regards to cat flipping..

[kittyclawz Resident]

I myself, like to sell low priced kitties to help breeders/newbreeders grab a bargain so whenever i sell them it makes me happy, plus its helpful towards kibble/milk but when i see the buyer literally after 5 minutes mark it up for extra $ to resell it again (boxed) is very hurtful. I understand when you sell things the new owner has everyright to do what they want with it, with collectables people do this for investments but when its a line of kitties you've bred or cats marked down for 150L$ then as you pull up torgon see them marked to sell for 500L$ it makes you question why should i be selling so low when i get taken for granted like this.. I understand its hard to get a income on sl, kittycats cost lindens to feed i get that. But if you was in my shoes and someone brought your cat for a low price then instantly setup for sale for extra $ it shows they weren't wanting to breed or even use the kitty just to flip for extra income.. I know alot of people will have other opinons but this has happened multiple times, and many of my friends say if they see their own cats being "flipped" they just buy them back. Just had to get that off my chest. Please be nice with the replies as i am debating whehter to start slowly marking my cats up to the typical price of what a cat costs to feed/care for as alot of hardwork goes into breeding...

[Polenth Yue]

When I started out, I tried pricing cats based on average market prices. They didn't sell. I only hit a point where they sold at around L$100 for most normal cats with a few maybe going for up to L$200. Chances are the person buying your cats thought those higher prices were realistic, but will find they don't sell and will have to drop the price right down.

KittyCats really isn't a way to make money. Anyone looking to get rich quick is not going to last once they realise they won't get much more than kibble costs.

[Serena Stroikavskoi]

I think those that do this for the joy of KC has been through this at one point or another. Some even started making a rule in auctions you have to 'breed' the kitty indicating you also had to own the parents to place on a panel. A few has even expressed they won't buy a kitty unless they see that the kitty being sold has parents owned by the same avatar or at least a known partner. This has been going on for a long time and I still don't think they make anything. But you have enough around that make up for the bad people.

Might even be something to consider is based on the market do a 30% markdown and not go cheap. Even have a 'pool' of super discounted kitties really discounted but birth them, eating at the regular rate instead of breeding.

[Violet Blossom]

This one specific person does this to me with my megas or collectibles. I was really upset when I saw a collectible mega that she bought from me and she marked it about 10x higher than it should go for. I think it's extremely greedy and i'm not the only one she has done this to, all her megas and collectible megas were bred by someone else. (some collectibles you can breed, get a special baby or special birth, those are what i'm referring to, although i did find some for sale from her that i pulled from the vendor, says it was me in pedigree of them)she keeps doing it, I said something to her and blocked her, and she keeps doing it to this day. I can't ban her as its not my land. I also price kitties lower to help people out because I know what it's like to want to have nice kittycats and can't always afford them.
People just flip for greed, years ago in kittycats it was very very frowned upon and bad kittycat etiquette when doing this, i know we can't completely control this, but it's extremely disrespectful to the breeder and to the kittycats community when someone flips.

(This is my new avatar, ive been breeding since 2013 on my old avi)

[Foxchase Pick]

I've only been breeding and collecting for about 6 months, and those cheap kitties in the early days were SO helpful to me. And the live kitties with a handful of breeding cycles left on 'em.
I'm beginning to understand why a few breeders birth so many of their kitties and offer them live for reasonable prices. It keeps the kitty flippers from hoarding them. I'm also beginning to understand the sellers who don't list their bargain kitties on Torgon's. Making the flippers work for it.
My best (unsolicited) advice to to price them for what makes YOU comfortable and find a way to let them go in your heart. (sigh)
THanks for bringing the subject up, it needs to be brought out in the open.

[Ivy Norsk]

The thing is, just because a person flips a cat and tries to price it high, that doesn't mean it will sell at that price.
As for collectibles, the prices on collectibles would and should tend naturally to go up as they do become more rare over time.

[kittyclawz Resident]

Ever since making this post i wont sell my kitties any lower than 300L as typically it costs 170L = kibble + 140L = milk for an entire week feed = 310L$ overall. So my lowest would be set for 300L. I understand collectables, i'm not mad over those as they do go up in price as they get older and they increase in value and its good to stock up on them to sell i think if i sold them a lower price and someone went to sell them for more than that's on me really.. as it doesn't show any previous breeding their starter kitties unless it was a special but still i made that choice to sell for low. So with that being said, i have noticed the person who brought alot of my cats at low prices have realised they aren't selling at their 500L asking price they've now set for 250L so they understand how trying to increase sales is best to lower them. But eitherway they flipped my cats.. with my breeding involved. So lesson learnt no low priced kitties from me.. Only will sell them for what i've paid to feed them i guess or what i feel they value for.

[Kayla Woodrunner]

I've been breeding cats a long time. I'm a bargain hunter, always have been as I typically get a cheap love cat if my cattery has too many boys or too many girls to even things out a bit while I wait for a few of the too many to get old enough to no longer breed.

