American Shorthair - Cream & White Tabby

[AbiJen Resident]

hi, i'm fairly new to breeding, had cats for about 3 months now and only recently started breeding them with any plan in place.

I've got an American Shorthair - Cream & White Tabby, mated with a Foxie - Blondie. please correct me if i'm wrong, i am assuming that "Cream & White Tabby" on line 72 of the Saga charts is the American Shorthair? I've just had a box arrive from this pair which has given an Aby Ruddy, which looking at the Saga charts is dominant to both shown furs of the parents. Am i looking at the wrong chart position for the American Shorthair or is there an error in the chart? I'm guessing the first but wanted some clarification.


Edit:
On looking again at the mom's (Cream and White) pedigree, i noticed she gave me another Ruddy with a different dad, a Aust. Mist - Fawn. At the time I had a pair of Ruddy's popping boxes out too so i guess i never noticed the parents it was from.

[Peaches Latrell]

Hi AbiJen, this is interesting. I have always assumed that the 'cream and white tabby' on the saga chart was the ASH. So yes, it does show the ruddy as dominant to both parents. Can you post a snapshot of the ruddy kitten's pedigree, please?
Thanks!

I also found this older thread that has a comment saying that ruddy is recessive to the snowshoe chocolate (which is between ruddy and cream and white on the saga chart now) but I dont see a picture with proof of this
https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=3093&highlight=ruddy

[AbiJen Resident]

Here is the pedigree for the Ruddy kitten. I'm glad I'm not the only person to be confused about this.

[Bea Shamrock]

That's strange indeed

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Your proof is pretty conclusive that Ruddy is recessive to Cream & White, AbiJen.

Some of the earlier furs may need slight adjustments.

I don't think the current volunteers were involved in the earliest work. It doesn't happen often that a trait needs to be moved but it does happen. I remember my shock when I found on my cats taht Exotic Treasure and Double Dip needed to be flipped. I sent in my proofs and they corrected it. Until then I thought Saga's charts was "perfect". Now I think it's maybe 90-95% which is still pretty good. It's probably why they instituted the 2 chart rule for final proof. As more people become savvy in dominance (a hid cannot be dominant), I think all of us together will find any others in the wrong spot.

Please send your proof to Saga's so they can put it in their notes on the bottom.

Meantime, I'll add this section to the list
[img]https://gyazo.com/ea08c2895f06a33e5dba055f337b7fbf.png[img]

Abyssinian Ruddy
Snowshoe Chocolate
Cream & White Tabby

If anyone has Snowshoe Chocolate out, maybe they could pair up with someone who has Aby Ruddy or Cream & White Tabby. I am thinking if Ruddy is going to go under Tabby, it should be checked if the Snowshoe is really recessive to Ruddy.

[AbiJen Resident]

Thank you Kayla for the explanation. Since I have only recently begun to breed my cats, I too assumed that the charts were pretty much perfect. Having read posts with mention of the 2 chart proof method I guessed that this had mostly been this way as the charts grew, and therefore made the charts accurate. I actully thought the misunderstanding in the Ruddy placement was my own, not reading the charts correctly so I understand the shock you felt with the Exotic Treasure/Double Dip reversal.

I've now sent the pedigree to Saga, hopefully the placement will be figured out soon. let me know if there is anything I can do to help with this.

Abi.

[Reven Rosca]

I suggested something that didn't make sense because I got two furs mixed, so I have deleted my suggestion so I won't confuse people.

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Hi Abi, If you could start a thread called something like Aby Ruddy recessivenss and post your charts that show it is recessive to the Cream & Whtie, that would help. I'll go look at my Ruddy charts and see what I have that might fit in there. There are some people really into Aby furs so hopefully with it's own thread, they'll notce and post some charts.

Hi Revan, I could be wrong but I'm willing to bet Ruddy is close to it's true position. Usually when something has been swapped, it's only been a matter of 1 to 3 positions. Since I number my furs and eyes to track dominance in my cat spreadsheet and have to renumber every so often as things get placed and found, in the last 2 years, I've only noticed aobut 3 times that something got repositioned and shifts were small. So I would think a check against Tawny tabby and Snowshoe Chocolate would probably fix it correctly. Snowshoe Chocolate should be verified against the Cream & White, though. I have some old Snowshoe charts so I think I'll go check them.

By the way, found this so it verified the Cream and White Tabby is dominant to Tawny Tabby

Rheda, my very old Cream & White Tabby, had Tawny Tabby hid as proven against an Ocicat Ebony Silver

[Reven Rosca]

Sorry, Kayla. I mixed Foxie Blondie with Foxie Auburn, and agree completely.

Studying charts in the AM hours isn't always a good idea.

[Kayla Woodrunner]

No worries, Revan, happens to me all the time but worse. I flip dom/rec when I'm sleepy or rushing (and right and left).

I also found this box. I can pop it to check Cream & White against Snowshoe Chocolate if someone doesn't already have a proven chart. (Rather not pop it--mysterious ears, silver whiskers, gah!)