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Profilers make playing KittyCats more interesting!
01-15-2017, 01:46 PM (This post was last modified: 01-15-2017 01:49 PM by MoonHowler Snowpaw.)
Post: #21
RE: Profilers make playing KittyCats more interesting!
Technically all was more than perfect. I think, the best is to solve it technically as well - remove what legally should be removed and continue the great tool with database, statistics and loveshacks... There always be those who like something and those who dislike, and the same things is not same to all. Pictures are not necessary if it's the problem. And why should we judge who and how talks with others without knowing them well? Maybe the complaining persons were rude themselves. I don't know. I know that with me he talks nicely, and the site worked perfectly. Should i really know more than this? I think no. I think that all drama should be left to persons involved in it, but the solution should be just technical, even though it's also very emotional subject.
And if the prices are so sensitive to many, it's better to make them optional, it's obvious.
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01-15-2017, 01:49 PM
Post: #22
RE: Profilers make playing KittyCats more interesting!
I am saying he is a thief because he is. He is taking things illegally and making profit from it and has been doing it for some time. Read Callie's Letter Lexi.
Also I know him to be a thief because he has disabled my profilers and many others profilers of people whom he did not like because we would not comply to his rules...WHICH by the way were not there nor was the website when this product started out.
As he has created the website and now he has controlled more and more of what people do or do not do because of threats and bullying. Perhaps its ok to some but its not ok to most of us As an auctioneer I have BOTH profilers and both of my profilers were disabled because I refused to use them the way he wanted me to and that was not ok with him. So he harassed me and yelled and screamed at me and when I would not comply he disabled them. No refund...no appology. This is just the beginning of it. I have been auctioning for years and years and I have been to not 1 ...not 2 ...but 3 different sims...that he has harassed the owners so badly when I was there because he hates people he can't control so much that he threatened the owners that their profilers would be disabled and all of them on the sim even the renters if they did not fire me. And I'm also not the only one he did that to. Further more he would NOT list auctions in his auction schedule which caused many long time auctioneers to lose spots they had had for years and for the auction to be taken over primarily by one sim. He has done all this to me and to others I know personally because we would not let him bully us.
FURTHER MORE... This has not just suddenly come to a head. I have personally known about this issue for well over a year now and I am not the only one. I don't know all the details but I was made aware that Callie and KittyCats were dealing with it and as you can see in her letter...if you read it...it didn't go well. This is NOT about whether you paid for the pictures or not this is about a man stealing copy written material that is legally hers to profit from and using this material to make a profit for himself. As for other pictures...most people are not selling them or breaking the law in using them. Many people have access to the logo in the limited fashion KittyCats has released it. Anyone else that is using the material or has used it in the past has had permission. Personal photographs of you kittens is totally legal. But this is not the same thing.
And let me explain this one last thing to you. In order to make those profilers work he must have thousands and thousands of pictures from KittyCats. He did not make these pictures...he STOLE them ..dipped into KittyCats computer and stole them. He did not take every single cat picture you see on these profilers...those images BELONG by COPYRIGHT to KittyCats...which is a registered trade mark.
This is a big deal. It is not just one one level. He took money from hundreds if not thousands of KittyCats clients selling his product by way of using their registered name. He profited for over 3 years off of a stolen product. He has continued to bully and harass and grief many people over this time when they tried to stop him from controlling them. He has stolen from EVER SINGLE ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THE PROFILERS NOW IF HE DOES NOT RETURN THE MONEY. Lets look at that shall we...

lets make this an average of 10 US money. So many people have bought the more expensive version and some currencies are not as on par with american currency so lets just say an average of $10. Lets say he has sold 2000 of these profilers... We have no clue really and these are not his first profilers that he has made..he has done this to other companies...research it. 10 x 2000 = 20,000 Thats just at 2000....i am sure he has sold many many more and the amount adds up to much more. $20,000 us dollars. Now if you add to that the royalties he would have been paying for had he gotten the materials from Callie legally....he made money on that...i can imagine a fair sum, by not having to pay for it. Now lets take that and add in what he makes off his website. He had advertisers on there. He would have made money for every hit to his website. He is not stupid. I don't think that at all he had a brilliant product. But the material for it was obtained illegally and operated illegally and he made a lot of profit on both the website and the product. And essentially stole this money.

