Confetti Blueberry recessiveness

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Since there is no Blueberry thread. I'll start one in case people are interested in looking at charts on Blueberry specifically. I am copying posts from other threads on findings.

From the Appleberry thread:
12-30-2015, 09:13 AM
Post: #6
fabioazevedo Oh
A miner of new traits!
****

RE: Confetti Appleberry : Post proofs here please
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Blog: Mr.Cat - breeding, market and classes

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Hi Ivy,
Part of why I am creating some threads on specific confetti colors is that I created and update the Index of threads on finding dominance of traits. People use the index to find threads where to post charts. Since more people have begun to post proofs on the forum and a couple of proofs showed on Confetti furs, I realized that some furs are missing threads which means that the proof is published on one half of the dominance and not the other half. For example, the proof on Grapeberry recessive to Orangeberry was published on Orangeberry but as there was no Grapeberry thread, not published on Grapeberry. Also in the past, some proofs on the forum wasn't showing on Saga and needed to be re-sent. Some proofs were six months old. For awhile I combed the eyes and furs and re-sent things I found. Since they are caught up on eyes and furs and since a group of us finished getting the Crystals set, I thought making the confettis clearer could be the next big project for a bigger group like the forum. Also cleaning things up may mean that some earlier charts may actually be proofs now.

Also on a personal note, I'm not crazy about confettis but one of my friends is. She asks me questions. I've used the Saga chart and their "worksheet for stuff" tab but I find I remember things better if I see them so I like seeing actual profs.

I could be wrong but I think some confetti proofs may need two or three or four breeders sharing charts openly to create one proof due to the way people trade confettis. For example I got all boys for several months and when you only get 2 or 3 per 120 day breeding cycle that can be a big problem. I was retiring pairs without being able to open a replacement pair. So I traded two of my boys to a couple friends for two girls. And I share information with them if I discover hids. Example, I found the blueberry hid plum which meant her father cocoberry hid plum so I shared that which as it turns out she already knew as she had just made a parent/child pure box. (Turns out Dad was a good breeder and got 4 conf kids). Still if she gets a proof with that father with another partner, she might have needed my chart of his blueberry daughter to prove his hid to show proof of dominance. In talking to her, I realized things would be simpler if we share charts on the forum if we think we might have a proof. I think a lot of us are trading confettis or buying them just due to how few berries pop. So I think collaborative proofs may be helpful for some dominance proofs.

This might be an example of a collaborative proof. Saga already shows Blueberry dominant to Plumberry and Plumberry dominant to Appleberry but for this example, let's say we don't know that
So I provide chart A showing Appleberry is recessive to Plumberry

then my friend provides Chart B showing
Blueberry Mom and Appleberry Dad having a Plumberry kid. 1st chart proves Appleberry is recessive to Plumberry so therefore the Plumberry has to come from Mom and proves mom's hid. Both charts together would be bundled together and sent off to Saga although from two different breeders. (Maybe not the best example since the child of chart A was paired with my friend's girl so Chart A wouldn't be needed as it's actually on the right side but you can see what I mean how a two-chart proof might come from two people if I had given her the boy instead of her givng me the girl. )


Anyways that was my thinking in creating some missing Confetti threads: blueberry, cherryberry and grapeberry. Since you're reading the threads, I put this explanation on the Blueberry and Plum threads just because of the example chart so it at least falls in the right category even though it's not necessary.

[Alassariah Resident]

Thank you, Kayla! You're awesome! Here is a Blueberry proof.



Parents, Meneleah and Josiah, both purchased from separate breeders, both white hiding blueberry or more recessive. Baby Nacho showed Blueberry proving Blueberry is recessive to Cocoberry

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Thank you, Alassariah!

Mom Lianna gets Cocoberry from her dad Ridgely. So she hides Blueberry or more recessive from her mom Nacho
Clarke shows Cocoberry as does both is parents but he has to hide Blueberry or more recessive because he and Liana produced a Blueberry.

