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MsMagick Resident · (This post was last modified: 12-10-2018 09:32 AM by MsMagick Resident.)

Thanks! I bought a Kiwi that obviously hides Burmilla-Lilac (or better), and have had it paired with a Toyger-Caramel that should be solid. I've only gotten Toyger-Caramel (3 times) and while I know that it could just have given it's hidden every time, I'm starting to wonder if it's really dominant to the Caramel, or if those Caramels had something hiding underneath. I know Thomas had one where he was getting Caramels too and the Purple Kiwi looked lost. I would love to know more about the cats that he, Kathy and anyone else discovered theirs with.

Arwen Swordthain · (This post was last modified: 12-11-2018 02:45 AM by Arwen Swordthain.)

(12-10-2018 09:29 AM)MsMagick Resident Wrote: Thanks! I bought a Kiwi that obviously hides Burmilla-Lilac (or better), and have had it paired with a Toyger-Caramel that should be solid. I've only gotten Toyger-Caramel (3 times) and while I know that it could just have given it's hidden every time, I'm starting to wonder if it's really dominant to the Caramel, or if those Caramels had something hiding underneath. I know Thomas had one where he was getting Caramels too and the Purple Kiwi looked lost. I would love to know more about the cats that he, Kathy and anyone else discovered theirs with.

At this point all we know is the cat that pulled it showed Toyger - Caramel, no proof of purity has been offered so thats why it hasn't been added to the charts. Your cat could be throwing hidden everytime, cats are frustrating like that, but equally the Caramel Thomas pulled it with could have thrown a hidden we can't see. This is why we require proof of hiddens before updating the charts.
Are you checking the hids of any of your Caramels to see if they hide the Kiwi or the Lilac?
I have a sibling pair of AM Gingers that threw their hidden Burmilla - Lilac 3 times in a row, have had 4 in total from them, you can bet if I was trying to pull that fur out from both cats I'd be lucky to get 2 in the entire breeding cycle, of course all 4 are boys so even if that was my aim they would be frustrating me Big Grin

, one cat throwing hid 3 times in a row is bad enough but both cats? On the upside I have some pure Lilacs.

MsMagick Resident · (This post was last modified: 12-11-2018 06:41 AM by MsMagick Resident.)

Sounds like when I was trying to breed my first Toyger-Coals, and they giving me their hidden Burmilla-Lilac furs! Big Grin

*nods* I've been checking the charts and saw that it hasn't been placed - and there haven't been any updates here - which is part of why I asked regarding the cats that Thomas and Kathy used. Being disabled, I don't usually have the kibble budget to experiment, but since KittyCats is going to be feeding some of my babies for a several weeks (in my display at the Winter SIM), maybe I'll try putting one of the Kiwi OS with a Toyger-Snow and see what pops out from under the Caramel.

Thanks, Arwen!

(12-11-2018 02:40 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote: At this point all we know is the cat that pulled it showed Toyger - Caramel, no proof of purity has been offered so thats why it hasn't been added to the charts. Your cat could be throwing hidden everytime, cats are frustrating like that, but equally the Caramel Thomas pulled it with could have thrown a hidden we can't see. This is why we require proof of hiddens before updating the charts.
Are you checking the hids of any of your Caramels to see if they hide the Kiwi or the Lilac?
I have a sibling pair of AM Gingers that threw their hidden Burmilla - Lilac 3 times in a row, have had 4 in total from them, you can bet if I was trying to pull that fur out from both cats I'd be lucky to get 2 in the entire breeding cycle, of course all 4 are boys so even if that was my aim they would be frustrating me , one cat throwing hid 3 times in a row is bad enough but both cats? On the upside I have some pure Lilacs.

MsMagick Resident · 12-15-2018, 12:49 PM

I switched mine from Caramel boys to a Toyger-Snow, and of course she gave her hidden! LOL

Arwen Swordthain · 12-15-2018, 01:23 PM

(12-15-2018 12:49 PM)MsMagick Resident Wrote: I switched mine from Caramel boys to a Toyger-Snow, and of course she gave her hidden! LOL

Typical, good luck on checking one of the Caramels.

