KittyCatS Love & Frustration

[999ShadowCat999 Resident]

(01-21-2018 06:01 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote:  Its the breeders using only Renes that I feel sorry for. As more and more of us use Torgons profilers exclusively we will naturally search there first for our purchases maybe only moving to look at Renes site if we can't find what we want.
In the past knowing some people use both I have started on Torgons and then moved to look at RMs if I can't find what I want but this was rare when looking for boxes. I do however buy a lot of live cats and when the Too Adorable love shack used RMs I did of course use the site if I was looking for something specific to save time, still browse the actual tables if I'm not sure what I want as a pretty cat will always grab me. Anyway with TA returning to Torgons and most of the dual users switching to Torgons after being harrassed I worry that breeders using Renes exclusively may suffer, so although I hate saying this we shouldn't forget that those people are victims too and its not their fault he behaves in this manner so we should still use the RMs market to see and buy those kitties rather than boycotting and hurting innocent members of our community.

I was that someone who said, to never use Rene´s website again
I wrote: " I will only use Torgons. this is my personal decision, I will never force others to do the same..."
for me it is the right thing to not support a person who acts like a dictator towards his customers. sure this might affect people who still use his products, for whatever reason, but hey, you have to start somewhere to make a change, to wake up people and let them see what is wrong.
just my humble opinion

[Arwen Swordthain]

Illuminatras ban does seem indicate he is at least reading what is written here and clearly not learning anything.
Shadowcat, I didn't want to single you out as I am sure many others feel as you do and thats fine, I just wanted to be sure we weren't adversely affecting others in our community that may still be being bullied by him, as was pointed out sheer number of views versus number of people actually posting does mean this thread is getting a lot of attention and thats great, change for the better is a slow and gradual thing but it is happening. Its so great to finally have a thread where we can talk about this calmly without fear of getting jumped on for expressing our opinions. There is no right or wrong we can all only do what we feel is best
I truly believe that over time there will no longer be a place for RMs Profiler in our community but it won't happen overnight.

[MitsuruKirijo06 Resident]

I search Torgon first but since so many still use the RM and its got more older cats I search it too. If I want a particular trait or cat and I can't find it on one market I will search the other one. I hate the way the RM search works. The problem is each time I click X on a keyword it kicks me back to the beginning and I have to scroll again. On the other hand I LOVE how the RM only shows particular traits in search if they are for sale. Torgon just lists all traits regardless of stuff being sold.

[Tad Carlucci]

What I find amazing is his web site claims an increasing number of cats. It's up to 11508, now. But when you total the cats actually listed the numbers are dropping.

At this point, nearly 29% of the cat's he claims (3287 out of 11508) are not actually listed. It was only 2008 five days ago,

I did verify that the cats shown matches the total of the columns. So those extra 3287 cats are pure vapor.

I'm thinking he's counting the number of cats which he's banned. So his false claims will continue to increase as his actual numbers drop both as he bans more people, and as those who he's not yet harassed continue to present new cats to his system.

[Fuyutsuki Resident]

I never had issues with Torgon, nor has he ever mentioned anything about choosing one or the other as far as profilers go. Rene, on the other hand, I have had muted and stopped using his profilers for nearly a year or more at this point. Sorry, I don't like people in my ims because a cat sold overnight and he checked to see if a cat was still there, and there was none. His behavior has been less than customer friendly and I have too much going on rl to deal with his petty nonsense. I speak from my own experience and chose mute him because I do not have the energy for a grown adult acting like a toddler. If you're an adult act like it, this isn't high school. Who has time for petty drama?

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Also, I will say this, that kind of behavior is chasing people away from kitties. It takes the fun out of breeding when you end up when some poor excuse for an adult gets in your ims and harasses you. Imagine being a new breeder and getting ims like that in the beginning, would you want to continue on if that is what is to be expected? Most people would throw their hands up in frustration, and say they don't need to go through this just to breed kitties. Which honestly, sucks as so many love kittycats, but new blood is running for the hills.

