KittCatS! Halloween Custom Collar Contest - results!

[Ivy Norsk]

These contests are supposed to be fun and a great way to highlight the creative things that the community can do. It's also a great bit of advertising if you make collars and things out on the grid generally. I'm sorry to see the competition (full of nice collars) get so bitter. Perhaps next time around, there shouldn't be any prize money at stake and people can just enjoy the contest for the fun that it is.

[Priestess Firanelli]

First I would like to say congrats to all the winners. There was so many nice collars and I do love these contests

I do not think that anyone feels bitterness against anyone else that was in this contest. Maybe the reason is that people do not understand the rules. At least I know I don't. Lets say you win the public votes and that would give you 10 points (according to what Callie just mentioned) ..so even if you don't get ANY jury votes (which would be unlikely for the collars that had most public votes) you would still end up in third place right? Third place went to others with 8 points. So unless there hasn't been anyone disqualified from the contest I am not sure I understand. I think a clarification would be great so everyone understands until next contest

Thanks again KC and to all you lovely and creative people!

[Eleanor8 Resident]

The final votes – going by Callie’s explanation – public vote ranked 9 – 1 points (there were 9 entries), ditto panel vote, add together = final score only makes sense if you admit that the entries with the two highest public votes have been disqualified.

If you look at the votes for the winners no entrant has a higher public vote than 7 points - ergo - the entrants with 8 and 9 points - the two entries with the highest public votes aren't there.

Mathematically it is impossible if you top the public vote (9 points) and even if the panel hated your design and placed you last (1 point) to get less than a total of 10 points. Which would have placed you in third place. Ditto, second place public vote (8 points), you couldn’t come last in the panel vote – the least score you could get would be 2 points – so also a total score of 10 points. Or I suppose you could have an 11 and a 9 overall – but it would make no difference to the places overall – those overall scores would put you in third place – not nowhere to be seen.

This isn’t the first contest that this has happened in – there have been plenty of previous contests where the entries topping the public vote haven’t been ranked in the final placing.

And this is in no way a criticism of any of the entries (great collars) or the individuals who entered. But it does appear that you have to enter a great display, collar, whatever and hope that the pubic like it – but not too much. Or else you will be disqualified – well, disappeared – under a cloud of suspicion that the only way you got those votes is by tping people in – even if you did nothing of the kind.

If you are going to invite public votes then you have to trust the public and the entrants – or else scrap the public vote all together.

[Coverboytoy Resident]

(11-01-2017 05:23 PM)Eleanor8 Resident Wrote:  If you are going to invite public votes then you have to trust the public and the entrants – or else scrap the public vote all together.

Thank you Priestess and Eleanor for a great post. That was my whole point of view in regards to the public votes. It's probably just best to not even let the public be involved in the voting process.

However, I do understand Calle's perspective on a audit system to ensure there was not cheating involved, but as Priestess pointed out (and those who understood my argument), the math just doesn't add up. When you see the calculations that doesn't add up, it will make you question the process unless there is a formula that we just don't understand. From what I see the 2 highest votes must have beend disqualified, and if that's the case, then state that oppose to leaving them in the dark.

Anyways, congratz to the winners regardless.

[Tad Carlucci]

It's time to Lock this thread.

What I see is people refusing to read and understand the rules, as they were stated prior to the competition.

The reason for the two parts is to reduce (since you cannot eliminate) the effect of people soliciting votes.

What I see is the observation that the two highest-voted entries failed to be the top winners. In fact they failed to show at all. Instead a couple of the lower-voted tied for third.

Makes perfect sense to me.

All the results show, to me, is that the solution KittyCatS came up with did the intended job.

[Priestess Firanelli]

Close the tread? Do you think that would lead to something good? Why is it wrong to be open about our questions? No one is refusing anything and no one is rude.

I don't think you understand Tad why people wonder. If a person feels their collar has been disqualified they should be told why in private. You cannot just exclude people without explanation. Yes I guess you can but that only leads to lack of trust in the process, just like Coverboy mentioned, if you yourself know you haven't cheated.

I see this tread as a great opportunity for everyone to understand a bit more and hopefully it leads to a better understanding about what has happened and how to move forward. I of course understand that KC only has the best intentions. However, if we together can come up with something where all of our collar makers feels they want to participate, it will benefit us all. Several are not in the contest because of earlier similar situations. Thanks to this tread and the explanation Callie gave we now know how the panel votes and public votes are counted. We did not know that before. That was not in the rules. I like that they have a combo of votes but as Eleanor said, ”If you are going to invite public votes then you have to trust the public and the entrants – or else scrap the public vote all together”.