Yes my post is assertive. If you are blind to the real world and what is right and wrong and what is just and fair then of course you think I am a bully and Callie is the bad guy. But if you are aware that this is REAL LIFE we are talking about then how can you be ok with what this REAL man did. There are LAWS in the REAL WORLD and in SECOND LIFE about this. We think this is a game. That what we do here has nothing to do with real life. That is false. Rene bullied me so badly...he traumatized me. I have proof. I have witnesses and I am not the only one. He Verbally assaulted me. He Bullied me horribly, He said things about me that are horrible... He bullied and verbally assaulted and hurt OTHERS for being friends with me and he STOLE MY RL money as well...it was just $30 buck us but omg! who does that! . ALL OF THAT my friend is something I can't imagine in my whole life doing to someone else. And I am one of MANY this happened to including Callie from the sounds of it.

If you think this a game and can overlook what he as done because it helps you sell a KittyCat then I think I said the exact right thing to whom it applies to in my previous post.

As for me I am rejoicing this day along with many others that this man is finally going to be gone from our lives. I have heard several people tell me of the anxiety he has caused. People with disabilities flock to kittycats because of how soothing it is.. We do this because some of us are bedridden, some have mental disabilities and some have had much trauma in their lives. There is a huge group of people in the KittyCats community that have this community and nothing else. I personally suffer from anxiety, I have a physical disability that keeps me at home. My friends are here. Rene bullied me so badly last spring ...IN voice...In REAL LIFE...he had a group of his cronys gang up on me on open chat....and in IM's and literally made me so anxious and so traumatized I had to leave SL for months. But i remained in kittycats thanks so much to the cattery online. They have improved it so much rene's profiler is redundant except for the easy sale one might make by jumpers.

Anyway.. I have every right to comment on this and I have a whole other side of the story you obviously have not seen or know about. AGAIN I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON THIS HAS HAPPENED TO. I have witnesses and proof of every single thing I am saying. Rene has words...and he is good at manipulation....he is a crooked sales man. He can sell ice cubes to inuit and even call them eskimos while doing it. And just so we are clear. What I have said is not defamation of character , libel or slander because every word I am speaking is the provable truth.

Think about that for a while.
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01-15-2017, 01:51 PM
Post: #23
RE: Profilers make playing KittyCats more interesting!
(01-15-2017 01:25 PM)Malin Sabra Wrote:  It became an issue when the creator of the profile attempted to force people to put a price on the profilers and a ton of people complained about it. Thats why it took years because it wasn't an issue before.
....
... I'm sure she got a barrage of IMs/Notecards about the price forcing/bullying.

I see your point of view, Malin Smile

I honestly thing that prices are amazing but can see also other's point of view and it's clear that sellers, like you, for exapmle, can have different business strategies and the best thing, for me, would be let all decide if put prices or not in the profiler.
This would make a fantastic add-on feature and nobody would feel forced to do nothing.
And i'm sure too that many people confused the profiler as a KittyCatS item instead a 3rd part tool. But people often think that 3rd part stuff are made by KittyCatS..
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01-15-2017, 01:58 PM (This post was last modified: 01-15-2017 01:59 PM by Malin Sabra.)
Post: #24
RE: Profilers make playing KittyCats more interesting!
(01-15-2017 01:51 PM)Lixy Byron Wrote:  
(01-15-2017 01:25 PM)Malin Sabra Wrote:  It became an issue when the creator of the profile attempted to force people to put a price on the profilers and a ton of people complained about it. Thats why it took years because it wasn't an issue before.
....
... I'm sure she got a barrage of IMs/Notecards about the price forcing/bullying.