---

I'm also going to try something and somebody tell me if my logic is lacking. I am going to treat this like algebra where you have some info and some is missing.
Here is the known info
first column is where the proof is: forum is just forum as you can see the proof on the berry thread. Saga shows the update date if known

forum Appleberry rec to Blueberry
Saga 12/14/16 Appleberry Dom to Grapeberry
forum Appleberry rec to Orangeberry
forum Appleberry rec to Plumberry
Saga 7/16/16 Appleberry Dom to Tealberry

forum Blueberry dom to Appleberry
Saga, no update hist Blueberry dome to Grapeberry (ns)
saga 11/1/2015 Blueberry dome to Plumberry
alson on forum Blueberry dome to Plumberry

forum Cherryberry dom to Lemonberry
Saga 4/1/16 Cherryberry dom Limeberry
forum Cherryberry rec to Orangeberrry
Saga 10/11/15 CherryBerry rec PlumBerry
Saga 11/29/15 Cherryberry dom to Tealberry

Saga 12/14/16 Grapeberry rec to Appleberry
Saga, no update hist Grapeberry rec to Blueberry
Saga 7/11/16 GrapeBerry rec to LemonBerry
Saga 7/16/16 GrapeBerry rec to PlumBerry
Saga 11/23/16 GrapeBerry dom to Pinkberry
forum Grapeberry rec to Orangeberry

forum Lemonberry rec to CherryBerry
Saga 7/11/16 LemonBerry dom to Grapeberry
Saga 11/1/16 Lemonberry dom to Tealberry

Saga 4/1/16 Limeberry rec Cherryberry
forum LimeBerry rec PinkBerry
Saga, no update hist LimeBerry rec PlumBerry
Saga 5/12/16 LimeBerry rec TealBerry

forum Orangeberry dom to Appleberry
forum Orangeberry dome to cherryberry
forum Orangeberry dom to Grapeberry
Saga 1/29/16 Orangeberry dome to Tealberry

Saga 7/16/16 PinkBerry rec PlumBerry
Saga 11/23/16 PinkBerry rec GrapeBerry
forum Pinkberry dom Limeberry

forum Plumberry dom Appleberry
forum Plumberry rec Blueberry
Saga 10/11/15 Plumberry dom Cherryberry
Saga 7/16/16 Plumberry dom Grapeberry
Saga, no update hist Plumberry dom Limeberry
Saga 7/16/16 Plumberry dom Pinkberry
Saga 11/1/15 Plumberry dom to Tealberry

Saga 7/16/16 Tealberry rec to Appleberry
Saga 11/29/15 Tealberry rec to Cherryberry
Saga 11/1/16 Tealberry rec to Lemonberry
Saga 5/12/16 Tealberry dom Limeberry
Saga 1/29/16 Tealberry rec Orangeberry
Saga 11/1/15 Tealberry rec Plumberry

---

Okay so let's just look at Blueberry
Blueberry dom to Appleberry
Blueberry dome to Grapeberry (ns)
Blueberry dome to Plumberry
Blueberry dome to Plumberry

So to add some more eyes that blueberry is dominant to, I am going to use the following algebra logic
if x dom to y and y dom to z, then x is dom to z

Blueberry is dom to Appleberry so it has to be dom to anything Appleberry is dom to
Blueberry dom to Appleberry dom to Tealberry
So Blueberry is dom to Tealberry

Blueberry is dom to Grapeberry so it has to be dom to anything Grapeberry is dom to
Blueberry dom to GrapeBerry dom to Pinkberry
So Blueberry is dom to Pinkberry

Blueberry is dom to Plumberry so it has to be dom to anything Plumberry is dom to
Blueberry is dom to Plumberry dom Cherryberry
Blueberry is dom to Plumberry dom Limeberry
So Blueberry is dom to CherryBerry and Limeberry

Since Blueberry is dom to Cherryberry which is dom to Lemonberry
Blueberry is dom to Lemonberry

Ivy Lane also made this handy chart of where things are at


So the only question is Orangeberry as it is showing dom to some of the same eyes Blueberry is dom to but I don't see it recessive to anything. I am thinking there might be a Plumberry vs Orangeberry chart out there but don't see it on Saga or the forum.