I don't flip but I've had people be unhappy at me because I'm good at digging out traits and sometimes find a hidden recessive that the previous owner didn't bother to dig out in a lovecat. It's not just who owned the cat first. Breeding skill or marketing skill also counts.

I am ok with people trying to flip. I think, as you found, that if you watch the trajectory if flippers buy a lot of cats cheap and put them up high, most of the cats will not sell so flippers will lower the price. And then probably lower prices again later. And imho the majority will find that they lost money on trying to flip.

Many people get excited about KC when they hear a new super-recessive sells for oodles of lindens. And often they don't understand how tiered the market is as traits go in and out of fashion, nor how quickly a new trait can fall in price. Or they think 100L per nongenesis traits is the going price when it still really depends on the cat and the season and they become unhappy they can't get 900L for a 9-trait cat or even 500L. They will learn sales are seasonal and there are times when the doldrums hit and nothing sells. So often flippers will get burnt and will stop flipping after a season or two unless they've become addicted to breeding.

Flippers don't generally last long unless they are successful at marketing. And to be fair, if flippers put in the time to understand the market and learn how to market -- that's a skill set too that equals breeding in time and effort to gain. I never mastered the marketing/selling skillset so I don't sell often.

While most flippers fail, if a flipper is successful, more power to them -- they are likely to be bringing in new people into kittycats thru their marketing (us oldies are unlikely to buy from a flipper) and the more new people, the better because Kittycats will last longer if we keep getting new blood.

FYI, as an oldie I have more than 10,000 boxes. You have to do what you feel comfortable doing but also recognize whatever your choice, anyone is free to do whatever once they get the box. Ages ago, I also got burnt when I gave a special birth kitty to someone I thought was new who was bemoaning not having a collection cat. She acted so happy when I gave it to her. Wtihin a day, it was birthed to a different owner. So my personal lesson, don't give away a cat except to close friends but give away breeding info instead -- knowledge will last longer than a giveaway. Also I don't sell unless it's at a price that equals my effort -- which is why I have 10,000 boxes, lol. My effort is worth more than 100L. (I just realized 10,000 x 100L is 1,000,000L. omg! That's a lot of kibble)

[Serena Stroikavskoi]

Kayla you couldn't have said it better!~ This like anything and even any marketed item should be for the love of doing it and enjoyment it bring to you.

OMG and I thought I was the only one with that many kitties, *whispers* did you count the ones in inventory tooo

[Ellen Ireland]

I can SO relate to this! Well said!

(I just checked and I'm at 15,668 boxes.)

(12-31-2023 08:48 AM)Kayla Woodrunner Wrote:  I've been breeding cats a long time. I'm a bargain hunter, always have been as I typically get a cheap love cat if my cattery has too many boys or too many girls to even things out a bit while I wait for a few of the too many to get old enough to no longer breed.

I don't flip but I've had people be unhappy at me because I'm good at digging out traits and sometimes find a hidden recessive that the previous owner didn't bother to dig out in a lovecat. It's not just who owned the cat first. Breeding skill or marketing skill also counts.

I am ok with people trying to flip. I think, as you found, that if you watch the trajectory if flippers buy a lot of cats cheap and put them up high, most of the cats will not sell so flippers will lower the price. And then probably lower prices again later. And imho the majority will find that they lost money on trying to flip.

Many people get excited about KC when they hear a new super-recessive sells for oodles of lindens. And often they don't understand how tiered the market is as traits go in and out of fashion, nor how quickly a new trait can fall in price. Or they think 100L per nongenesis traits is the going price when it still really depends on the cat and the season and they become unhappy they can't get 900L for a 9-trait cat or even 500L. They will learn sales are seasonal and there are times when the doldrums hit and nothing sells. So often flippers will get burnt and will stop flipping after a season or two unless they've become addicted to breeding.

Flippers don't generally last long unless they are successful at marketing. And to be fair, if flippers put in the time to understand the market and learn how to market -- that's a skill set too that equals breeding in time and effort to gain. I never mastered the marketing/selling skillset so I don't sell often.

While most flippers fail, if a flipper is successful, more power to them -- they are likely to be bringing in new people into kittycats thru their marketing (us oldies are unlikely to buy from a flipper) and the more new people, the better because Kittycats will last longer if we keep getting new blood.

FYI, as an oldie I have more than 10,000 boxes. You have to do what you feel comfortable doing but also recognize whatever your choice, anyone is free to do whatever once they get the box. Ages ago, I also got burnt when I gave a special birth kitty to someone I thought was new who was bemoaning not having a collection cat. She acted so happy when I gave it to her. Wtihin a day, it was birthed to a different owner. So my personal lesson, don't give away a cat except to close friends but give away breeding info instead -- knowledge will last longer than a giveaway. Also I don't sell unless it's at a price that equals my effort -- which is why I have 10,000 boxes, lol. My effort is worth more than 100L. (I just realized 10,000 x 100L is 1,000,000L. omg! That's a lot of kibble)