I see your point of view, Malin Smile

I honestly thing that prices are amazing but can see also other's point of view and it's clear that sellers, like you, for exapmle, can have different business strategies and the best thing, for me, would be let all decide if put prices or not in the profiler.
This would make a fantastic add-on feature and nobody would feel forced to do nothing.
And i'm sure too that many people confused the profiler as a KittyCatS item instead a 3rd part tool. But people often think that 3rd part stuff are made by KittyCatS..

Exactly. It becomes as issue when you are being forced to abide by a terms of use when it wasn't mentioned upon purchase. I'll just call it bad marketing Smile
As an option its cool, not forced to do.

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01-15-2017, 02:06 PM (This post was last modified: 01-15-2017 02:10 PM by Pancake Littlepaws.)
Post: #25
RE: Profilers make playing KittyCats more interesting!
I am going to get this out right at the start. I am not going to defend either Callie or Rene in this situation. I will only explain my own point of view. The point of view I seen others express.

I start by saying this was a huge disservice to breeders in general. I see a lot of comments on the forums. We didn't have... we did fine with out... etc etc... thats all will and good! The original boxes didn't say if they where male or female! They use to take 20-30mins if I am not mistaken to birth. There was no low prim mode at the beginning. They didn't have toy's. They didn't have a lot of the features we not only rely on but desire and would be genuinely upset if they didn't offer.

The RM profilers for a lot of people where something that existed when we first came to KC and where a part of KC as much as the cats. They where a innovative and nice way to check out what cats where for sale. They become a integrated place for people to look up cats and sale cats outside of the huge markets! These profilers allowed you to skip out of the huge laggy markets or if you had to you could visit the exact cat you wanted.

Right now all thats happened is there removal. Which I am not saying was wrong or was bad are was not justified. Has put a burden on a good number of smaller breeders... and unless your one of the big two markets... you might not have the advertisement or notoriety you once had. Basically there two major markets and a bunch of smaller ones. The two major markets are obviously known by most and must be jumping for joy at whats come to pass. Why because there market shares just went up. There going to make even more money from this situation. There obscene rent cost are now more justifiable. Why cause want traffic rent with us cause those other guys might get 1/4th the traffic we do now.

The other thing that has happened is your now being forced to either advertise non stop... to keep your selfs seen and active or having to rent a expensive cart! The profilers where very fair in this all cats had a equal chance of being shown. There was no favoritism over one breeder are the next. They where shown in a logical order by search results. I know not everyone used that website! But it was still generating enough traffic to justify its existence. The sight most likely got more views then the kitty cats sight did on advertising in a given day.

What does this mean for the market! Reduced market space for the smaller breeder. Obviously the biggest affect this will have is on the mom and pop shops... the two major sims will go on like business like nothing happened other then they no longer have profilers. The mom and pop cattery's will most likely either adopt locations at major sims are leave. They will most likely have viewer cats and produce less. The big major breeders in KC to just make money will most likely benefit the greatest from these changes. They already rent shops.. they rely on multiple locations... and there own advertising bots and what not. They have the most liquid assets to throw around. While it will be a bit of a expense for them at first in the long run. They will make more as the market down turns even further... competition becomes less... cause if your not at a major market your no longer competition.

I am not taking sides on this only pointing out the cause and affect. I don't want anyone CSR's or Kitten to think I feel this was me coming down on there heads. I only wanted to point out what so many are missing. That by going after this system and not having a replacement encase of a outcome like this. KC has created a undue burden on a lot of people and in there own ways manipulated the market with out knowing.

