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Minx Diabolito · 01-20-2018, 11:22 AM

You're welcome! As for some of the slanging matches that caused threads to be closed, I will fully take responsibility for being a part sometimes (as you can see in those threads) but I just could not stand the threat to everyone he was. I am a pretty laid back person but if someone comes for what I see to be my family, as I see this community, it brings out a whole different protective side of me. Without him here and his inflammatory comments, it is very easy to remain calm though and this whole thread is really wonderful for us all to just be honest like we are being ^.^

I can say for his behavior from what I have seen that he does not learn at all. He will say things and lie to people or even do what is a kind of performance, just to manipulate, and pretend to be sorry or understand, but every time he can't help but go back to his bullying ways because that is who he truly is. This is why there have been these phazes of banning for over a year and also the lies to say everyone was unbanned when they were not.

I can recall a few occasions that friends who did not ever even own his profilers endured verbal abuse just because due to his own scripting, it would show someone who bought a cat as the owner or advertiser of that cat after buying it on his profiler. That is obviously not their fault and is further example of how he cannot control his anger, puts it on the wrong person, and ruined his market. He made sure they would be unlikely to look for cats using his site again, and defeated his own product! The product obviously had worked for someone to TP to the cat and buy it. The proof was there on the profiler with the buyer's name being present. Surely one would say okay this was a success, not only did the buyer TP here but did buy the item also. Not him. He insulted the person buying the cat for their name being where it should not be in his view. The name was only there because of his own scripting or product or just how it is when the new owner owns it. It is hardly grounds to abuse people but any excuse is valid for him. Plus, in some cases this caused a further argument between the buyer and seller because they did not understand why this happened to them, afterall all they did was what would surely be good to buy the cat then out of nowhere get this crazy guy insulting them. No way would I use a product which involved some of my customers being insulted for no good reason. If I were the buyer, it would make darned sure I never bought RM profiler myself when I saw how he can behave.

Arwen Swordthain · 01-20-2018, 12:37 PM

I think alot of us were guilty of losing our cool. I recall one occasion where I lost it and wrote a very long post in response to an attack by Rene upon me. Upon hitting post I recieved notification that Callie had closed the thread as I was drafting my response. I did send Callie a PM thanking her for saving me from myself.
Mostly I have always tried not to respond to him but his lies and accusations got to me that day. I believe it may have been thread where he accused me of being the reason for his rules regardin muting and banning. I have always read the threads with interest and tried hard not to lose my temper and respond to him. When calm I knew not to respond because I knew the deluge of abuse I would recieve in return, another reason I am thankful for this calm thread, as you said Minx its a "safe place" for us to express our views and feelings calmly. For the longest time no one even knew I was being subjected to this abuse simply for not buying the profiler. It wasn't until I was banned and auctioneers noticed they couldn't load my cats into profilers that I began to talk to people about it. For me muting him wasn't an end to it as he found other ways to harass me and spoil my enjoyment of auctions.

Illuminatra Resident · 01-21-2018, 01:39 AM

Well ladies & gentlemen, you can add my name to the "banned" list for RM's profilers. He didn't contact and harass me like he did some of you. Instead, he just blocked me from being able to use the product that I RIGHTFULLY paid for in 2014. I am glad I didn't have to deal with him, because he would've just ended up getting cursed out LOL.

#TeamTorgon

And I still think RM should be banned from SL... but whatever. Karma is a _________.

Arwen Swordthain · 01-21-2018, 06:01 AM

Its the breeders using only Renes that I feel sorry for. As more and more of us use Torgons profilers exclusively we will naturally search there first for our purchases maybe only moving to look at Renes site if we can't find what we want.
In the past knowing some people use both I have started on Torgons and then moved to look at RMs if I can't find what I want but this was rare when looking for boxes. I do however buy a lot of live cats and when the Too Adorable love shack used RMs I did of course use the site if I was looking for something specific to save time, still browse the actual tables if I'm not sure what I want as a pretty cat will always grab me. Anyway with TA returning to Torgons and most of the dual users switching to Torgons after being harrassed I worry that breeders using Renes exclusively may suffer, so although I hate saying this we shouldn't forget that those people are victims too and its not their fault he behaves in this manner so we should still use the RMs market to see and buy those kitties rather than boycotting and hurting innocent members of our community.

Evolving Yin · (This post was last modified: 01-21-2018 09:39 AM by Evolving Yin.)

(01-21-2018 06:01 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote: Its the breeders using only Renes that I feel sorry for. As more and more of us use Torgons profilers exclusively we will naturally search there first for our purchases maybe only moving to look at Renes site if we can't find what we want.
In the past knowing some people use both I have started on Torgons and then moved to look at RMs if I can't find what I want but this was rare when looking for boxes. I do however buy a lot of live cats and when the Too Adorable love shack used RMs I did of course use the site if I was looking for something specific to save time, still browse the actual tables if I'm not sure what I want as a pretty cat will always grab me. Anyway with TA returning to Torgons and most of the dual users switching to Torgons after being harrassed I worry that breeders using Renes exclusively may suffer, so although I hate saying this we shouldn't forget that those people are victims too and its not their fault he behaves in this manner so we should still use the RMs market to see and buy those kitties rather than boycotting and hurting innocent members of our community.

I love your compassion Arwen, but I don't agree. Yes, they may be innocent in that they bought Rene's profilers like most of us did originally. However, if we want to support Torgon, and Torgon's customers who chose Togon profilers over Rene's, I believe we should give Torgon profiler breeders priority. Realistically, we also need to think of our own projects as well. So, if a cat with the traits we want is not listed at a reasonable price on Torgon's profilers, than yes it makes sense to resort to RM profilers.

