Fun with Breeding "Advice", "Tips", Tricks and Superstitions :)

[Tad Carlucci]

Not to get technical on you but

"randomness has a pattern" means it's not random.

"could be forced by coders that old kitties pass more hidden, but I can't be sure of course" .. no you CAN be sure it's not true. This would be called "cheating" or "fraud": KittyCatS Resident, their coder is neither: and those of us who can do the math instead of waving VooDoo dolls at our screens would catch him at it if he tried.

I can see the idea of "tip and tricks" is not to aid new people, it's to sew false and misleading information.

I hope that anyone looking for actual tips bears in mind that such comments are based upon wild flights of fancy and should not be taken seriously.

[Devilness Chant]

(09-24-2012 05:47 AM)LadyKallista Resident Wrote:  how can you tell the sex of your kittys? new to ownership not really looking to breed but if it happens yay!! i wore my lucky pants that day!

Welcome and I hope you wash those lucky pants. lol I remember when I was just going to have 6 kitties. I now average 70.

As for randomness, I think unless you see the actuall codes, and know what you're looking at...it's definitely random.

I've had kitties give almost the same boxes every week till I retire them and others that every week is different.

That's what's fun about breeding. You can never be sure what you're going to get. So it's just like Christmas. All you can do is hedge your chances with the dom repressiveness of the traits.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(09-24-2012 06:42 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  ... I hope that anyone looking for actual tips bears in mind that such comments are based upon wild flights of fancy and should not be taken seriously.

Don't worry Tad we have brains as well

[Sara Franco]

(09-24-2012 06:42 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  Not to get technical on you but

"randomness has a pattern" means it's not random.

"could be forced by coders that old kitties pass more hidden, but I can't be sure of course" .. no you CAN be sure it's not true. This would be called "cheating" or "fraud": KittyCatS Resident, their coder is neither: and those of us who can do the math instead of waving VooDoo dolls at our screens would catch him at it if he tried.

I can see the idea of "tip and tricks" is not to aid new people, it's to sew false and misleading information.

I hope that anyone looking for actual tips bears in mind that such comments are based upon wild flights of fancy and should not be taken seriously.

hmm I'm not spreading any false or misleading information, and I didn't claim anything, I'm just wondering, and btw I'm a coder myself and an Engineer actually and can do math and definitely not waving VooDoo dolls and I have to say I didn't like how you responded.
Also it is not that I don't understand the technical part, just it is not the goal of this thread and I was talking off-technical and you don't have to take what I say seriously anyway.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(09-24-2012 07:26 AM)Sara Franco Wrote:  ... I have to say I didn't like how you responded. ...

I don't like it either I think that post is unpolite, haughty and intolerant.

[Sara Franco]

(09-24-2012 07:30 AM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:  

(09-24-2012 07:26 AM)Sara Franco Wrote:  ... I have to say I didn't like how you responded. ...

I don't like it either.

Thank you Kay

[Liriel Garnet]

(09-23-2012 08:10 PM)Sara Franco Wrote:  Thanks for opening this topic

Will participate with some thoughts and questions...

I know that which trait the kitty passes is random but even randomness has a pattern or at least some limitations the coders force or the rand function does itself, but lets not get so technical again, and better we talk about the results we get not the reasons.

Like some may noticed that the Kitties sometimes pass the hidden traits it held undiscovered for too long at the last days before retiring, that could be forced by coders that old kitties pass more hidden, but I can't be sure of course.

Also passing the same trait many times in a row, the cat will never pass the same trait forever and shouldn't.
I've an Abyssinian - Cinnamon hiding Ocicat -Tawny, I mate her with her Chateau Cat - Silver & White No. 1 brother who is hiding the same to get some traits with the Ocicat -Tawny, they gave Abyssinian Abyssinian - Cinnamon 5 times in a row!! before they give me an Ocicat -Tawny (and it didn't have the traits I wanted ). So How many times maximum in a row you get the same trait passed (weather visible or not)? I didn't keep record but I got 5 in a row recently as I just mentioned.

And what are your observations about randomness patterns in general? Knowing the randomness behavior may help us choosing the right time for breeding with a certain mate so I'm really curious to hear your observations.

First, let me state that I don't believe that there is any programming that affects the odds of a hidden trait showing up late, or a particular trait or fur passing more easily or with more difficulty. That would be a bad thing.

