DOn't Say HIDE!?!

[Hathor Xaris]

(03-21-2014 12:29 AM)Nocshadue Balbozar Wrote:  I'm not sure if your last reply was referring to my post, but I'll try to answer what I think your question is as best as I can. I think what you are asking is this "If I have a kitten I want to sell, and it's not showing FUR A, but one of it's parents DOES show FUR A, how do I label it?" In that case, I personally feel it is safe to say that it hides FUR A or better, assuming that FUR A is recessive to the fur that is showing on the kitten.

I know it gets confusing, and good for you for trying to be extra careful in labeling your cats you want to sell.

So let's take a look at a bengal black example. Bengal Black is dominant to Foxie Salt & Pepper and I have a few that show Bengal Black and hide the Foxie Salt & Pepper. When I breed them together..two kities showing bengal black, now and then I'll get a kitteh showing the foxie salt & pepper. That kitten that shows the foxie salt & pepper CANNOT hide the bengal black because it's showing the more recessive fur.

If I took one of my bengal blacks that is hiding the foxie salt & pepper and put it with a nice bali cream and I got a bali cream kitten, then what? Well, one way to go would be to say "COULD" hide bengal black or... "hides bengal black or foxie salt & pepper" or.. "hides bengal black or better" or.. "bengal black mom or dad". See I can't be sure it hides bengal black since I can't tell without breeding it out myself whether my bengal black passed the shown or hidden fur.

Personally, I just turn on the pedigree links on my boxes and label them for what they show usually.

"if it is dominant in the ped it will pass still if paired with more of the same???"

I'm not sure what you're asking here, but I'll reiterate that when you breed two cats, they each pass on 1 trait per slot. Let's use shades as an example. You have a boy showing twinkle and in his pedigree, parents both show glitter, grandparents show twinkle and glitter. Lets say you have his sister too and are going to breed them together so her pedigree is the same. So you breed them and get a kitten showing twinkle. Even though there is glitter in the pedigree, that kitten cannot hide glitter because twinkle is more recessive and that's what the kitten is showing.

Now..here's where it gets confusing.. if you took that kitten showing twinkle and mated it with a cat that is showing or hiding glitter...you could make a kitten with glitter, because the twinkle is more recessive it would let the glitter show. But the cat showing twinkle, has no glitter in it, even though it's in it's pedigree..what shade if any will show in kittens the twinkle cat makes will depend on what it's partnered with. If you put the twinkle cat with a partner showing flash shade, the twinkle would show (assuming the twinkle cat doesn't have a more recessive shade lurking), it's all about what is recessive to what.

So the fact that the twinkle cat has glitter in it's pedigree has nothing to do with it passing glitter. It allows glitter to show if bred with a glitter cat because twinkle is the more recessive shade. If that cat's grandparents has shown twinkle and illume, the twinkle cat would still allow glitter to show on it's offspring.

I really hope that made some kind of sense. It's late and now my brain is fried. But there are some really awsome people that contribute to the forum here who can maybe say it better =o)

Hope I helped some.

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(03-21-2014 01:40 PM)Hathor Xaris Wrote:  

(03-21-2014 12:29 AM)Nocshadue Balbozar Wrote:  I'm not sure if your last reply was referring to my post, but I'll try to answer what I think your question is as best as I can. I think what you are asking is this "If I have a kitten I want to sell, and it's not showing FUR A, but one of it's parents DOES show FUR A, how do I label it?" In that case, I personally feel it is safe to say that it hides FUR A or better, assuming that FUR A is recessive to the fur that is showing on the kitten.

I know it gets confusing, and good for you for trying to be extra careful in labeling your cats you want to sell.

So let's take a look at a bengal black example. Bengal Black is dominant to Foxie Salt & Pepper and I have a few that show Bengal Black and hide the Foxie Salt & Pepper. When I breed them together..two kities showing bengal black, now and then I'll get a kitteh showing the foxie salt & pepper. That kitten that shows the foxie salt & pepper CANNOT hide the bengal black because it's showing the more recessive fur.

If I took one of my bengal blacks that is hiding the foxie salt & pepper and put it with a nice bali cream and I got a bali cream kitten, then what? Well, one way to go would be to say "COULD" hide bengal black or... "hides bengal black or foxie salt & pepper" or.. "hides bengal black or better" or.. "bengal black mom or dad". See I can't be sure it hides bengal black since I can't tell without breeding it out myself whether my bengal black passed the shown or hidden fur.

Personally, I just turn on the pedigree links on my boxes and label them for what they show usually.

"if it is dominant in the ped it will pass still if paired with more of the same???"

