her stubborn kitties it is easy to take a little offense at the suggestion that wanting things to be more convenient is, necessarily, wanting things to be handed to you.

Well first off, thank you for bestowing upon me, the glorious title of 'Cranky Ratings Troll". I have worked night and day, day and night, hitting that 1 star rating on every post I see, tirelessly, endlessly, to attain the prestigious...yeah I'm done with that....

Hopefully you didn't take me seriously when I suggested that I would actually waste my time down-voting threads (that is not to say that I've never 1 starred a thread before, I have). I could care less for the most part what people post, and I post very openly against people, and hold no grudges. I would rather get my post edited by Callie and speak my mind, than downrate a thread for a malicious reason.

Now, that's cleared up, back to business!

I'm against threads like this for one reason; no one has yet offered an idea that would suggest it would be better for the community as a whole to allow this type of change. No matter how you try to string it along, the change is only beneficial to the individual breeder. People try to argue that if you get an early breed, just take it off the end of the cats life, sure, that's all well and good in simple a+b=c rudimentary math (yeah, that's a call back to an old thread....), but when you get down to it, a cat is more valuable at the beginning of its life, not at the end. 100 days later that cat probably has great great grand kids, with better traits. So that alone makes the change not fair and balanced. This type of change has no real benefit other than breeding early.

People who suggest these ideas don't look at the big picture, they look at the simple, instant effect, and disregard anything long term. The last thread like this died with no 'real' solid ideas for why or how this change should be made, and this thread will most likely die the same way. This is why I shoot ideas like this down, because they're not good. I'm sorry if that is offensive to the people suggesting them, but hey, not every idea ever thought of is good. ^__^

With Love,
Your friendly neighborhood Cranky Ratings Troll <3

Hey look, I'm joking here with someone, I explain it's a joke, then I move back onto the topic....I'm so malicious it kills me! I even clearly explain why I'm against the idea....so brutal!

(in the spirit of saving space....I'll just link to my next post)
http://www.kittycats.biz/forum/showthrea...2#pid19292

Man in that one I respond to everyone who has mentioned me, then I get to Khea, who is clearly upset that I quoted her and I apparently called her a bunch of bad names or something, because she was so seriously angry with me for quoting her in a forum...on the internet...

Which again...I poke fun at, because it's just silly at this point, on this post here:
http://www.kittycats.biz/forum/showthrea...5#pid19295

And after that post, I'm clearly just defending myself while throwing the fire back at people...and then I go back to the topic at hand....which as I understand it, is proper forum etiquette. Not just crying that someone is bothering them, then huffing and puffing.

Anyway, you guys are welcome to keep it up, I really don't mind. You've called me a troll, which is funny, because in my opinion you're just trolling yourselves. You get mad at me for posting, then ragepost some worthless response, usually not even based on anything I wrote.

I'll leave you guys to your world of everyone must agree with you.

Oh btw, if you wanted help learning how to not be a _______, I sell lessons. For example, here is a free one in common decency: notice how when I respond to devilness...

(11-28-2012 07:32 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  Anyway, back to the thread, I agree with you devilness, surprisingly, but the problem is, there ARE people who are just out to make a buck, and IMO, this type of thing would help that along, as seen by some responses in this thread, about how cats are valued, and traits dropping in price.

Making a change just so people can make more money, would be wrong, and that's how I've read it out to be. Saga mentioned that traits become less valuable, and you lose your return on them before you can get them worked in. Not to be contradict myself, but isn't that line of thinking purely from an economic standpoint? You're saying this change should happen so people don't lose their money on an investment? I said this change shouldn't be made because it would change the economy. That isn't a good reason to make a change.

I actually said I liked her idea, which I did, but then I try to explain why I -THINK- it would be bad, anyone is free to refute me, but at least I showed devilness some respect before disagreeing with her, I didn't just get pissed off and make a ragepost)

I'd also like to point out just one thing. Since thank's seem to mean something to you guys...I wonder why I have so many thanks given, when I have so little posts compared to you all. I wonder if people, besides you guys obviously, maybe like or agree with what I have to say....who knows though. I clearly don't have any friends on this forum as I just go around attacking everyone, so by your logic I actually earned all mine, rather just having my friends +1 me for nothing....

:@ANGRY

---

(11-28-2012 10:45 PM)dakillakm Resident Wrote:  I just had a revelation and it involved understanding the mathematically complex brain of Tad! Surely this is a breakthrough worth getting back on topic for XD

LOL well you got one over on me then, just when I think I understand Tad, he posts again, and then I'm lost again >.<

---

(11-28-2012 10:33 PM)penfold83 Resident Wrote:  Ekkk i never knew one little idea would get heated up like this, please ethereal it not a my gang says this your gang says that ie bandwagon sigh.

I really hopped this thread would be a idea thing let peeps meet in the middle, rejuvenate a idea that was looked past before.
It would of been nice for to no's and the yes's peeps too meet in the middle and put forward the case......How so wrong i thought (

Hey it's okay Penfold, I'm all for this idea IF it can be done without having negative side effects. I think it would be nice to be able to breed earlier, as I've said before, in the old thread about this, but I think there are just too many issues that would come of it.

[Sara Franco]

I support that everyone has the right to express their opinions but I believe these opinions should be expressed in a civilized manner without attacking others or their opinions.
And I don't mean someone specifically here and if you think I mean you then you believe and know that my words apply on you and that's not my fault.