But yes, i have long runs of the same sex from a pair, or traits that do or don't pass. This is entirely normal and expected in a truly random situation. You're far more likely to get three girls, then a boy, then another girl, then two more boys, then whatever... than boy-girl-boy-girl. I currently have a starter that's thrown only their gen eye color for five boxes. I have another starter that keeps tossing her pink eyes (and i'd truly prefer she toss her genesis). And unfortunately both appear to be 6T starters (missing pupil size, eye shape *and* shade), as they've tossed neither in 5 boxes as well.

Frustrating? Yes, in some ways. I had a pair of 7T cats that tossed me four 9T boxes out of 10 together. I have another pair of 8T cats (both 9T capable) who have *yet* to toss me a 9T offspring in 8 boxes, mainly because the girl in 7 of the 8 boxes has tossed her shown big pupil. I have a whole breeding line that toss me mainly boys, another that tosses me mainly girls. I have a project with a friend that's *always* been boy-heavy, but the last two weeks, nearly every pair has given us girls. It's all luck and odds, sometimes they're in your favor, other times not.

[Sara Franco]

(09-24-2012 09:34 AM)Liriel Garnet Wrote:  First, let me state that I don't believe that there is any programming that affects the odds of a hidden trait showing up late, or a particular trait or fur passing more easily or with more difficulty. That would be a bad thing.

But yes, i have long runs of the same sex from a pair, or traits that do or don't pass. This is entirely normal and expected in a truly random situation. You're far more likely to get three girls, then a boy, then another girl, then two more boys, then whatever... than boy-girl-boy-girl. I currently have a starter that's thrown only their gen eye color for five boxes. I have another starter that keeps tossing her pink eyes (and i'd truly prefer she toss her genesis). And unfortunately both appear to be 6T starters (missing pupil size, eye shape *and* shade), as they've tossed neither in 5 boxes as well.

Frustrating? Yes, in some ways. I had a pair of 7T cats that tossed me four 9T boxes out of 10 together. I have another pair of 8T cats (both 9T capable) who have *yet* to toss me a 9T offspring in 8 boxes, mainly because the girl in 7 of the 8 boxes has tossed her shown big pupil. I have a whole breeding line that toss me mainly boys, another that tosses me mainly girls. I have a project with a friend that's *always* been boy-heavy, but the last two weeks, nearly every pair has given us girls. It's all luck and odds, sometimes they're in your favor, other times not.

Thanks Liriel for your reply

The part I mentioned about almost retired kitties breeding was just wondering but I don't find it bad if they do it, as long as it is the same for all breeders why would it be bad?

Anyway the second part was mainly my interest, the repetition of the same result, it is amazing how your pairs are different Liriel and yes it is luck and I had kitties that tend to pass the hidden fur or eyes more than the visible (and of course they like to do that when I want the visible trait ) and others do completely the opposite but I like to expect that when I get the same trait or a gender for many times in a row -say 3 times- that I'm getting the other the next time, that proves to be wrong many times of course but it is like Devil's "washed" lucky pants just a try to predict the result, never a try to set a rule.

[Tad Carlucci]

Why is it, when you lose your keys, they're always in the last place you looked?

It's not that the odds, or whatever, dictated that. It's simply that once you found them, you stopped looking.

Of course that long-sought hidden is one of the last boxes produced. But this has nothing to do with the odds, or any other game mechanics: it's all you. Once you found it, you stopped looking for it. Your goal was no longer to find it, but to reproduce it, or use that new-found recessive to try to tease out other recessives, or whatever. Why keep looking once you've found it?

It's human nature to want to see patterns where none exist. "All I get is boys!" is patently false. But you feel it's true because you're ignoring the girls you've been getting all along. You could design your breeding program so you don't depend upon getting girls. Sure, you wanted the girl because she would have made life a lot easier. But the problem isn't that you didn't get the girl you wanted: it's that you didn't leave yourself a alternate plan.

It's also human nature to remember the bad a lot longer than one remembers the good. If you look back over all your breeding projects, you'll probably find that you got girls or boys, when you need them, a bit more often than when you didn't get them. But you're ignoring those successes and remembering the failures.

[GhostCollective Resident]

(09-24-2012 06:42 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  I can see the idea of "tip and tricks" is not to aid new people, it's to sew false and misleading information.

I hope that anyone looking for actual tips bears in mind that such comments are based upon wild flights of fancy and should not be taken seriously.

I too believe you were out of line in this post. we're just trying to have fun and so far i have seen nothing that is mis-leading in any way. To those who come across this thread I want to assure you that we are not trying to do anything underhanded or misleading. We all are still learning as the KittyCats team comes up with new stuff for us to discover.