The breeders who use RM profilers exclusively will notice a decline in sales. They will need to do their research (like we did) so they can make better business decisions that benefit their business (like we have). They can buy Torgon's profilers just as we have. It is VERY unfortunate that Rene has forced us into two markets and divided the community, but it is the reality we must face. When I was forced to choose, I not only chose Torgon's profilers over Rene's because it makes better business sense, I chose it because I want a healthier KittyCatS community.

Of course, this is only a suggestion since I believe in free will and we all have the right to choose what we believe is right. I am glad you raised the issue. If you are thinking this way perhaps others are as well. Best to get it on the table so we can discuss it.

Arwen Swordthain · 01-21-2018, 11:17 AM

(01-21-2018 06:52 AM)Evolving Yin Wrote:
(01-21-2018 06:01 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote: Its the breeders using only Renes that I feel sorry for. As more and more of us use Torgons profilers exclusively we will naturally search there first for our purchases maybe only moving to look at Renes site if we can't find what we want.
In the past knowing some people use both I have started on Torgons and then moved to look at RMs if I can't find what I want but this was rare when looking for boxes. I do however buy a lot of live cats and when the Too Adorable love shack used RMs I did of course use the site if I was looking for something specific to save time, still browse the actual tables if I'm not sure what I want as a pretty cat will always grab me. Anyway with TA returning to Torgons and most of the dual users switching to Torgons after being harrassed I worry that breeders using Renes exclusively may suffer, so although I hate saying this we shouldn't forget that those people are victims too and its not their fault he behaves in this manner so we should still use the RMs market to see and buy those kitties rather than boycotting and hurting innocent members of our community.
I love your compassion Arwen, but I don't agree. Yes, they may be innocent in that they bought Rene's profilers like most of us did originally. However, if we want to support Torgon, and Torgon's customers who chose Togon profilers over Rene's, I believe we should give Torgon profiler breeders priority. Realistically, we also need to think of our own projects as well. So, if a cat with the traits we want is not listed at a reasonable price on Torgon's profilers, than yes it makes sense to resort to RM profilers.

The breeders who use RM profilers exclusively will notice a decline in sales. They will need to do their research (like we did) so they can make better business decisions that benefit their business (like we have). They can buy Torgon's profilers just as we have. It is VERY unfortunate that Rene has forced us into two markets and divided the community, but it is the reality we must face. When I was forced to choose, I not only chose Torgon's profilers over Rene's because it makes better business sense, I chose it because I want a healthier KittyCatS community.

Of course, this is only a suggestion since I believe in free will and we all have the right to choose what we believe is right. I am glad you raised the issue. If you are thinking this way perhaps others are as well. Best to get it on the table so we can discuss it.

I agree with you and as I said most of us will naturally gravitate towards Torgons site as our way of finding the cats we want. thereby resulting in a drop in sales for those exclusively using RMs. All I was saying is that we should not actively encourage a boycott of the RMs site or breeders using his profiler, like the rest of you they bought them in good faith. Everything we do should be designed to unite the community not aid him in dividing it further. We need to act in a positive manner by encouraging people to switch to Torgons rather than discouraging from using RMs, it amounts to the same thing but in a positive way rather than a negative one.
I personally will still use Torgons as my main place to look for Cats but am not going to say I will not use RMs if I need to. The only reason I raised it was because someone stated earlier in the thread that they will not use the RMs website and I was concerned that we do not become like him and end up unintentionally bullying people to use Torgons.
But as you say we all have free will and the choices are ours to make as individuals which is essentially what this thread is about in the first place, someone forcing us to choose and taking away our free will.

Minx Diabolito · (This post was last modified: 01-21-2018 11:35 AM by Minx Diabolito.)

It's important we know we have a lot more support than is shown on the forums here.

I know quite a few people who are afraid to even put a like to this thread or posts in it mostly because of his harassment based on this in the past when people merely liked a comment and he would interrogate or ban them based on this. Illuminatra, possibly this is what happened to you. Possibly, probably LOL.

Illuminatra Resident · 01-21-2018, 11:49 AM

(01-21-2018 11:34 AM)Minx Diabolito Wrote: It's important we know we have a lot more support than is shown on the forums here.

I know quite a few people who are afraid to even put a like to this thread or posts in it mostly because of his harassment based on this in the past when people merely liked a comment and he would interrogate or ban them based on this. Illuminatra, possibly this is what happened to you. Possibly, probably LOL.

He probably got scared of me. Big Grin

Evolving Yin · (This post was last modified: 01-21-2018 12:44 PM by Evolving Yin.)

(01-21-2018 11:34 AM)Minx Diabolito Wrote: It's important we know we have a lot more support than is shown on the forums here.

I know quite a few people who are afraid to even put a like to this thread or posts in it mostly because of his harassment based on this in the past when people merely liked a comment and he would interrogate or ban them based on this. Illuminatra, possibly this is what happened to you. Possibly, probably LOL.

Glad you brought that up Minx. I am having numerous conversations with KittyCatS breeders outside of this thread/forum offering support for comments in this thread, and upset about Rene's new TOS. They choose to comment in private. Last year, I made comments on the forum that Rene did not like, and as you state he interrogated me about them. I finally went back and revised them so they wouldn't offend him. I know from personal experience he does this.

Minx Diabolito · 01-21-2018, 12:08 PM

I think so Illuminatra! LOL

That's right Evolving! There are well over 2000 views for this thread with only a handful of us actively speaking. So a lot of people are reading this and also speaking in private about it =)

Also, lots of newer people will read this and get an understanding of the situation and be able to fully see we are not a bunch of haters but actually intelligent people. Equally, they do see we were customers who were treated very poorly and unfairly. I've been asked a lot of questions in private about things we have discussed here, good kinds of questions, by people wanting to know more and also learn the facts, so that is awesome!