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TerrorMisu Resident · (This post was last modified: 01-11-2018 12:59 PM by TerrorMisu Resident.)

Well, thats a sure fire way to lose business, BIGLEY!
WHO wants to buy a product that has that stimulation? NOT me!

(01-10-2018 12:15 PM)MitsuruKirijo06 Resident Wrote:
(01-10-2018 08:32 AM)Evolving Yin Wrote:
(01-10-2018 04:45 AM)Minx Diabolito Wrote: Might be best to report under 'fraud' category because that is exactly what it is. It is not disclosed anywhere before you pay that you will be banned and lose your money with no refund given if you don't let him force you only to use his profilers. If you bought from marketplace report it there also. I see his site now has recently included the terms which say you will get banned for using anything but his profiler. The inworld listings and Marketplace listings do not include this info anywhere and never have - that's fraud that you buy something then later get forced into a horrible situation you never agreed to. He has every negative review removed on MP so it is hard to warn new people of the bad situation which awaits them.

I checked with Linden Labs support since I bought his product in world, and below is the response I got: I didn't report it as abuse because in my case I didn't think it was abuse just fraud. The only way at this point I can think to warn new breeders is via the forum and word of mouth, unless someone has a better idea.

"Hi Evolving, you can report fraud via Abuse Report inworld by clicking Help > Report Abuse...if it's a case of a purchase made and then users being banned from the sellers system and you feel you've suffered real world financial loss, that is something you would need to pursue outside of Second Life. In that particular case we would encourage you to seek private counsel on how to go forward with that.
-Jaida Linden"

Rene discloses it now and has it listed in his rules that he may ban people for using other products but it still isnt right and the real question is When did he add that to his rules? If it was after people bought the product than that is fraud.

Well then, do the next best thing! He has store on MarketPlace, you can always leave reviews for his profilers, so the next person is forwarned. Try to do it in ALL caps, BOLD, and fire engine red letters! Tongue

That should get peoples attention so they DON'T fall into his trap! And, if you are like me who bought directly from him and you arent able to leave a review, do what I did and piggyback on someone else comment! Big Grin

(01-10-2018 08:32 AM)Evolving Yin Wrote:
(01-10-2018 04:45 AM)Minx Diabolito Wrote: Might be best to report under 'fraud' category because that is exactly what it is. It is not disclosed anywhere before you pay that you will be banned and lose your money with no refund given if you don't let him force you only to use his profilers. If you bought from marketplace report it there also. I see his site now has recently included the terms which say you will get banned for using anything but his profiler. The inworld listings and Marketplace listings do not include this info anywhere and never have - that's fraud that you buy something then later get forced into a horrible situation you never agreed to. He has every negative review removed on MP so it is hard to warn new people of the bad situation which awaits them.

I checked with Linden Labs support since I bought his product in world, and below is the response I got: I didn't report it as abuse because in my case I didn't think it was abuse just fraud. The only way at this point I can think to warn new breeders is via the forum and word of mouth, unless someone has a better idea.

"Hi Evolving, you can report fraud via Abuse Report inworld by clicking Help > Report Abuse...if it's a case of a purchase made and then users being banned from the sellers system and you feel you've suffered real world financial loss, that is something you would need to pursue outside of Second Life. In that particular case we would encourage you to seek private counsel on how to go forward with that.
-Jaida Linden"

Emilia Darkwatch · 01-11-2018, 01:15 PM

He does not have the cojones to actually say what he does in IM to us all... lol...
if he did it would read honestly without any vagueness or obfuscation... "If you use Torgon's profiler or any other that may be invented in future... I will ban you"
So would the marketplace listing
So would the sign for the product at his store

He will not do it... yet expends so much energy going from person to person arguing and threatening them all. He was rude and unreasonable before this inability to have even one competitor, with the whole price thing... I can recall when I had not been here much for just over a week due to a death in my family. I returned to numerous notes and IM saying that I better update all my 100s of profilers immediately or would be banned. His words were rude but honestly I was just so drained at that point I sent him a note, very polite, explaining my personal situation and that I would do them as soon as possible and was not able to be in SL so much. I got an appalling response, with zero understanding nor empathy, even more strongly threatening to ban me if I do not do them right then and there. Not an "OK I can see why it could take you time, no problem"... far from it. All he cared about was "what can you do for me... do it now... no do it right now". It makes me sick I PAID HIM to have that happen, or any of us, it really does

Also, it is worth a mention that for months his own site said prettymuch "I will update the profilers when I feel like it and have time". Yet I'm meant to jump when he says jump and bothers to do it? He expects me to understand when he does not have time yet cannot do the same for me? Um no. Even for people without problems at that time, it was Christmas... it is perfectly natural that people would not be around or with time for this reason also. Just ridiculous lack of understanding for anyone but himself

He has royally trashed his reputation and business and still cannot stop blaming others for his problems he creates. The best way of making this better in some way... because I seriously doubt any of us will ever get any refund, though we should... is to make sure that we can spread the word of Torgon's profiler as much as possible to new people and make sure they do not have to go through what we have with 1000s of L wasted for literally nothing but a headache

Evolving Yin · (This post was last modified: 01-11-2018 03:00 PM by Evolving Yin.)