I do hope things recover in the long run and just like the website crash of 2016... and the lost of 2017.. this will become a foot note in the history of KC. The good must always be tempered with the bad and vice vers. Its life!!!
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01-15-2017, 02:35 PM
Post: #26
RE: Profilers make playing KittyCats more interesting!
(01-15-2017 01:49 PM)doubledareme Resident Wrote:  I am saying he is a thief because he is. He is taking things illegally and making profit from it and has been doing it for some time. Read Callie's Letter Lexi.
Also I know him to be a thief because he has disabled my profilers and many others profilers of people whom he did not like because we would not comply to his rules...WHICH by the way were not there nor was the website when this product started out.
As he has created the website and now he has controlled more and more of what people do or do not do because of threats and bullying. Perhaps its ok to some but its not ok to most of us As an auctioneer I have BOTH profilers and both of my profilers were disabled because I refused to use them the way he wanted me to and that was not ok with him. So he harassed me and yelled and screamed at me and when I would not comply he disabled them. No refund...no appology. This is just the beginning of it. I have been auctioning for years and years and I have been to not 1 ...not 2 ...but 3 different sims...that he has harassed the owners so badly when I was there because he hates people he can't control so much that he threatened the owners that their profilers would be disabled and all of them on the sim even the renters if they did not fire me. And I'm also not the only one he did that to. Further more he would NOT list auctions in his auction schedule which caused many long time auctioneers to lose spots they had had for years and for the auction to be taken over primarily by one sim. He has done all this to me and to others I know personally because we would not let him bully us.
FURTHER MORE... This has not just suddenly come to a head. I have personally known about this issue for well over a year now and I am not the only one. I don't know all the details but I was made aware that Callie and KittyCats were dealing with it and as you can see in her letter...if you read it...it didn't go well. This is NOT about whether you paid for the pictures or not this is about a man stealing copy written material that is legally hers to profit from and using this material to make a profit for himself. As for other pictures...most people are not selling them or breaking the law in using them. Many people have access to the logo in the limited fashion KittyCats has released it. Anyone else that is using the material or has used it in the past has had permission. Personal photographs of you kittens is totally legal. But this is not the same thing.
And let me explain this one last thing to you. In order to make those profilers work he must have thousands and thousands of pictures from KittyCats. He did not make these pictures...he STOLE them ..dipped into KittyCats computer and stole them. He did not take every single cat picture you see on these profilers...those images BELONG by COPYRIGHT to KittyCats...which is a registered trade mark.
This is a big deal. It is not just one one level. He took money from hundreds if not thousands of KittyCats clients selling his product by way of using their registered name. He profited for over 3 years off of a stolen product. He has continued to bully and harass and grief many people over this time when they tried to stop him from controlling them. He has stolen from EVER SINGLE ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THE PROFILERS NOW IF HE DOES NOT RETURN THE MONEY. Lets look at that shall we...

lets make this an average of 10 US money. So many people have bought the more expensive version and some currencies are not as on par with american currency so lets just say an average of $10. Lets say he has sold 2000 of these profilers... We have no clue really and these are not his first profilers that he has made..he has done this to other companies...research it. 10 x 2000 = 20,000 Thats just at 2000....i am sure he has sold many many more and the amount adds up to much more. $20,000 us dollars. Now if you add to that the royalties he would have been paying for had he gotten the materials from Callie legally....he made money on that...i can imagine a fair sum, by not having to pay for it. Now lets take that and add in what he makes off his website. He had advertisers on there. He would have made money for every hit to his website. He is not stupid. I don't think that at all he had a brilliant product. But the material for it was obtained illegally and operated illegally and he made a lot of profit on both the website and the product. And essentially stole this money.

Yes my post is assertive. If you are blind to the real world and what is right and wrong and what is just and fair then of course you think I am a bully and Callie is the bad guy. But if you are aware that this is REAL LIFE we are talking about then how can you be ok with what this REAL man did. There are LAWS in the REAL WORLD and in SECOND LIFE about this. We think this is a game. That what we do here has nothing to do with real life. That is false. Rene bullied me so badly...he traumatized me. I have proof. I have witnesses and I am not the only one. He Verbally assaulted me. He Bullied me horribly, He said things about me that are horrible... He bullied and verbally assaulted and hurt OTHERS for being friends with me and he STOLE MY RL money as well...it was just $30 buck us but omg! who does that! . ALL OF THAT my friend is something I can't imagine in my whole life doing to someone else. And I am one of MANY this happened to including Callie from the sounds of it.

If you think this a game and can overlook what he as done because it helps you sell a KittyCat then I think I said the exact right thing to whom it applies to in my previous post.