I do understand that KC has all the best intentions. It is a great company and it cannot be easy to always know what is best to do in different situations. Thanks to this forum we can communicate when we feel something has been left out or when we would like to have something clarified etc. Maybe another way can be to let a panel vote be worth 2 times more than a public ones and then accept the votes that comes in as they are ?

[Illuminatra Resident]

(11-03-2017 12:49 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  It's time to Lock this thread.

What I see is people refusing to read and understand the rules, as they were stated prior to the competition.

The reason for the two parts is to reduce (since you cannot eliminate) the effect of people soliciting votes.

What I see is the observation that the two highest-voted entries failed to be the top winners. In fact they failed to show at all. Instead a couple of the lower-voted tied for third.

Makes perfect sense to me.

All the results show, to me, is that the solution KittyCatS came up with did the intended job.

No, KC should not just lock this thread. If the public is confused on something, then the company should clarify and try to provide a better understanding for everyone.

So, you're perfectly fine with the two collars that had the most public votes not placing at all in this contest? I'm not. If KC thinks that someone solicited for votes, then they need to let the entrant(s) know in private. If they had done so, I don't think the discussion would have gotten this far on this thread. We would've simply congratulated the winners and went on about our day. Instead, you have KC who displayed the results and a few people scratched their heads while looking at the numbers. If you see that first place starts with a public vote of 7, you're going to automatically wonder what happened to the collars with higher a public vote.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry. The public deserves to know what happened. If KC feels that the public shouldn't know ... at least tell the dis-counted entrants why their collars were not counted in the final votes. It's only fair. How are we supposed to trust these contests going forward if no communication is made on KC's part to entrants?

So, no... This thread should not be closed. Absolutely not.

[Tad Carlucci]

I wondered. I looked at the numbers. I went, "Ah, I see. That makes sense." But, you're right, the mistake was in showing some, but not all, of the numbers.

What I see is a contest rightly dominated by a panel of judges where some weight is given to the public vote. We don't want to give the public too much weight because, all bellyaching to the contrary, cheating is rampant.

So, when factoring in the public vote, the #1 winner (Kathy0831) has the same score as the #2 winner (Jhanelle Bonde) call that a tie for "First place"

The #3 winner (999ShadowCat999) moves up to second place due to that tie.

The #4 winner (Lixy Byron) has the same score as the #5 winner (Trixie Ravinelli) so call that a tie for "Third place"

And y'all are complaining that the best possible placing for the most-popular could get was #6 and all three prizes has been awarded so they lost out.

The alternative would be simply to go with the judges and skip the public vote entirely.

--

ETA: Examining just the #2 winner (Jhanelle Bonde). She could have scored 7,8, or 9 and we'd still have a tie for first place. Or she could have scored 0 through 5 (#1, Kathy0831, scored 6), fallen to Second Place and the #4 and #5 winners (Lixy Byron and Trixie Ravinelli) would have failed to place at all.

This is the ONLY other possible outcome from this contest. Y'all are complaining that an impossible outcome should have appeared.

--

In future, I hope KittyCatS will remember that and simply state the winners without the numbers.

Their only other choice is to forgo public voting entirely. Y'all are bellyaching that your vote didn't count enough; like you wanted a popularity contest. But this wasn't about who has the most friends or can stand there the longest beggin for votes.

So, their other choice is to drop the public voting and just go with the judges.

[Illuminatra Resident]

Tad I don't think you understand what happened. Coverboy, Tess & Eleanor explained it well.

Anyhow - I hope KC reads ALL of the responses to this thread & can provide us with an explanation as to what happened.

So that everyone here knows the truth. I had the 2nd highest public vote. To assume that I cheated to get my votes is asinine. I wish I had 80+ friends to TP in to vote for me, but guess what? I don't even have 5 people that I can call true friends of mine. And I am no cheater. If KC thought that I cheated to get my votes, then they should have communicated that to me INSTEAD OF completely removing my name & the other person with the highest public vote from the final voting. As Eleanor pointed out - there's NO math on this planet that would equal to either #1 publicly voted collar or mine's not coming in 3rd place based on Callie's formula.

Anyway... I am done. No, I am NOT a disgruntled/sore loser. I am very happy for the people that won a prize. I would just like some truth as to why my collar and the #1 publicly voted one did not end up the final judging.

[Tad Carlucci]

But that's just it. The truth is public voting or no, your entry had no change of winning a prize. Period. Your best possible showing was, given the public voting, 4th Place.

You came in no better than 6th Place in the judging. Had there been no public input, that's the best you could have hoped for.

Had the public voting gone a bit different, I suppose it's possible you'd have come in 3rd Place. But it is impossible for you to have ever come in 1st or 2nd without changing the scoring to nothing more than a popularity contest. If it were that, you'd probably still have not won because someone would have "gamed" the system.