Asking, pleading for kittys to gain love from day one.

[Ethereal Hurricane]

(11-26-2012 08:34 PM)dakillakm Resident Wrote:  Well, let me not insinuate; I was talking about the cranky ratings troll, Ethereal muhahaha But, let me say that it is easy to misread the tone of things, and I think Ethereal was only expressing her frustration at people wanting easy and instant gratification in a general manner. However, when one is sick and sleepy and frustrated with her stubborn kitties it is easy to take a little offense at the suggestion that wanting things to be more convenient is, necessarily, wanting things to be handed to you.

Well first off, thank you for bestowing upon me, the glorious title of 'Cranky Ratings Troll". I have worked night and day, day and night, hitting that 1 star rating on every post I see, tirelessly, endlessly, to attain the prestigious...yeah I'm done with that....

Hopefully you didn't take me seriously when I suggested that I would actually waste my time down-voting threads (that is not to say that I've never 1 starred a thread before, I have). I could care less for the most part what people post, and I post very openly against people, and hold no grudges. I would rather get my post edited by Callie and speak my mind, than downrate a thread for a malicious reason.

Now, that's cleared up, back to business!

I'm against threads like this for one reason; no one has yet offered an idea that would suggest it would be better for the community as a whole to allow this type of change. No matter how you try to string it along, the change is only beneficial to the individual breeder. People try to argue that if you get an early breed, just take it off the end of the cats life, sure, that's all well and good in simple a+b=c rudimentary math (yeah, that's a call back to an old thread....), but when you get down to it, a cat is more valuable at the beginning of its life, not at the end. 100 days later that cat probably has great great grand kids, with better traits. So that alone makes the change not fair and balanced. This type of change has no real benefit other than breeding early.

People who suggest these ideas don't look at the big picture, they look at the simple, instant effect, and disregard anything long term. The last thread like this died with no 'real' solid ideas for why or how this change should be made, and this thread will most likely die the same way. This is why I shoot ideas like this down, because they're not good. I'm sorry if that is offensive to the people suggesting them, but hey, not every idea ever thought of is good. ^__^

With Love,
Your friendly neighborhood Cranky Ratings Troll <3

[Sara Franco]

(11-27-2012 02:42 AM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  (that is not to say that I've never 1 starred a thread before, I have).

Personally I've never seen a whole thread here that deserves a one star, probably few offensive replies -and we can't rate replies as far as I know-, and I believe disagreeing with a thread never gives me the right to down-rate, because I can't claim that what I don't agree with is certainly wrong or bad.

But maybe you have your reasons, and you say you express them and that's good, I wish other raters do the same and express their reasons instead of just rating silently.

Sorry if I went off the main topic.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(11-27-2012 02:42 AM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  Now, that's cleared up, back to business!

I'm against threads like this for one reason; no one has yet offered an idea that would suggest it would be better for the community as a whole to allow this type of change. No matter how you try to string it along, the change is only beneficial to the individual breeder. People try to argue that if you get an early breed, just take it off the end of the cats life, sure, that's all well and good in simple a+b=c rudimentary math (yeah, that's a call back to an old thread....), but when you get down to it, a cat is more valuable at the beginning of its life, not at the end. 100 days later that cat probably has great great grand kids, with better traits. So that alone makes the change not fair and balanced. This type of change has no real benefit other than breeding early.

People who suggest these ideas don't look at the big picture, they look at the simple, instant effect, and disregard anything long term. The last thread like this died with no 'real' solid ideas for why or how this change should be made, and this thread will most likely die the same way. This is why I shoot ideas like this down, because they're not good. I'm sorry if that is offensive to the people suggesting them, but hey, not every idea ever thought of is good. ^__^

With Love,
Your friendly neighborhood Cranky Ratings Troll <3

I agree with this very much because the bigger picture in the long run is very important for the future of breeding KittyCatS.
I think they gave their community very much by revealing gender before birth already.
We can sibling breed and back breed as far as I know KC's are the only breedable that does allow that and wow what a relief that is!
It is kind of sad to see the wishlist seems to be unlimited.
And what is important indeed is who breeds a cat the full 120 days?
We most likely finished our plans with that cat way before that.
The first breeds of the cat are the most important ones.
So yes it looks so simple: breeding at 7 days old and retire at 110 but I strongly believe there is much more to that.
And I don't write this because I like KC biz.
They ruined my pleasure in collecting KittyCatS in many ways, because they simply refused to correct an obvious mistake on a very expensive and one of a kind collectable but this is way off topic and a too long story #*%+@!
I really feel not any reason to be loyal to their business and decision taking but if something obviously makes no sense such as breeding at 7 days I will say that regardless.
And other than that I feel everyone should be free to voice their opinion without being moderated or "stalked" with IM's by the owners about a post and requests to remove/ edit them.
It seems I'm not the only one who receives those IM's (no I don't give you logs and names).
*Sighs* KC you are a mature company and earn mature money let us speak up please we are your good paying customers!
Freedom of opinion, speech and debat is very important as long as we keep it within TOS and decent ofcourse.