As for me I am rejoicing this day along with many others that this man is finally going to be gone from our lives. I have heard several people tell me of the anxiety he has caused. People with disabilities flock to kittycats because of how soothing it is.. We do this because some of us are bedridden, some have mental disabilities and some have had much trauma in their lives. There is a huge group of people in the KittyCats community that have this community and nothing else. I personally suffer from anxiety, I have a physical disability that keeps me at home. My friends are here. Rene bullied me so badly last spring ...IN voice...In REAL LIFE...he had a group of his cronys gang up on me on open chat....and in IM's and literally made me so anxious and so traumatized I had to leave SL for months. But i remained in kittycats thanks so much to the cattery online. They have improved it so much rene's profiler is redundant except for the easy sale one might make by jumpers.

Anyway.. I have every right to comment on this and I have a whole other side of the story you obviously have not seen or know about. AGAIN I AM NOT THE ONLY PERSON THIS HAS HAPPENED TO. I have witnesses and proof of every single thing I am saying. Rene has words...and he is good at manipulation....he is a crooked sales man. He can sell ice cubes to inuit and even call them eskimos while doing it. And just so we are clear. What I have said is not defamation of character , libel or slander because every word I am speaking is the provable truth.

Think about that for a while.

You can jump on my head, call me Lexi instead Lixy, use a wrong name and treat me like a stupid, like a silly child that don't understand rules, laws and think to her little box to sell.
For me this is very offensive, bully and aggressive. But i don't care. Really.

The profiles, years ago, when came out, did not had a site. It's true.
Maybe was in his intentions. Since NOW there is/was a site.. no?

I really don't understand when you say that he controlled people. He never controlled me.
And never controlled any of my friends.
And all your problems, between you and him are your business. Not mine.
Because i don't have any possibility to know the truth.
I truth what i see.
And what i see is all this sourness you put in this problem i read is more than you say, i read that it's a personal question..

You are telling that he ripped off here and there and earned money from all of us.

Really. A site i think cost money. More than the money we paid.

Really. The profilers don't need any picture. We don't need any picture.
The Community don't need any picture.

The Community need the site, need the database and need the freedom to run a store in a desolate place without spend ages for advice the cats.
Need the freedom of decide to don't put a cat in auction and come in touch to everyone in the same moment. In a click.

The Community is made from a lot of people. Not only the one you can see in auctions, or in markets, or in Addict's chat. Silent people are a lot. Are the Community.

I am not blind at all, but wat i see it's a war you're fighting for other business than yours.
Or better.. your business for sure, or you would not fight for this.

If the profiler was a thief product should have been blocked from the first day. Not now, when i can think someone has seen a nice opportunity for take advantage, earn more money and other business that i don't see because i'm not a business woman.

. I don't think this is a game, and i know there are laws.
Sure you're not a lawyer. And, repeat, if the problem were the pictures should have been a problem from the first day. And this is the first time i hear you shout at thief..

You say Rene bullied you. I did not see this. And are not my business.

I am not judging Rene Marseille's Man.
I am talking about Rene Marseille's Profiler.

Of course i'm not thinking SL it's just a game.
And i'm not talking about the profiler because helped ME to sell my cats.

I think to the Community. I speak for the Community.

And i'm talking about the profiler.
That helped our Community like NO OTHER THINGS or PEOPLE has EVER DONE until now.

The profiler gave FREEDOM and opened new way to stay in the market to all the little breeders/sellers that, before this, were FORCED to rent/spam/auction etc etc etc.

And the little breeders/sellers, as i said before, are The Community.

About the pictures stuff, Doubledareme, I DO NOT CARE AT ALL.
Are THEIR business.

If is so serious sounds very very strange to me that TODAY became SO SERIOUS.

And about the money earned with the profilers i would say that everyone sold one single cat using the profiler is totally accomplice because earned on that one. And i'm sure everyone already amortized the starting cost of the kit.

We were talking about the product, not Callie's vs Rene. This is too big for us to handle and this are not our business at all. Unless we are all lawyers.
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01-15-2017, 02:57 PM
Post: #27
RE: Profilers make playing KittyCats more interesting!
Hi guys. We appreciate the feedback regarding this issue. We understand people have a lot of different opinions about the profiler and web market, and the creator's decision to shutter them. There are strong opinions on both sides of the fence.