Does that seem correct? I know the assumption is Blueberry is most dominant after Cocoberry but Orangeberry looks like a hole that needs to be plugged. If I missed seeing a chart on Saga or on the forum that Orangeberry is proven recessive to something, let me know or if you have such a chart, please post it on the Orangeberry thread (and whichever color it is showing recessive to). I know Eleanor showed a chart where an Orangeberry had a Blueberry, Appleberry, Plumberry and Orangeberry children but the Orangeberry could have thrown a more recessive hid unless one of those kids proved to have Orangeberry hid like that Plum.

Anyways that's my question for the day. Since I can get OCD, I'll probably use the same logic and go through each color unless someone tells me this logic of x dom to y dom to z means x is dom to z also is unsound.

[Alassariah Resident]

(01-02-2017 06:33 PM)Kayla Woodrunner Wrote:  ...If I missed seeing a chart on Saga or on the forum that Orangeberry is proven recessive to something, let me know or if you have such a chart, please post it on the Orangeberry thread (and whichever color it is showing recessive to). I know Eleanor showed a chart where an Orangeberry had a Blueberry, Appleberry, Plumberry and Orangeberry children but the Orangeberry could have thrown a more recessive hid unless one of those kids proved to have Orangeberry hid like that Plum.

Anyways that's my question for the day. Since I can get OCD, I'll probably use the same logic and go through each color unless someone tells me this logic of x dom to y dom to z means x is dom to z also is unsound.

I will go ahead and birth my boxes we were discussing to try to determine the Plum/Orange dominance. I think they may help in providing the proof (if they want to!).

[Kayla Woodrunner]

this is actually Jhan's chart, note mine

It proves Blueberry is dominant to Orangeberry so it's a good confirmation. Now just need one for Plumberry re Orangeberry and that section will be set.

Mom Martiza shows Blueberry
Both her paretns show Blueberry

Dad Geoffrey shows Cocoberry
Dad's Mom Midge shows Cocoberry so he gets his Cocoberry from her
Dad's Dad Sky shows Blueberry so he gets his hid from Dad

Maritza and Geofrey had a baby
Norville shows Orangeberry

So Norville's GrandDad Sky on dad's side hides Orangeberry or more recessive
Mom Maritza hides Orangeberry or more recessive
Either way a Blueberry hides Orangeberry (just don't know which Blueberry) so this proves Blueberry is dominant to Orangeberry



To sweeten the pot, Norville had a baby with a Plumberry and got a Tealberry back. So one of his Blueberry ancestors hides Orangeberry and the other Blueberry hides Tealberry or more recessive.

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Blueberry is complete

forum 1/2/17 Blueberry dom to Appleberry
Saga, no update hist Blueberry dom to Grapeberry (ns)
forum 1/2/17 Blueberry dom to Grapeberry
saga 11/1/2015 Blueberry dom to Plumberry
forum 1/2/17 Blueberry dom to Plumberry
forum 1/16/17 Blueberry dom to Orangeberry

Blueberry is dom to Appleberry so it has to be dom to anything Appleberry is dom to
Appleberry dom to Tealberry
So Blueberry is dom to Tealberry

Blueberry is dom to Grapeberry dom to Pinkberry

Blueberry is dom to Plumberry dom Cherryberry and Limeberry

Since Blueberry is dom to Plumberry which is dom to Cherryberry
Cherryberry dom to Lemonberry

blueberry
done dom to appleberry
done dom to cherryberry
done dom to grapeberry
done dom to lemonberry
done dom to limeberry
done dom to orangeberry
done dom to pinkberry
done dom to plumberry
done dom to tealberry

Blueberry dom to appleberry, cherryberry, grapeberry, lemonberry, limeberry, pinkberry, plumberry, tealberry

Blueberry is placed between Cocoberry and Plumberry.

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Another chart from Ivy's Imgur Confetti site. This chart belongs to Sapphire.

this is a double proof chart

The right side of this chart proves Blueberry is dominant to Plumberry
The left side of the chart proves Blueberry is dominant to Grapeberry

Dad's side
Grandma Playa and Grandpa Hawk show Blueberry
giving birth to the Dad Filmore, a Plumberry

Mom's side
Grandma Smurfette and Grandpa Poppa show Blueberry
giving birth to the Mom Sapphire, a Grapeberry



I love this double perfect proof -- first time I've seen a double proof in one chart.