All Auctions Schedule

[Charlotte Calael]

I'm very disappointed in the kittyCats Community.
Kittycats staff always work on keeping us together, helping others, being respectful and wants us to be a family. They have rules about how to treat other in Group chat and how to behave, and they want us to be a Community, that helps and cares for each other. And I'm very happy about this. Without these rules it would look even darker then it already is.

I'm very disappointed in the community, not in kittycats staff, they do a good job. The sad things breeders, Sellers even auctioneers and Sim owners treat others with no respect (not all ofcurse). I stopped enjoying to breed kittycats cause of all the junk some people in this community bring up on each other, and i gave up hope for a while. It does get better at time but then the shit just come back. The lies, the drama and all disrespect to others. People in SL live behind a wall and don't treat others like human beings with feelings. I'm sick of it, but there is nothing to be done. To many people even in kittycats community that are terrible people, who don't care how they treat others. The last time i got this upset was when people gave me names even and bad reputation.
I don't understand why kittycats have a rating system on kittycats.biz, cause its just away to bully people. I'm not the only one that feels like this, there many people who are my friends that take a lot of crap from other people in this Community, and no one stands up for them. And the people that harass you get go free without a warning or any feeling of regret or shame over the actions. The rating system does on kittycats does not work. When its people acting on reputation with no proof.
If kittycats want a rating system they should rate the breeders them-self after actions they can prove. And it should be away to be able to prove your innocents. I would like the rating system if it actually helped us from scammers and bad people.But its not, as it is now, but it seems its now just a tool to bully people.

Then the drama about the Auction times. Its just terrible how much figth in the community about the time. There is no time for everyone, we only have 24 hours a day. We started with the http://kittycatauctions.blogspot.com, and then the Nacht hold track of the times and people honored everyones auction times, even back then it was to many auction times. But the Community decided to make new auction list that is now more well known "All auctions Schedule" https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtYTmqsi0Z0tdE5xMWRlczluX0c0alBDT2hSRldvN3c#gid=0. for the first months the owner was really great at updating it and most people agree it was easier to look at this new one, i guess thats the reasons this one is the more used one. The thing is it was well known before that you respect others auction times and don't overlap auction-slots. but now it seems like no one care.

"You may notice that as of the first week of October, some auction houses have chosen to overlap their added dates with previously established auction times. This is not a calendar mistake on the part of the Nachts, but rather a conscious decision by those auctioneers. If you have questions, please direct them to the auctioneers themselves." This is written on the "old" Auction time schedule. It started happening years ago, but its just getting worse.

I'm not sure what to say really. I pity the new Sims opening up that does not get any auction time at all cause some Sim have 15 auctions a week. And a new Sim don't stand a chance, and thats a bit unfair also from their Point of view. But why have a schedule which says ""All times are START times only. These are not blocks of time. Please take that into consideration when you want to be added to the list" But its obvious some people in this kittycats Community don't consider others and respect it. The rule to respect others time was not invented by me, though i Think its decent to respect it. Its obvious why the Community has this rule. Cause you cant be at two auctions at same time, and if you ever tried being a auctioneer you know its allot of work and its hard to get both the seller and the Right buyer to the auction. And as a auctioneer its really sad to say "Future Sale" and we feel bad for the person who does not get their cat sold. Having double auctions makes it more harder. But as it is people don't respect others auctions time. I wish people did but they don't care. Even if you Contact the people taking same auction time slot as you asking them to change they don't care and just mute you, No respect at all. But why have that rule if you don't follow it.
But then at same time should some Sim have 15 auction slots a week and some Sims not allowed to have any cause the schedule is already overfilled? Like for me for example i only have one auctioneer at my Sim Vygg and she only have one slot that we had for years 2:30pm and then another market as to try squeeze in between us and the 4pm auction, even though that Sim has already so many auction times (15 a week) and we only have 1 that we had for years (our market is even older). We started with 3pm but that was to late for us, then we tried to change to 2pm but then the 1pm auction did not get enough time so we changed it to 2:30pm and we end at 4pm or some times at 3:30pm. Even though we have 2:30pm Another auctioneer wants to start at 3pm. We reminded the new auctioneer we had 2:30pm but no response happen. When we where new we where respectful of other peoples auction times and it was already full so we had to take was left and we respected that. So what do you Think is the Community falling apart? Should we have a action schedule? Should we still have a rule about not double booking in the schedule? And how will that affect new breeders? What do you think? And what can we do to make the "kittycats experience" better? Leave a comment below.

[Ivy Norsk]

There was another thread like this one earlier in the year. I saw it, but didn't respond because it was already running to several pages before I saw it. I'm not in any particular camp, I'm not an auctioneer. I do think auctions are tremendous fun and attend them when I have time and lindens.

