Recessive ranking order for Genesis 4 furs

[CatSoleil Bellecoeur]

(08-17-2014 07:38 AM)Wendi Lavendel Wrote:  ... If anyone has any constructive information, we welcome it, but keep let's keep the insults and accusations to ourselves (or vent to a good friend in private )

Sound good? Good! Because wow, we received some doozies over the weekend and can't wait to share them with everyone!

Love this post, Wendi! Clearly well-written, fair, and ... well, I just gotta love anyone who uses the word doozies!

Thanks to both you and Charles for taking on this task, and doing work that is essential to our KC breeding efforts!

.

[Shamu077 Resident]

(08-17-2014 07:38 AM)Wendi Lavendel Wrote:  For example, if Pia could be proven to be a pure SmokeyIV (SmokeyIV hiding SmokeyIV) then you could prove that SmokeyIV is recessive to DiamondIV... and then, using Tala 01-11's pedigree, you could go on to prove that it was recessive to FlameIV. This would give you the complete order of all the Gen4 furs.

IF Pia is a Starter cat I, its hidden fur must be a non-genesis fur. At least that's what I have always understood - Starters are guaranteed to contain a non-genesis hidden fur. If a starter cat can contain a ~hidden~ genesis fur, they are even a worse buy, compared to buying offspring in the secondary market.

If Pia is a zero-traited offspring, of course it could contain a hidden genesis fur, although a zero-trait offspring is about as rare as twin megas, in my experience.

[Kayleigh McMillan]

(08-17-2014 12:20 PM)Shamu077 Resident Wrote:  ...
If Pia is a zero-traited offspring, of course it could contain a hidden genesis fur, although a zero-trait offspring is about as rare as twin megas, in my experience.

Gosh, I wish my starters were as sweet to me as your's are to you, mine love to pass a head to toe Genesis OS.
I must have a very rare cattery in that sense but sadly not in a positive way ...

[Wendi Lavendel]

(08-17-2014 12:20 PM)Shamu077 Resident Wrote:  

(08-17-2014 07:38 AM)Wendi Lavendel Wrote:  For example, if Pia could be proven to be a pure SmokeyIV (SmokeyIV hiding SmokeyIV) then you could prove that SmokeyIV is recessive to DiamondIV... and then, using Tala 01-11's pedigree, you could go on to prove that it was recessive to FlameIV. This would give you the complete order of all the Gen4 furs.

IF Pia is a Starter cat I, its hidden fur must be a non-genesis fur. At least that's what I have always understood - Starters are guaranteed to contain a non-genesis hidden fur. If a starter cat can contain a ~hidden~ genesis fur, they are even a worse buy, compared to buying offspring in the secondary market.

If Pia is a zero-traited offspring, of course it could contain a hidden genesis fur, although a zero-trait offspring is about as rare as twin megas, in my experience.

Hai Shamu, you're right - starters are guaranteed to hide a non-genesis fur (and also non-gen eyes, non-gen tail, non-gen ears, non-gen whisker colour, and non-gen whisker shape)

If we had some proof of Pia's background that said she was a Starter (which we don't, sadly) that would mean more work was needed: Because Pia 10 is showing Free's shown DiamondIV fur, we wouldn't know if it came about because Free's shown fur went up against Pia's mystery non-gen fur, or if it was because the DiamondIV went up against the SmokeyIV and the SmokeyIV hid behind the DiamondIV. There'd also be no way to tell by examining the rest of the pedigree on that particular page (The Flame could be hiding Pia's shown or hidden, in our example). Since we don't know if the SmokeyIV would have ended up hidden or not, we can't use this to determine the placement of SmokeyIV. Of course, all of this would also be true if we could show for sure that Pia was hiding any non-genesis fur, whether she was a starter or not, but this information is not available; she could just as likely be hiding a genesis fur, for all we know.

I have lots of all-gen offspring - every time the specials come out where you get a special offspring from breeding 2 starters, I am one of the unfortunate who's special offspring have all genesis traits under the costume LOL But many are luckier than me and don't have many all-gen offspring I should be thankful for mine because they provide me with menagerie dollars a lot of the time! Although I would much rather have twin Megas LOL

Regardless, we should never assume anything about a cat's background and always look for concrete proof, no matter how probable our assumptions are. Most of the time the assumptions turn out to be correct anyway, but there have been a number of times when they've been wrong, too.

People base their breeding/pricing decisions on the information in the charts so we want to make sure we don't make any assumptions or guesses, which is why we always ask for more information or additional proofs sometimes.

[Aramis Gontineac]

I just come back and see questions about the prooves. To answer to Wendi LAvendel, here are the hideen furs for the cats she asked for.

Pia is a starter cat, the most recessive fur shown in its descendance is Chateau cat pink and white N1.

Pia 10 has Smokey 4 as hidden fur.

Free, which is also a starter cat, has Abyssinian Ruddy as hidden fur.

Of course i am at your disposal to show any pedigree needed to ensure my statements.

To answer to those who speak about edited pedigrees, i didnt edited anything, only hided owner names for the cats that werent my own property.

Last but not least, Wendi you can contact me any time in SL for further info.

[Athos Joubert]

here comes Pia's Pedigree :



other kittens of Pia have shown genesis furs as dominant.

[VanityTempest Resident]

Here comes the pedigree of Free, which is a starter cat from the 3rd Birthday serie :



the only non genesis furs in his children were Aby Ruddy and Bengal Sorell

[Wendi Lavendel]

Thanks so much for the info Unfortunately this doesn't give us any new info about the placement of Smokey4 in the order of Genesis 4 furs, but if you ever do breed Pia 10 with a non-genesis fur and get a Smokey4 back, please do let us know! Thanks, again!

[Aramis Gontineac]

Hello Wendi, to answer you, yes i have a child of Pia 10 showing Smokey 4.
Here it is :

[Tad Carlucci]

Perfect. This proves your OP is correct in the order of all five Genesis IV furs.