(01-11-2018 12:43 PM)TerrorMisu Resident Wrote: Well, thats a sure fire way to lose business, BIGLEY!
Well then, do the next best thing! He has store on MarketPlace, you can always leave reviews for his profilers, so the next person is forwarned. Try to do it in ALL caps, BOLD, and fire engine red letters! That should get peoples attention so they DON'T fall into his trap! And, if you are like me who bought directly from him and you arent able to leave a review, do what I did and piggyback on someone else comment! [/b]

You make me laugh Terror. I love how you can lift spirits even in a thread like this one. I decided to go take a look and see what you are talking about on MarketPlace. He has all positive comments there. How is that possible? It still seems that the forum here is the best way to warn new breeders.

(01-11-2018 01:15 PM)Emilia Darkwatch Wrote: I can recall when I had not been here much for just over a week due to a death in my family. I returned to numerous notes and IM saying that I better update all my 100s of profilers immediately or would be banned. His words were rude but honestly I was just so drained at that point I sent him a note, very polite, explaining my personal situation and that I would do them as soon as possible and was not able to be in SL so much. I got an appalling response, with zero understanding nor empathy, even more strongly threatening to ban me if I do not do them right then and there. Not an "OK I can see why it could take you time, no problem"... far from it. All he cared about was "what can you do for me... do it now... no do it right now". It makes me sick I PAID HIM to have that happen, or any of us, it really does.

I am so sorry this happened to you Emilia. I love your ability to cut to the chase and say it like it is. Torgon's proifilers were born out of necessity. We needed an alternative so we don't have to bow to Rene's unreasonable demands. Torgon came to our rescue.

Minx Diabolito · (This post was last modified: 01-11-2018 04:24 PM by Minx Diabolito.)

He had negative comments Evolving, but they all get removed O.O

Though I think maybe it is because people get so fed up by then it is very difficult to actually write any factual review of the product on MP at that point. Understandably they are upset he put them in a very unfair position to choose and when they would not he banned them. So anyone has to be careful of that and make sure you give no personal attack to him even though that would be hard. I think if it was written in a more factual way it would stand a good chance of staying on MP and be no grounds for him to complain and the powers that be maybe would not take it off MP. Saying that, it is really hard to keep feelings and emotions out of it because part of the hurt that is caused is to those =/

I would write a review myself and try that out but I never bought it from Marketplace to be able to do that. Thank goodness for the forum where we can write it and support each other, as well as hopefully helping new people not to fall into the trap of buying RM.

TerrorMisu Resident · 01-11-2018, 04:57 PM

See? I am not just another pretty face! haaaaa!! And, so you know, you don't have to leave one review! You can leave many! <chuckles>

I would write a review myself and try that out but I never bought it from Marketplace to be able to do that. Thank goodness for the forum where we can write it and support each other, as well as hopefully helping new people not to fall into the trap of buying RM.
[/quote]

Minx Diabolito · 01-11-2018, 04:59 PM

LOL, good suggestion Terror! Ty! Let's see if MP removes it or not, I don't see why they should because it is just the truth!

TerrorMisu Resident · (This post was last modified: 01-11-2018 08:58 PM by TerrorMisu Resident.)

(01-11-2018 04:57 PM)TerrorMisu Resident Wrote: See? I am not just another pretty face! haaaaa!! And, so you know, you don't have to leave one review! You can leave many! <chuckles>

I would write a review myself and try that out but I never bought it from Marketplace to be able to do that. Thank goodness for the forum where we can write it and support each other, as well as hopefully helping new people not to fall into the trap of buying RM.

I bet we can "blog" in the comments section of MP too! Tongue

Tad Carlucci · 01-11-2018, 05:33 PM

Just be careful what you say on the SL Marketplace. The LL ToS applies there and you don't want it to backfire on you.

I don't think there is a way to remove unwanted comments there short of delisting the product and making a new listing. And doing that *IS* a violation of the Marketplace ToS.

TerrorMisu Resident · 01-11-2018, 09:14 PM

(01-11-2018 04:59 PM)Minx Diabolito Wrote: LOL, good suggestion Terror! Ty! Let's see if MP removes it or not, I don't see why they should because it is just the truth!

Negative reviews are necessary! Idea

If his ill-mannered business practices affect his bottom line then perhaps he will change? Idea

"Negative reviews are important for both companies and consumers — they provide a fair counterbalance to positive reviews and help build credibility and trust among your customer base. They also can lead to product improvements."
http://blog.bazaarvoice.com/2017/02/09/n...iews-crfa/

" A negative review can drive away approximately 22% of customers"
https://www.brightlocal.com/2017/03/15/the-impact-of-online-reviews/

Minx Diabolito · 01-11-2018, 09:22 PM

It's true we need to be careful what we write on the MP. As long as we don't insult and such, the MP review should I hope remain valid. I was careful what I wrote for mine and stuck to facts ^.^
If it gets too personal or mean he can easily claim we are being unfair to him and someone will remove the reviews, and it is how it could look to an outsider, especially as they do not understand the situation as we do.