I think there are 3 things that are true, all of which are factors that need to be kept in balance. Please read all three before screaming. :

1) Adults do not ask other adults (total strangers at that) for permission to engage in hobby activities that they enjoy; they just do it according to their own schedules.

2) Arts Councils in cities DO coordinate schedules so that the Opera and the Ballet and Symphonies are not running major performances on the same nights. Even so, there is inevitable overlap, and all theatre groups have performances on Fri. Sat, and often Sunday in direct competition with other theatre groups. They may talk to each other to minimize the blow and stagger openings, but ultimately, there's more than one thing running at any given time.

3) Warner Brothers and Disney and the other major movie studios DO look carefully at what the others are doing for release weekends for summer blockbusters more than a year in advance. They do not ask for permission. But they do craft opening strategies.

The fact that so many auctions have popped up suggests that people believe that the community can support and needs that many auctions. Either that, or it may be that more people just want to try their hands at being auctioneers. One would have to look at attendance and whether the cats get bought (a small attendance may just be the cat-sellers and not indicative of a truly healthy market). I don't have the data. Others who attend a lot of auctions will have a better idea of the actual state of play.

Charlotte asks if the community is falling apart. My first reaction to that is to look for the forum numbers... I think this forum has something like 20,000 members or something insanely high like that (correct me if I'm wrong). That's not a cohesive community, nor are all those people active forum members. But that is a very large number of people who need to be encouraged and mobilized to attend auctions at the times which are convenient for them.

[Wendi Lavendel]

For auctions, I think people generally will go to whatever fits into their time zones or times of availability in SL. I know for myself, if I'm available for overlapping auctions, I'll look at the line-ups and decide based on that (and sometimes will tp back and forth if there are cats at different auctions at the time time that I'm interested in). If I prefer to stay at one auction and not another, I arrange a proxy bidder. I think a lot of others do the same thing. I know auctioneers would rather have the avatars at their own auctions but the sellers are happy to have their cats sell and I don't think it matters to most of them if the person doing the buying is at a different auction and bidding by proxy (and people include a tip for the proxy and the auctioneer so it's not like the auctioneer doesn't get anything out of it, too).

Anyway, as Ivy said, if there are so many auctions perhaps that's because there is a demand within the community. Auctions generally don't last when no one is showing up and it seems a waste of time and resources to hold one just to push out another if no one is attending (no buyers, and the sellers will quickly find another auction). I think the issue of overlapping auctions is exactly what YOU said: that there's only 24 hours in a day, and in that 24 hours there are only so many blocks of time when people of different time zones are in SL and not at work, asleep, etc. Eventually things are going to overlap. I don't think this means the community is full of disrespectful people or falling apart at all, I think it means that the community is growing and there's a demand.

Overlapping auctions might even be good for the community: auctioneers will do more interesting things and try to bring in better cats to attract more patrons, and this seems like a good thing for buyers and sellers alike. I love seeing how creative some of these auctioneers can be!

[Priestess Firanelli]

Auctions come and go but the good ones remains. I see this as a sign that the community is expanding or at least try to expand. Some will not last and thats fine. It will regulate itself.

The maintainer of the list is doing a fantastic job. Start time only? I think we should be greatful that someone wants to do all this work for nothing on an almost daily basis. The maintainer is not a maintainer of any rules that controls how people are handling the fact that more auctions and sims are joining. Neither making sure that people don't overextend their time slot. No one is set to control anyone here. It's just a list that tells us where the auctions are taking place. The ones that wants to join the list just need to write a nc to the maintainer and voilà…you will be added. What a great service!

I look at that schedule every day. Lets try to be thankful of what we have. Some of the old time slots have been occupied by auctions no one or very few people ever visits.. or have been on hold. Why would that be more fair to let them continue to have their slot exclusive than to let more active and new auctions use that time as well? (It makes sence that the "on hold slots" are no longer on the list). If there are not enough time for everyone, how can we ever solve that without the autions overlapping? I think this tells us that KittyCats are growing from a club where everyone knew each other into a bigger market. Exciting!

[anna Acanthus]

(09-02-2014 11:30 AM)Priestess Firanelli Wrote:  I think this tells us that KittyCats are growing from a club where everyone knew each other into a bigger market. Exciting!

I must say i found it far more exciting when KittyCatS was a club where everyone knew each other, or at least i could recognize most of the names i saw.