I'm not sure what you're asking here, but I'll reiterate that when you breed two cats, they each pass on 1 trait per slot. Let's use shades as an example. You have a boy showing twinkle and in his pedigree, parents both show glitter, grandparents show twinkle and glitter. Lets say you have his sister too and are going to breed them together so her pedigree is the same. So you breed them and get a kitten showing twinkle. Even though there is glitter in the pedigree, that kitten cannot hide glitter because twinkle is more recessive and that's what the kitten is showing.

Now..here's where it gets confusing.. if you took that kitten showing twinkle and mated it with a cat that is showing or hiding glitter...you could make a kitten with glitter, because the twinkle is more recessive it would let the glitter show. But the cat showing twinkle, has no glitter in it, even though it's in it's pedigree..what shade if any will show in kittens the twinkle cat makes will depend on what it's partnered with. If you put the twinkle cat with a partner showing flash shade, the twinkle would show (assuming the twinkle cat doesn't have a more recessive shade lurking), it's all about what is recessive to what.

So the fact that the twinkle cat has glitter in it's pedigree has nothing to do with it passing glitter. It allows glitter to show if bred with a glitter cat because twinkle is the more recessive shade. If that cat's grandparents has shown twinkle and illume, the twinkle cat would still allow glitter to show on it's offspring.

I really hope that made some kind of sense. It's late and now my brain is fried. But there are some really awsome people that contribute to the forum here who can maybe say it better =o)

Hope I helped some.

Thank you so much for that your answer definitely makes sense, i think a lot my confusion actually merely stems from the idea that i just way over think things sometimes, i have quite a bit of knowledge of RL genetics and i think i was applying a little "too" much of that to my kittycats breeding, apart from mendela's law kittycats breeding is not "exactly" as RL ( else there'd be one hell of a programmer out there who should prob be busy mapping the human genome instead )it is much more simple which is a big relief to me, RL genetics is waaay more complicated than this , it makes this look easy!! I totally am unconfused now i believe about kittycats breeding, still a little confused about RL genetics on many levels but at least i know now i don't have to apply every little rule to kittycats just the basics.

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i think this is also a thing that misleads newbies to overthink it cuz of rl the possibilities r slightly different, in kittycats it very straightforward actually with the fact you only have 2 slots to toss up that narrows it down to what you can and cannot breed so much easier and doesn't leave it quite so much up to astronomical mathematical chance like rl does when your dealing with millions of things to shuffle, so the algorithms in kittycats r way simpler to follow and so much easier to control

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and gives us as breeder quite the uperhand in controlling what comes out in RL we dont get that luxury as commonly

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so if new ppl consider this simplicity maybe it will demystify that you can't pass every trait in a ped

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its like either one or the other..hehe so simple

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I would like to formally ask the Kittycats community to please go easy one us newbies, please be genttile with us, ecspescially if you approach us while were in the middle of fixing up bidboards, pleas don't scare off the newbies by getting into arguments with them during tense moments while they might in the middle of trying to make a sale so they can survive or stay in business feed their cats pay their rent try and get a handle on things its a little stressful at first im sure you all remember, perhaps its best to approach them softly and as passively as possible maybe its best to if you find a confused person to simply refer them to something you think they might not have seen yet instead of assuming they know nothing, they may not actually be beginners but intermediate novices like myself and just simply need more instructing or deconfused, its hard to approach them without makin g them feel attacked or insulted when there under this much pressure, i totally understand that, please just try and put yourself in their place before you approach them, try to love and care for them and don't come off as being competitive by having no patience fo their ignorance or insinuating that they know nothing or are just trying to fool people so they can make a dollar, not every one is a scam artist abeit teher r quite a few out there, just try to recognize someone before you label them at all is all i mean dont scare off the newbies, its embarrasing enough to find that your not in the info loop to add extra discomfort to get told in public how wrong you are, all everyone wants is to be loved and feel welcome and accepted into this amazing family. so gentile would be the way to go with newbies, forward them forum links like this one, avoid arguing at allor trying to explain inworld to a complete stranger how wrong they are, and i think they will be fine and not get angry or make confrontation or snap at you, and think your just jealous or get the wrong idea why your approaching them if they happen to be confused. I think they will be quite grateful and what comes around goes around lets all share positivity if we can Thank you all so much for reading!

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the more ppl who join our community the bigger and better our economy. what hurts 1 person hurts evryone

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ooh and vice versa

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I just thought of this little poem

"Lets not be snarky snobby or snide, lets be happy , positive, and full of pride,
because we are all such special wonderful spirits inside,
Instead surrender & be humble because love & happiness is something...
one must never...hide."