Abyssinian - Salt & Pepper

[Arwen Swordthain]

Hi Sannctuary, looking at the pedigree it appears likely that GraceAnnes mother hid Toyger Caramel or possibly Burmilla Lilac, we would need to see GraceAnne pedigree to get a better idea, either way her mother passd her hidden fur rather than the shown Australian Mist Charcoal. Its not uncommon for this to happen, GraceAnne has then passed it as well. The Toyger Caramel is indeed still a good choice to use as its recessive to the Salt & Pepper, every time we breed we have a 50/50 chance at either the shown or hidden passing. Your next several breeds might produce the Aby Salt and Pepper but equally GraceAnne may pass her hidden again several times. I have had a couple of cats pass the hidden the first 8 boxes then finally the shown trait I was after on box number 9, its very frustrating but does happen.
I'd carry on with what you are doing if you fancy changing mates stick with a fur recessive to Burmilla Chocolate Silver Shaded as although we haven't seen a clear proof yet all the evidence does point to the Salt & Pepper being dominant to that fur.
Good luck with your breeding

[Reven Rosca]

I'm dying to know what this girl hides. She should have dropped her first box by now. Can you please update us, Coverboy?

(12-10-2017 10:21 PM)Coverboytoy Resident Wrote:  Ocicat Black vs Abby Salt and Pepper

However, I'm unsure which is more dominate based on this picture. It is very interesting to try to figure it out. Definitely would like to hear some feedback. If I have time and the resources, I'll try to breed her back to dad, and feel Ocicat Black is dominate than Abby Salt and Pepper.

[Coverboytoy Resident]

I haven't opened her yet due to many live cats lol

I have too many cats opened, but when I do, I will definitely update the forum.

(12-27-2017 08:28 AM)Reven Rosca Wrote:  I'm dying to know what this girl hides. She should have dropped her first box by now. Can you please update us, Coverboy?

(12-10-2017 10:21 PM)Coverboytoy Resident Wrote:  Ocicat Black vs Abby Salt and Pepper

However, I'm unsure which is more dominate based on this picture. It is very interesting to try to figure it out. Definitely would like to hear some feedback. If I have time and the resources, I'll try to breed her back to dad, and feel Ocicat Black is dominate than Abby Salt and Pepper.

[Reven Rosca]

Hurry!!! *laughs*
We don't know much about this new fur, and we need more testing to place it.
All we know is that Abyssinian Salte and Pepper probably is dominant to Toyger Caramel and possibly also to Burmilla Chocolate.

We also know that it may be recessive to Ocicat Black,and that there is a small possibility that it is dominant to Australian Mist Lilac and/or Toyger Tan.

All this makes the Aby S&P a wildcard fur: It could be the 6th most recessive and therefore sought after by those who shop at auctions and breed for recessives.

On the other hand, it could be the new dominant fur that experienced breeders have wanted for a long time, and it will be sought after by couture breeders.

It also seems to be a very rare fur. Only three breeders have found it (and posted in the thread), and there are only two for sale grid wide.

(12-27-2017 08:58 PM)Coverboytoy Resident Wrote:  I haven't opened her yet due to many live cats lol

I have too many cats opened, but when I do, I will definitely update the forum.

(12-27-2017 08:28 AM)Reven Rosca Wrote:  I'm dying to know what this girl hides. She should have dropped her first box by now. Can you please update us, Coverboy

[Coverboytoy Resident]

I finally have the Ocicat Black Girl mating with a Caramel Male. So will see what happens. I do hope it's recessive to Ocicat Black. *crosses fingers.

Also, I have the starter cat who hides the fur mating with an Aussie Mist Snow hiding Abby Dark Chocolate.

I'll add update the thread once the kitties are born.

[Coverboytoy Resident]

Sigh, I got a gen fur back so will try again
However, I found out my starter that hides the fur hides a Lush tail.