Apart from that i very rarely bother with auctions but you have some very good points there Priestess, as do Ivey and Wendi

[Kayleigh McMillan]

I always feel a little akward when I enter an almost empty auction as possibly interested person or just boobytrapped by me innocently walking somewhere where suddenly arose an auction in front of my eyes.
If there are many kitties people don't bid on I almost wanted I could disappear via a black hole through the floor out of feeling highly uncomfortable.
Since this is no option in SL and "the sorry I crashed" option is getting old I end up with a body full of unwanted kitties which are most of the time very good as well.
But hey!, I am the one who needs to feed them >..< as Anna I avoid auctions as well.
Lately I am to weak when it comes to painful moments.

[doubledareme Resident]

(09-01-2014 01:28 PM)Charlotte Calael Wrote:  [color=#000000]I'm very disappointed in the kittyCats Community.

1. I think its very unwise to lump everyone together into one pot even if they all share a common passion. There is every reason to believe there are wonderful, loving kitty cat people in ever corner of SL. The problem with addressing this to the community is that this "community" is not really a community. We have a very large number of people who find their own niche within the COMMUNITIES of kittyCats people. Each sim, each market, each auction is in itself a community. The greater conglomerate of people are people who share a common interest.

2. In any competitive market there will be overlaps of many different things. ie. In music, many bands with play at the same time in one city. There are many italian restaurants in my city open at the same hours. The idea of there never being an overlap in auctions is not reality. This is a market that is growing constantly. There will be in the next years more and more and more sims (we sincerely hope) and there will be many auctions and auctioneers coming and going during that time too. So to expect one week to accommodate every auctioneer and sim who are involved with KittyCats is kinda fruitless. Yes I agree with people being fair and respectful which brings me to my 3rd point.

3. There is no use discussing this in a forum. I propose that all auctioneers and sim/market owners have a meeting of the minds to see if we can resolve the current issue or at least come to an understanding or even an agreement to disagree...as adults with a common goal. There could be some give and take in all of this ...some agreement to chill and relax and let the market grow...some decision to limit or dole out auction times fairly...or simply to just try to get along and deal with the growth of the auctions and markets. But surely we could at least open a discussion.

4. Please remember there are people on the other end of avatars. Not everyone is going to agree or get along or have the same tastes or opinions. This is reality in RL as it is in SL. The one common goal or passion we share is that we love the KittyCats we breed and sell and collect and adore. The rest of it is hit or miss depending on who you are and who you meet. Most people have good minds and reasonable understanding of manners. We just need to exercise a measure of thoughtfulness when we deal with each of our communities AND the communities of others.

5. At the end of the day the only way around this issue of the auctions is to go through it, so again I suggest a meeting of the minds...the powers that be... the people who are at the core of the situation...market/sim owners and auctioneers....and lets not take it out on the entire group of kitty cats communities that we represent because we are hurt or angry or disappointed. There is a relatively small group of people who own markets and who run auctions for KittyCats so this doesn't seem too much to ask for. Perhaps there needs to be a committee?... but at least as I said an open discussion.

For us to move forward together we must at least find some common ground.

Thats my two cents.

Dei

[fabioazevedo Oh]

We can not condemn comundidade. This is a problem for the secondary market. Well, it's not a problem, this is part of the game. This is business.

So know the difference between "community" and "Market".
Community is a hobby, people and their cats.
Market is everything that involves money and sales.

If an island can have 15 auctions, congratulations to this island, and its owner / manager, who was able to get together many auctioneers, and visitors.
Any new island, should know this, and can not think that everything will be easy, or it will be freely given, or that the older islands, will say to the new island, "You're welcome. 'Really your thoughts are, "close this island, and not interfere with us."

But, looking at the demand side, "Anyone going on the auction you would like it." This is the maximum rule.

It seems that everyone agrees that the secondary market, grew, and the demand for slots is large, and there is nothing to do unless the overlay.

Talk to an auction starts at 10am, another, 10:30 am, another, 11am, all 3 are overlapping, that is equal to 2 auctions at 10am.

It is stated: "Overlay is welcome, and the market receives it with open arms." And every auctioneer must improve its own auction.

Only, 'Auctioneers old' and 'old islands', will mutter the way, but over time they must accept the fact that they are not alone, and who has a good auction, always have a good auction even with overlapping.

You can partner with other islands, not to have overlapping hours between partners. But to think that all the islands will respect a covenant of good neighborhood, is the same that believe in elves.

And, let's be honest, the Secondary Market, there are many divisions, clearly stated, and never, we have a complete union. I also fight for my place in the sun.

[Brunabug Nightfire]

I feel I need to speak in behalf of the All Auctions Schedule mentioned in this post. I am the updater of this schedule.