I am going to gently remind everyone reading and participating in this thread to remember our community rules of keeping discussion respectful and taking disagreements to private conversation. Please keep the discussion centered around IDEAS and not PEOPLE. It's fine to talk about your opinions regarding the use of profilers and web-based market directories. However I am going to ask that folks avoid making judgments or leveling criticism at specific people. If you have an issue with a specific person, please take it up with that person privately.

Thanks Smile

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01-15-2017, 03:15 PM
Post: #28
RE: Profilers make playing KittyCats more interesting!
(01-15-2017 02:35 PM)Lixy Byron Wrote:  The Community is made from a lot of people. Not only the one you can see in auctions, or in markets, or in Addict's chat. Silent people are a lot. Are the Community. . .
The profiler gave FREEDOM and opened new way to stay in the market to all the little breeders/sellers that, before this, were FORCED to rent/spam/auction etc etc etc.
...
We were talking about the product, not Callie's vs Rene. This is too big for us to handle and this are not our business at all. Unless we are all lawyers.

Lixy, you make a lot of excellent points as did JenniferShelby in her post. Best to stay focused on the discussion regarding the impact of the loss of the profilers and not on individuals.

We are a community, and for a strong community to thrive we really have to try and stay away from an us and them mentality, rene vs callie, seasoned breeders vs new breeders, large breeders vs small breeders, mall walkers vs profile shoppers. I feel put off by people telling me how I should experience KittycatS. How I should shop, How I should sell. How I should should should assuming I have not tried any of those things. I tend to dabble in it all, but I like the meditative quiet process of breeding cats and the dopamine rush when my cat hits a jack pot Smile I sell so I can afford to continue to breed.

The community is made up of all kinds of people with a common bond. We like our KittyCatS. A place like this is important so we can have open discussions and learn more about the community. It just seems human nature to want to judge, but it's not helpful here. And I really hope our "Community" learns to come together over this instead of being driven apart.

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01-15-2017, 04:08 PM
Post: #29
RE: Profilers make playing KittyCats more interesting!
I try to think of and offer productive solutions when I can, instead of just whining. Here's one that might help my personal inconvenience with the profilers gone-- can there be a well-publicized listing of shops? That might help drive some traffic with everyone resorting to stepping over each other to stay on top of the thread ranking in the advertising forum.
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01-15-2017, 04:10 PM (This post was last modified: 01-15-2017 04:19 PM by doubledareme Resident.)
Post: #30
RE: Profilers make playing KittyCats more interesting!
I apologize Lixy for not getting your name right and if I sounded condescending; that was not my intention.

I think this is a community of people that cares about its family members. If that is the case then we need to keep our eyes out for people who are being harmed by those in the community that are not community centred. I also think that my neighbour is important and I know if it happened to someone else in the community and not to me it would be as alarming as if he had done it to me. That is my truth. I can't force that on anyone else, but bullying, stealing, fraud, and the list goes on, is never ok in my book regardless if it is to me or someone else that is in my community or my neighbourhood.

The points I made about the legality of it are why the profiler is gone but that was Rene not Callie. This was a choice he made. This was not forced on him by KittyCats, and it is explained in the other forum thread by both him and Callie. He chose to not remove the pictures or the prices or comply with what he needed to and instead disable them so that he walked away from the drama that he helped create with the money he made off of the product. We are left without the product or a refund. He could have done it differently.

One thing I know though is that I think it very big of Callie Cline and KittyCats that she allows the use of this, the KittyCats forum, to discuss things that directly affect the welfare of her/their product and the people who use it and the family it represents. I can only say she is doing an amazing job of turning the other cheek right now.

At the end of the day, truth always outs, and justice prevails...whether its karmic or man made. Bad people doing bad things eventually get caught.

I will always support KittyCats in this regard and I don't need to say anything else about it.
So to quote Forrest Gump,
"Thats all I have to say about that."
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