So Charles and I have spent last night and most of today analysing this post plus several others, along with whatever old proofs we could find in the archives and have determined what's what. Here's a summary of what we're posting here, in case you'd like to jump to a specific section:
Affected Furs and New Placements
Action Items
How You Can Help
Affected Furs and New Placements
These are the furs that are affected by this issue:
Abyssinian Ruddy
Cream & White Tabby
Snowshoe Chocolate
Ocicat Black
The first 3 of those furs were proven before we were chart managers, so there's very little in terms of records to show us what was proven and how. We did find a number of recent proofs of other furs that use the affected furs as a reference point. We reviewed them all and determined which ones are still valid (most of them) and were able to use those as reference points to determine where the affected furs can be placed in the charts.
We've been able to determine the following, although some of this is a bit loose:
Ocicat Black's placement was based on Abyssinian Ruddy, so we have to backtrack and reset Ocicat Black to be recessive to Foxie Auburn.
- this post shows Ocicat Black recessive to Foxie Aburn: https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=23127
Abyssinian Ruddy can be proven to be dominant to Abyssinian Creme.
- this post shows Abyssinian Ruddy is dominant to Abyssinian Creme: https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=17673
- also, this current post that contains this reply clearly shows that Abyssinian Ruddy was drawn out from behind the Cream & White Tabby by the Foxie Blondie
- undocumented proofs that were referred to in various other forum posts indicated that Abyssinian Ruddy is recessive to Ocicat Black, so we're going to go with that until we see something to the contrary. That would make Abyssinian Ruddy recessive to Foxie Auburn and Ocicat Black dominant to Abyssinian Creme.
Cream & White Tabby, and
Snowshoe Chocolate are old, original furs, so we are hoping that they were placed far enough in the past that they are accurate in relation to the other older, original furs.
We did find a couple of Snowshoe Chocolate proofs from a few years ago that have it dominant to Chateau Cocoa & White No.2, and one more recent proof for Abyssinian Creme being recessive to Snowshoe Chocolate.
We also can confirm that Snowshoe Chocolate is recessive to American Shorthair Brown & White Patch:
https://gyazo.com/75fd04447ae86a75c4b7fda4e8797095
We couldn't find any record of Cream & White Tabby proofs, but did find several proofs that used Cream & White Tabby as a reference point:
- Cream & White Tabby is definitely dominant to Tawny Tabby:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-iba6e...sp=sharing
- Cream & White Tabby is recessive to Siamese Lilac:
https://gyazo.com/daed93ce4d77550351657ad4288cb0fb (Drew hides CW Tab) and
https://gyazo.com/d05357e07ea95d6be7b8d93f975341c8 (Siamese Lilac)
Action Items
We want to focus more on Abyssinian Ruddy and Ocicat Black because the Cream & White Tabby and Snowshoe Chocolate were placed a long time ago and are likely in the right spots in relation to the other older furs:
Piority #1:
Abyssinian Ruddy vs. Tawny Tabby is definitely a top priority, because if Ruddy is dominant to the Tawny, we can establish Foxie Auburn > Oci Black > Ruddy > Tawny Tabby as a locked in sequence. Then we only have Snowshoe Chocolate and Cream & White Tabby to worry about.
Priority #2: Any of the following:
Snowshoe Choc vs. Foxie Auburn
Snowshoe Choc vs. Cream & White Tabby
Oci Black vs. Cream & White Tabby
If we can confirm those, that should give us a good framework. If they can fall into a certain order, it could fix everything fairly quickly.
Any confirmation of Abyssinian Ruddy and Ocicat Black would be welcome, just to be on the safe side.
The charts will be updated with a range for Abyssinian Ruddy and Ocicat Black:
Abyssinian Ruddy: now between Foxie Auburn/Ocicat Black and Abyssinian Creme.
Ocicat Black: now between Foxie Auburn and Abyssinian Ruddy/Abyssinian Creme.
We are also going to pull out
Snowshoe Chocolate and Cream & White Tabby and put them on the side column until we can confirm that they're where they should be.
It is advised that you don't use any of those furs when proving other furs' placement.
How You Can Help
We are looking for people who are interested in helping us out with these action items, specifically:
- people willing to search their cattery/inventory/etc for old proofs they might have regarding any of the furs mentioned. Maybe you sent something in a long time ago to another chart manager? Maybe you've got some current cats with these furs that can help us with these proofs? Keep an eye out when you're shopping or at auctions for cats with these furs, too! Send your proofs through the regular channels (full perm pedigree image(s) sent to SagaKitty Resident or screen shots emailed to SagaKittySL@gmail.com) or you can post them in reply to this thread.
- people willing to test any of the furs mentioned, particuarly the priority action items
- people willing to donate boxes that are showing any of the affected furs, or that have clear proof that boxes are hiding affected furs (they don't have to be nice boxes, give us your duds; you can arrange to get your live kitty back when it's no longer needed, if you wish) We've already set aside some old boxes to donate, but more are always welcome.
- people willing to donate kibble/milk to help those who want to do proofs but can't provide kibble/milk (see NOTE below)
To help out in any way, contact any or all of the following
Bree Ann (brunabug.nightfire)
Kayla Woodrunner (kayla.woodrunner)
Charles Courtois-Oh (charles.courtois)
WendiKitteh (wendi.lavendel)
NOTE: If you would like to help prove stuff but don't have the space/prims/food/milk, we can help. Contact the people mentioned above for more information.
If you would like to help in any other way, please contact any of the people mentioned above.