[Khea Karas]

(11-25-2012 09:45 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  The point of the extra seven days is so that you CAN'T just make it simple and easy to breed back to the parent. Everyone trying to make a case for the change to be made is only suggesting it because it would make things easier. It's already easy, why does it need to be easier?

Heck, in the current state of KittyCatS, you don't even have to try anymore to discover hidden traits, because the most recessive furs/eyes/ears/whiskers/etc can be found on cats probably just sitting at the love shack because their owner has 100 of the same thing. Making things easier is unnecessary.

I'm tired of people asking for changes just so things are easier, and breeding takes less time. This isn't the land of everyone deserves to have everything instantly. Earn your cats. Everyone else plays the waiting game, so can you.

And just FYI, not everyone agrees every time saga says something
http://www.kittycats.biz/forum/showthrea...363&page=1


* obligatory statement to follow*

Let the kittens grow and mature, you wouldn't want your real kid stepping foot out of the womb, already ready for sex would you?

We are all here to discuss a topic, and if you cant do that in a constructive manner then perhaps you should keep your opinions to yourself. It is not necessary to insinuate others are lesser breeders than yourself, simply because they hold different opinions to your own. I can assure you i have been around kittycats long enough and this is not an excuse for an easy breed. I am also well aware of how to pull traits and breed like most of us discussing this topic do.

Looking at the "bigger picture", the reason I believe this would be beneficial to kittycats community is mainly to help lure in new breeders. The current 14 day wait period is too long in terms of SL time. I have heard of new potential breeders even giving up before they have had their first kitten, simply because its too long. Add to the fact that unless they know to purchase milk, vitamins, learning to pair, and ensure all stats are ok for a cat to breed is simply too much and too long.

I do also believe yes, it would streamline breeding for the more established breeders, making it less of a chore to unpack, and give more of an incentive to keep breeding, opening boxes, and putting out live cats, instead the current state of mass "quitting" of kittycats, and the overrun of dead markets full of nothing but boxes and low priced kitties.

My suggestion was not to increase the total output of boxes a cat would have in a breeding lifetime. It was simply to support the idea that a cat could have a kitten at 7 days. As soon as it is fully mature, with a cut back of its total breeding lifetime from 120 days to 113 days. Therefore there would NOT be an increase of kitten/cats flooding the market, it would stay as it is in terms of quantity.

I think this would be a positive change to kittycats to help new growth and freshen up of the game and the community overall.

[dakillakm Resident]

(11-27-2012 02:42 AM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  I'm against threads like this for one reason; no one has yet offered an idea that would suggest it would be better for the community as a whole to allow this type of change. No matter how you try to string it along, the change is only beneficial to the individual breeder. People try to argue that if you get an early breed, just take it off the end of the cats life, sure, that's all well and good in simple a+b=c rudimentary math (yeah, that's a call back to an old thread....), but when you get down to it, a cat is more valuable at the beginning of its life, not at the end. 100 days later that cat probably has great great grand kids, with better traits. So that alone makes the change not fair and balanced. This type of change has no real benefit other than breeding early.

People who suggest these ideas don't look at the big picture, they look at the simple, instant effect, and disregard anything long term. The last thread like this died with no 'real' solid ideas for why or how this change should be made, and this thread will most likely die the same way. This is why I shoot ideas like this down, because they're not good. I'm sorry if that is offensive to the people suggesting them, but hey, not every idea ever thought of is good. ^__^

I can definitely understand your point about cats being more valuable at their beginning. I suppose I can understand how this correlates to to the long term, buuuut I admit I am sometimes not good at looking at the very long term.

And no, I don't actually think you are the ratings troll. I was just trying to make light of my own cranky post.

[Saga Felix]

-I will repeat one of the points I made in the original thread about this ages ago - AND at the same time, I will claim that this would be hugely beneficial to the market, and the community as a whole:

"Another point in this is this: With new traits coming out ever so often, long-term breeding projects, even if you manage the the BEST damn breeding anyone could possibly do, simply don't pay off.
LUCK is what runs it - are you the one to get that starter / special edition that hides the fancy new stuff? THEN you are golden. -Whereas you can take these new traits and start breeding them together + with nice furs, other traits, combining them etc., but with the 14 days it takes for each generation to even get their FIRST kitten, there is NO way we can keep up with the release of new traits.

I wish good breeding was the way to go... I wish I could say that my best bred cat ever was worth as much as that starter that earned me 50k in 3 weeks because it happened to hide a fur that was sought after at the time. I wish it was about figuring out stuff + some luck... and not PURE luck."

(EDIT to add the link to the above post: http://www.kittycats.biz/forum/showthread.php?tid=2363 )

-This also results in nice traits and furs being "forgotten" rather quickly. The stuff that is new right now, will be out of fashion and SO last year as soon as the Xmas-kitties hit the market in just a month - and since we haven't really had the chance to really work with it, as most of the time is spent on the kittens growing up, most people will abandon what they're doing and start new projects with the new and fancy furs & traits by then. -And so the cycle continues.