[Arwen Swordthain]

(01-22-2018 05:33 AM)MitsuruKirijo06 Resident Wrote:  I search Torgon first but since so many still use the RM and its got more older cats I search it too. If I want a particular trait or cat and I can't find it on one market I will search the other one. I hate the way the RM search works. The problem is each time I click X on a keyword it kicks me back to the beginning and I have to scroll again. On the other hand I LOVE how the RM only shows particular traits in search if they are for sale. Torgon just lists all traits regardless of stuff being sold.

I have to agree on the searches, RMs used to be more like Torgons but the whole hiding of the search thing so you have to click to reopen to put each trait in is annoying, Torgons is hidden as well but once you open it it stays open while you select the traits you wish to search for. RMs used to be easy to use but its not anymore.
Regarding Torgons listing traits not for sale have a chat with him and see if he can fix it, I have found him very approachable and he does take on board suggestions to improve the profilers and the site.

[Minx Diabolito]

Everybody makes very good points, thankyou. Fuyutsuki when you write "Imagine being a new breeder and getting ims like that in the beginning, would you want to continue on if that is what is to be expected?" this is exactly right. It is hard enough for new people trying to learn traits and the prices, sometimes people are embarrassed to ask for help because they are new and the last thing they need is some bully ruining the experience for them when all they have tried to do is to join in and sell their cats.

Yep Arwen, he really does learn nothing apart from how to continue bullying. He knows no other way and this kind of person is best avoided. Even if possible to change or fix, it's not our problem especially after he did it for such a long time. It's clear he does not want to learn or cannot learn anything but his own way. Even if he did again another U-turn and said he is sorry and will unban people again I would not fall for it because he is such a menace. It's really astonishing to think that we all paid to get treated like this when we bought the product.

Whatever he says someone else does is usually what he does. He has accused KittyCatS of lying but it is him who has lied all the time, right from the start that he ever could make these profilers. He was never with permission to use the name or images. He did not wait for permission and just bullied on ahead then was unable to see why he had a problem. A very basic businessperson would get this issue but he cannot because his world is simple and is all about he can do what he wants and doesn't care what others want. It took time for us as a community to understand this issue. I doubt many of us would ever have bought his profiler in the first place if we knew he took images without permission.

He has lied many times about why he had fair reasons to ban people for example to Arwen. It was not fair, he does not even understand the situation and his part in it and what causes it. In the same way he has said that KittyCatS fakes numbers in their group to make it seem more are active than it really is. With the same logic we can probably say it is him who is doing it. Certainly when Tad has done the math and it shows this we can see with a very good chance it is not KittyCats who fakes the numbers, it is RM again reversing the situation!

[Rayne Morningstar]

I think it is now time to tell my tale on what I have done and why.

I do not know how many of you know me so here is a back story. I have been breeding for 6 years now and Auctioneer for just as long. I started out with Nyn, Liriel, and Leel at Kitty Kottage way before profilers were a thing and we had to post everything on the forums to advertise and send out notices. Yes, this is what I like to call Old School. When Hellcat and I got married in RL and had our child we took a break from SL for a little while. When we came back there was this new thing called RM's Profilers. These were nifty and cool and made posting cats by auction so much easier. By this time, we were working at ScratchN Post with LickN and crew. I was there when everything went down and when RM was banned from being used at that market. Rene got in a tizzy and decided to go to someone's personal land where his boards were being used to look up personal cats - not ones for sale - and disabled them. All because that auctioneer was using the Group version at home like an Owner version. Well that started the ball rolling and other Auctioneers started to have trouble on ScratchN Post as well.

By this time, Hellcat and I had moved over to Secret Smile to do our auction. She still owned the RM group profilers but I did not want to use them. Why? Because I am old school and all the trouble with Rene at ScratchN Post. I was shown that we were missing out and there was no other option for profilers at that time and the customers wanted them. So, we kept using RM's boards until he started his tizzy fits again and started attacking people. By this time, I was a Manager helping out Donna and Matt with Secret Smile and one day we were watching Rene skulk around Secret Smile and harassing customers on sim. That was the final straw and he was banned from Secret Smile for abuse.

This was right after Torgons came out and we as a Secondary Market stated we will not use RMs products at our auctions, mega mall or love shacks. But understanding that people had their own right to choose, we allowed our customers to use whichever board they wanted to. Yes, we got harassed by him but nothing a mute button could not fix. We made a stand against a bully.