Actually there are more than one post from different people I found offensive in my opinion. But lets don't forget that "To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction", and I think they just reacted naturally according to this rule without meaning to offend anyone.
And I understand that when you assume that someone is attacking you -even if it is just you feeling that- you attack back naturally, so I'm taking no sides, I'm trying to put myself in everyone's shoes to not be unfair.

Anyway no one can claim to be right all the time, listening to different opinions surely helps everyone to see things from different sides.

So please everyone calm down, listen to others and don't assume they are here just to give you a hard time, I don't think there is anyone here has a reason to dislike the others, and if you think that some have reasons to dislike you then it is probably your fault not theirs?

[dakillakm Resident]

(11-28-2012 07:32 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  Anyway, back to the thread, I agree with you devilness, surprisingly, but the problem is, there ARE people who are just out to make a buck, and IMO, this type of thing would help that along, as seen by some responses in this thread, about how cats are valued, and traits dropping in price.

Making a change just so people can make more money, would be wrong, and that's how I've read it out to be. Saga mentioned that traits become less valuable, and you lose your return on them before you can get them worked in. Not to be contradict myself, but isn't that line of thinking purely from an economic standpoint? You're saying this change should happen so people don't lose their money on an investment? I said this change shouldn't be made because it would change the economy. That isn't a good reason to make a change.

I missed this post entirely the first go round I guess. And yes, combined with this and what Tad said, I can see how it could have several effects on the economy. I would say, however, that looking at it from an economic standpoint is partially important, although not purely. Being a Second Life gypsy, primarily, I can understand the financial need to use kitties to support moar kitties. BUT if the end economic consequences would be negative anyway then I guess my previous argument about being able to more easily build on new traits is moot.

[Ethereal Hurricane]

I'd agree with you sara, but I've been literally called out, by name, at least twice, kinda hard to merely 'feel' like I'm getting attacked. This happened on the other thread too, by the same exact people, you can check it out, I linked it once, and so did Khea. This issue I'm mentioning has happened more than once, so it's not some isolated thing. I used to find joy in people getting mad for no reason, but for some reason, on the KittyCatS forums, it just seems sad...

I agree with you, so much so, that people should listen, then respond, not just respond. This is a forum, and debates happen frequently on forums. Allowing everyone their opinion is mandatory, even if you don't agree.

---

(11-28-2012 11:25 PM)dakillakm Resident Wrote:  I missed this post entirely the first go round I guess. And yes, combined with this and what Tad said, I can see how it could have several effects on the economy. I would say, however, that looking at it from an economic standpoint is partially important, although not purely. Being a Second Life gypsy, primarily, I can understand the financial need to use kitties to support moar kitties. BUT if the end economic consequences would be negative anyway then I guess my previous argument about being able to more easily build on new traits is moot.

Yeah like I said, I'm only speculating that it would be disastrous, I mentioned in the old thread that people should, if they really want this change to happen, fully figure out how this might effect the secondary markets. Will it be bad? I almost 98.7% think it would be, long term. No one really seems to factor in those things.

As it stands, the secondary market is in shambles, but it is getting healthy again, thankfully. The Balinese crisis, as I refer to it, really did a number on things. I've been tossing this idea around, or at least trying to figure out ways to shift the paradigm of what's valued, because a shift needs to happen.

Now a days, trying to progress a line of dominate furs is harder than progressing a recessive line. Eventually that recessive fur is GOING to come out, especially if you know what you're doing. Keeping a dominate fur, such as Chateau Cream & White, for a huge breeding endeavor is hard work. I hear complaints constantly from my friend who has been working on a Cream & White line for as long as they have been around, and its ever so frustrating for her. Half the time she gets a Siamese Chocolate with the desired traits, the other half seems to pull the Cream & White, with undesired traits. At the same time she pumps out like 300 new Balinese Seals a week (obviously being overly dramatic with that number...), like it was nothing.

That's a discussion for another topic though.

*edit* I'd love to stress, once again, PLEASE PEOPLE, PROVE ME WRONG, I want you to! I want this idea to somehow be implemented! AS LONG as it doesn't hurt the community. I will forever be against this, unless there is proof that it can be done without harming the secondary markets.

[Bea Shamrock]

(11-28-2012 10:33 PM)penfold83 Resident Wrote:  Ekkk i never knew one little idea would get heated up like this, please ethereal it not a my gang says this your gang says that ie bandwagon sigh.

I really hopped this thread would be a idea thing let peeps meet in the middle, rejuvenate a idea that was looked past before.
It would of been nice for to no's and the yes's peeps too meet in the middle and put forward the case......How so wrong i thought (

Always happy when someone wants to meet in the middle; sadly life has made me stop expecting or even suggesting it... but here you are!

I don't sell my kitties so I honestly got lost in all the economic/financial implications; my reason for not liking the idea has to do with feelings (silly, maybe). I want my kittens to be kittens and grow up into adults before they start gaining love.

I remember in another thread about this someone had suggested letting them gain love only as from 7 days old, but faster (I think the original idea was 100% at day 7, but perhaps reaching 100% by day 10, starting on day 7 would seem less unrealistic? ). Would that be an acceptable middle? (LOL not that I can actually change something, but finding something most of us are happy with makes it less hard to put forward to those who can change it, in my opinion).

@ Eth, I don't get it. I don't want to get personal here, but please IM me if you ever want to know how I feel about your recent posts. Or not. Your call.