Oh, and to the few that insinuates that those who suggests things will never be happy anyway, let me say: When I started in KittyCatS, there were 3 major things I wished would change: Unpack-time, gender on boxes, and the kittens' time to grow up. 3 things. 2 of them have already happened, and I think we can all agree that those are good things, and that KittyCatS fixed these things brilliantly.
-I am sure that this last thing would also be a good thing, but I do not think it will happen. Why? Well, simply because too many people disagree, and I don't think KittyCatS would force a change that could split the community.
-But even if I think it's unlikely to happen, I will stand by the last of "my 3 wishes" any time :-)

-Saga

[WaxDragon Resident]

(11-25-2012 09:45 PM)Ethereal Hurricane Wrote:  Heck, in the current state of KittyCatS, you don't even have to try anymore to discover hidden traits, because the most recessive furs/eyes/ears/whiskers/etc can be found on cats probably just sitting at the love shack because their owner has 100 of the same thing. Making things easier is unnecessary.

Look at the the total members in this forum, it's over 7700, how many people got new traits discovered in each new collection and how many they have to upack all at once to have that "luck" to discover a new trait. I think one of the fun parts of buying new collection is to discover a new trait on your own. Or, were you meant the luck (possibilty) to discover a new trait is 1 in 10 simply that easy now? Also, I don't find the "most" recessive kitties like Jade eyes, Odyssey Bellini or Cream Lynx, Ebony Silver or any new discovered traits at the love shack. Without paying a fortune to get the new traits at first hand as Saga mentioned above, you don't have the opportunity to breed out the kitty that can "sell" in current state.

I can see where some people coming from to want a change based on the current markets situation and why some don't. Simply most of the reasons have stated by Saga on the above.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

I just wonder who is to decide what is a constructive opinion or not?
I believe when posts are decent, meaning within TOS, there is nothing wrong with one giving an opinion in their own prefered way.
We shouldn't be to rigid about that I think.
Therefore since I see Ethereal has an opinion some people don't like it is not so much not constructive but something some people rather not hear that is something else.
To ask her to not voice her opinion at all for that reason is a bridge too far for me.
She has her own way of saying things (she already said she has a pretty straight forward way of saying things) our community knows a high variety of people and communication styles and I think since we only have the written word and not the tone of voice we need to try to give eachother at least the benefit of the doubt.
Sometimes things come off more harsh or rude but this likely has to do with the way people are used to talk, cultural difference, character and what not.
It is not perse so people who place a lot of smiley's, receive a lot of kudo's from their crowd and wrap their opinion in a sweet sounding way it is always a nicer/ better or a more constructive post it can be well hidden unkindness.
I don't believe in censure of any kind.
If something does not sound nice to you please ignore it but don't tell someone to not say anything at all just because they have a different way of speaking than you have.

[Khea Karas]

(11-27-2012 01:10 PM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  I just wonder who is to decide what is a constructive opinion or not?
I believe when posts are decent, meaning within TOS, there is nothing wrong with one giving an opinion in their own prefered way.
We shouldn't be to rigid about that I think.
Therefore since I see Ethereal has an opinion some people don't like it is not so much not constructive but something some people rather not hear that is something else.
To ask her to not voice her opinion at all for that reason is a bridge too far for me.
She has her own way of saying things (she already said she has a pretty straight forward way of saying things) our community knows a high variety of people and communication styles and I think since we only have the written word and not the tone of voice we need to try to give eachother at least the benefit of the doubt.
Sometimes things come off more harsh or rude but this likely has to do with the way people are used to talk, cultural difference, character and what not.
It is not perse so people who place a lot of smiley's, receive a lot of kudo's from their crowd and wrap their opinion in a sweet sounding way it is always a nicer/ better or a more constructive post it can be well hidden unkindness.
I don't believe in censure of any kind.
If something does not sound nice to you please ignore it but don't tell someone to not say anything at all just because they have a different way of speaking than you have.

Regardless of culture or way of speaking, people should respect each other. Everyone has a right to an opinion, and its common curtsey and manners to speak in a civilized way towards each other. That was my point towards Ethereal, as she has a tendency to always snap and bite her way around this forum more than often. And when she directly quotes me and does so in this tone I have a right to defend myself and ask her not to do it. You dont need to defend her, its not your problem, so I respectfully ask you to not get involved pleased.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

I can say what I want, when I want and how I want to do that and I don't need your permission, thank you!
You can tell other people what to do or not but not me I take no directions and speak as I wish.
And more importantly it was not even about you but about freedom of expression in general so I think you might think this topic is all about you but it was not.

EDIT To be VERY clear I didn't defend Ethereal but freedom of expression in general because we face this more often in the community.
Some people put things different than others and at first glance this might not sound nice or becoming while it might be meant very well.
Not always ofcourse.

Defending someone just like that I don't do and I somehow feel Ethereal doesn't need that at all, that was just a wild guess from my part
Defending a variety of ways to express and the freedom in this, in all the variety of cultures within KittyCatS and how they express themselfes, I'm always very willing to do.
And I absolutely do not feel the slightest urge to stop doing so and nobody can stop me from doing that either!