The community did not decide to make up a NEW auction list. The list you are referring to Charlette "All Auctions Schedule" was started by staff at Kitty Kottage sim 3 yrs ago. The original creator HellCat created this list and it was posted on the sim and on the google spread sheet you mentioned. Not sure if many of you older breeders remember the Kitty Kottage Sim but they were known for making KittyCats a community and not a single sim. They openly posted about other auctions that were taking place even if they were not on their own sim. I had the opportunity to continue the updates of this list when HellCat left in April 2013. Sadly Kitty Kottage sim closed last April 2014, but I asked the sim owner if I could continue updating the All Auction Schedule even though the sim closed. She agreed that was a good idea. Now remember this list has been around before I even started breeding 3 yrs ago. It is nothing new. It was just something that had been created for the members of Kitty Kottage and hopefully the whole KittyCats Community.

I have tried really hard to maintain this auction list. I take it very seriously and I try to update it as often as I can. There are times I have to log on daily to make updates. I can't speak for the other past lists you mentioned Charlette but when I started breeding 3 yrs ago the only auction list that was up to date pretty much was the one at Kitty Kottage. So when I took this project on- to continue it - I felt it was my duty to make sure it was updated and to take it seriously. I think that the fact that I have taken this list very seriously, of it being current and up to date, it has shed light on the fact that certain sims have a lot more auctions. I think in the past it was just the same...some sims had more but the community didn't know much about what the other sims were doing. They didn't see all the auctions happening other places. Maybe they did, but it was not so much in your face...or accessible to find out. The All Auctions Schedule is current so it is easy to see where the other auctions are happening.

I want to remind everyone this list was always and will always just be a list. I have no authority to deny anyone access to have their auctions at certain times. I am pretty sure I don't want that power and NO one in this community will want any "one" person to have that power. If anyone contacts me with a Notecard stating that they are an auctioneer or a sim owner and they want me to advertise their auctions on the list I will add them, even if there is another auction taking place at that same time. I have on occation mentioned that there was another auction going on at the same time, and that it might be difficult to get buyers to their auction. But I have never said I will not post it. Once again this list was and will always be only a LIST. Not a means to say a certain time slot is always for this particular auctioneer or sim. The auctions have always been a FREEMARKET.

I have been around to several auctions...and I will say (I am sure it will come across as rude and snobbish) I have seen some good auctioneers and some not so good auctioneers. Not everyone is cut out to be an auctioneer. And maybe this will seem cut throat, but I will bet that if two auctions are happening at the same time the one with the better auctioneer (more educated..and takes the time to research what is hiding and showing on a kitty they are selling for someone- instead of just tping in at the last min...to grab notecards) will be the auction that will get more buyers to it. And yes, I do know that sometimes it is a popularity contest. Some auctioneers have more friends they tp in..but I would have to state that over time, even if that auctioneer has lots of friends and does mass tp's...to get everyone there at their auction, that the only way they will get those buyers to STAY and BUY is if that auctioneer knows what they are talking about when they sell EACH and EVERYONE of those kitties on the panels.

Maybe the community needs to decide if they want someone to manage the number of auctions each sim is allowed to have and times. Make the auctions Regulated. I will not be doing that, and I am sure that the majority of the community would not like that. I see one possible and unpleasant outcome if the auctions were regulated. Uneducated Auctioneers will be allowed to continue week after week to flounder and misdirecting buyers with false or misguided information, because they themselves don't know the truth, about the kitties they are auctioning. The Free Choice of picking auctions you want to attend will not be there because you will be locked into a certain auctioneer who might not be qualified to auction kitties. Those auctioneers are just like some stranger walking up to any kitty at a store and telling the passersby that this is a great kitty. But not explaining why. I know that I would much rather have many opportunities to attend auctions with well-educated auctioneers. And again, maybe I am wrong...but I have never known auction times to be exclusive. Yes I agree we need to be respectful of other auctions already taking place, but at the same time I feel that anyone should have the opportunity to try to auction and see if they can be a great auctioneer too.

If you are a new sim...and you have an auction taking place, you pick the time that works for you and auction your heart out. Let your friends know you are having an auction, post on the forums, post in groups, network. Don't let the fact that other sims have several auctions taking place detour you from having your own at the same time. The more educated auctioneer will always win out every time. And NEVER give up if you know you are a good auctioneer. The word will get out (good or bad) if you are.

Charlette, your sim has only one auction a week (for now- does not mean you can't add more), and I know for a fact that Ragdoll brings in quite a few buyers to her auctions. I would also like to point out that Nacht has only one auction a week. They also bring in a lot of sellers and buyers to that one day a week auction. Please remember, that it is the QUALITY of the auctions taking place not the Quantity.

[veronika Darkwatch]

Well Said Brunabug, very well said.