This month, I was offered a job to run a new Secondary Market called Oncilla Ridge. We all sat down and talked about who was going to be on the ban list. Many were an easy choice because we were able to get lists from other markets so we could ban the known griefers. When Rene's name came up three of the managers said ban and that was it - done. We also made the choice to say "Hey our customers have the right to choose on which product they use. We will not restrict their choices on what they would like to use."

A week later, right after we started letting people set up their shops and cats were being listed, three things happened that makes me question this man's ethics.
1. He showed up on our sim, waited for over 5 mins, went to a person's profiler to reset it because the cat sold over night.
2. He got around the Estate ban to do this. Now, I will admit we could of missed something that could of caused a loophole but we do not believe so.
3. HIS TOS changed stating that he must have access at all times to his product at all locations.

Some of you know the joys and excitement of having that special cat sell for that wonderful price that is above market norm for cats and to have that all taken away from you makes you feel violated because someone else found out first and reset everything because you were asleep. It felt like someone broke in to your house and turned off your TV because you left it on and you do not know what else they did in your house while you were sleeping.

Evo, thank you for starting this thread and starting a Discussion. Everyone else, thank you for having this Discussion and not a slamfest so we have a place to show new breeders an option and to show old breeders coming back what has been going on while they are gone.

KittyCatS is a community of many different people and it's true not all of us get along for many different reasons. I believe that most of the reasons are mainly cultural or misunderstandings on translations. Yet we are still a community and that is what makes us grow. I have made some wonderful friends. I have met others who I now call my SL Family. I even met my RL wife and had a very beautiful daughter because of this community. Yes, I have had my downsides too - one of my first experiences was the person who got me in to KittyCatS going off on Callie about the Menagerie Tiger and using my name and making Callie very upset. Yet, the bright side was Callie messaged me and asked me about what I felt and what did I think about my Cattery Mate. I made a good friend that day with Callie and I hope I left the same impression on her because after we talked, I spent 30,000L that week to buy out my cattery mate so she would leave KittyCatS because I did not want to have that kind of Hate in KittyCatS.

We all have a voice in what this Community is. Yes, we will have conflicts with others but we all love doing this one thing - breeding Cats and sharing what we have done with others in the community. So long as we keep having a Discussion about concerns and do not spit hate-filled venom, this community will become stronger.

[Minx Diabolito]

Thankyou for sharing your story, Rayne. I can remember this time at Scratch and also some dramas with the auction calendars.

The profilers are there especially for auctioneers, to be able to reference the pedigree of cats being sold so they may give an educated overview of the cat up for sale at the auction to the potential buyers. It is just extreme for the creator of all people to not understand this importance. It also shows yet again the none existent boundaries, where he believes he can have access to anywhere at any time, regardless of why or how he treats people. When I was using his profilers, I used to get tired of seeing him visit my store, everytime anticipating a rude IM and praying he would just go silently. There is actually no need most of the time for him to even go there, a polite notecard would do the job. I was not in Sl every day, I did not appreciate my profilers being reset. If I had left them empty for a few weeks then sure, a couple days is quite different though. So glad I do not have to deal with this kinda thing anymore =)

[Real Martian]

Hi, I am new at these breedables and I saw people were using RM's Profilers to sell these things. I wanted to sell my cats so I bought that tool. After a week my cats were still not sold so I set the prices on the website to 1L to get more traffic. One day later Rene showed up and told me I was not allowed to do that, he gave me 2 days to fix it. I banned him and told him "Fuck you bitch, I bought it and can do whatever I want" and muted him. The next day I don't know how he did it but he got around the ban and was standing in my shop. I banned him but it did not work. He griefed me. I reported him. But now my profilers don't work. Again I am not sure how he did that since I own them. I want my money back and I will never use his tools again. I mean you should be able to do whatever you want if you bought it, right? And now I am going to tell everyone lies about him and even if I did not meet him personally I will pretend that I did and will find a good story. I know you all will help me to get rid off him, because you are like me and I also don't have anything else to do. Thank you all, I love you so much. #MeToo #RapedByRene #IAmAVictim #SpreadMyLies