ReecePie Resident · 12-21-2018, 10:50 PM

Yes I am having the same trouble with my Purple Kiwi also bought from Kitty. Mine are pulling toyger Caramel and Now burmillia lilac Shaded. I can't seem to find it either.

ReecePie Resident · (This post was last modified: 12-24-2018 10:23 PM by ReecePie Resident.)

Not sure if this helps or not but I just had a Kiwi tonight. here is the Pedigree, not sure how to do the pic's here so sorry. [https://kittycats.ws/p.php?5d7007f8-d344423-11518/]

sorry I tried to do the picture it did not work { https://kittycats.ws/p.php?5d7007f8-d344423-11518/} lol trying one more time

https://kittycats.ws/p.php?5d7007f8-d344423-11518

Arwen Swordthain · 12-25-2018, 04:28 AM

(12-24-2018 10:21 PM)ReecePie Resident Wrote: Not sure if this helps or not but I just had a Kiwi tonight. here is the Pedigree, not sure how to do the pic's here so sorry. [https://kittycats.ws/p.php?5d7007f8-d344423-11518/]
sorry I tried to do the picture it did not work { https://kittycats.ws/p.php?5d7007f8-d344423-11518/} lol trying one more time
https://kittycats.ws/p.php?5d7007f8-d344423-11518

Reece, thats a pedigree link to the website and expires 30 minutes after its generated so we are unable to view the pedigree at all. You need to take a screenshot and post that as a link, am happy to add it inline for you if you do Smile

Or you can use the formula below and where I have written PASTE LINK YOUR HERE, paste your link then copy and paste the whole thing and it should work Smile

[img]PASTEYOURLINKHERE.png[/img]

make sure to only replace the caps and make sure there are no spaces, then it should work.

Cloe Osterham · (This post was last modified: 01-05-2019 01:19 AM by Cloe Osterham.)

From my testing so far Purple kiwi is recessive to Aby Salt & Pepper & Dom to Bengal Blue

[Image: 5d39607235bc563a4682e67288a095cc.png]

[Image: 02343103fb9e9501fc381ee0f6316d38.png]

To further elaborate on my post the toyger tan was an accidental breed but it did give some good insight because I have proven kiwi recessive to aby salt and pepper. Since the starters fur was pulled and the kiwi cannot possibly be hiding moms shown fur of toyger tan it must be hiding moms hidden fur of either the burmilla choc silver shaded or bengal blue from way back in the line.

Arwen Swordthain · (This post was last modified: 01-05-2019 10:55 AM by Arwen Swordthain.)

Thank you Cloe thats great work on the Abyssininan - Salt & Pepper proof, however, unless you can show purity of the Bengal - Blue or show it pulled back out by a more recessive fur, I can't actually update as dominant to it. We do need absolute proof in order to update the charts.
The Aby S&P is a good absolute proof.
Regarding the second profiler pedigree, the likely hid there is actually the Bengal Blue that would have been under the Salt & Pepper, not the burmilla Choc in the Tan line as Tan was the showing fur so the hidden couldn't have passed, the Toyger Tan mother hides either Aby S&P or Bengal Blue or better, since you proved its recessive to the Aby S&P it has to be the Bengal Blue or better from that side of the line.
These pedigrees are a very good indication that it will be dominant to Bengal - Blue, unfortunately they just need a bit more to be absolute proofs. Discovering the hidden fur of either of the Purple Kiwis shown here would be a huge help.

Came back and had another look at your profiler pedigree, the part that matters is this bit
[Image: 7ea0cd3bc720a94f1686eacc1e5e25bb.png]

[Image: 7ea0cd3bc720a94f1686eacc1e5e25bb.png]

If you can show a pedigree proving that either the Aby Salt & Pepper or its Dad hides Bengal - Blue that will be enough, because you have proved the Purple Kiwi can't hide Toyger - Tan or Aby S&P