(12-29-2017 03:48 AM)Coverboytoy Resident Wrote:  Also, I have the starter cat who hides the fur mating with an Aussie Mist Snow hiding Abby Dark Chocolate.

I'll add update the thread once the kitties are born.

[Coverboytoy Resident]

Pairing the starter that hides the Abby Salt and Pepper vs. Aussie Mist Snow hiding Abby Dark Chocolate, and Abby Salt and Pepper won. Please add your feedback based on this proof. I would like to hear everyone's thoughts.

I'm going to say it's dominate to Aussie Mist Snow.

[Arwen Swordthain]

If you are able to show a proof that Super Posh, the grandfather hides Aby Dark Chocolate we can say its dominant to that but unfortunately because the Snow does hide something we cannot say its dominant to snow without you opening the baby and pulling the hid preferably with a fur recessive to by Dark choc. At the moment all we know is something hides and looking back up the pedigree, without seeing the proof grandad hides it, we cannot be sure that its even Aby Dark Choc as theres a Gen fur with an unknown hid in the parents of the Dark Choc as well which could potentially have passed a more recessive fur.
Best way to call what this cat hides is to pull it back out and then you will have a definitive proof that can be used by both sets of charts to update the position of this fur. This is a great start to the test because you got the Aby S&P back so whatever it hides is a final proof, you just need to complete the work and pull the hid, as I said go recessive to see what hides. Unfortunately dominance testing is rarely a case of putting 2 cats together and getting a result, often we need to pull out the hidden fur to know for sure. I realise its frustrating waiting 2 weeks for the baby to grow then hoping it passes the hid first time, which they rarely do, but this is why it takes so long to place furs that are not uber recessive like Toyger Coal. A lot of trial and error and frustration is involved. Good Luck and I hope the cat co operates for you.

[Coverboytoy Resident]

Okay looking at the past pedigrees, Aussie Mist Snow hides Abby Dark Chocolate, and the Abby Dark Chocolate hides Foxie Chestnut. However, I am unable to see if the Foxie Chestnut hides anything more recessive, and wouldn't be surprised if the Foxie Chestnut hides a Burmilla or Caramel.

Here I thought Abby Dark was the most recessive in the line but after further investigation, Foxie Chestnut was found to be the most recessive. What's hiding under the Foxie is unknown. Now I can see why this process takes so long figuring things out lol. I'll keep posting my findings, and it makes me want to pair my starter with a solid Toyger Tan. I may try to do that once I am able to.

(01-05-2018 02:30 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote:  If you are able to show a proof that Super Posh, the grandfather hides Aby Dark Chocolate we can say its dominant to that but unfortunately because the Snow does hide something we cannot say its dominant to snow without you opening the baby and pulling the hid preferably with a fur recessive to by Dark choc. At the moment all we know is something hides and looking back up the pedigree, without seeing the proof grandad hides it, we cannot be sure that its even Aby Dark Choc as theres a Gen fur with an unknown hid in the parents of the Dark Choc as well which could potentially have passed a more recessive fur.
Best way to call what this cat hides is to pull it back out and then you will have a definitive proof that can be used by both sets of charts to update the position of this fur. This is a great start to the test because you got the Aby S&P back so whatever it hides is a final proof, you just need to complete the work and pull the hid, as I said go recessive to see what hides. Unfortunately dominance testing is rarely a case of putting 2 cats together and getting a result, often we need to pull out the hidden fur to know for sure. I realise its frustrating waiting 2 weeks for the baby to grow then hoping it passes the hid first time, which they rarely do, but this is why it takes so long to place furs that are not uber recessive like Toyger Coal. A lot of trial and error and frustration is involved. Good Luck and I hope the cat co operates for you.

[Coverboytoy Resident]

Here is another interesting picture from Julia. She mated with a Russian Black and the Abby Salt and Pepper won. Very interesting indeed.

So perhaps it maybe dominate to Russian Black.