The Genesis Project

[Ivy Norsk]

The newest genesis furs are now out, so it really is time to deal with the old furs and get their chart into order. The chart above contains no new information and is not based on any new breeding of mine. It is simply a different graphical representation of the material which is already on Saga. I thought this format would be more conducive to conducting further proofs. I would appreciate some proofreading and double-checking by my breeder companions to make sure I haven’t done any inverting or problematic typos.

A few words about the chart:

Column A is placed furs as usual.
The other columns represent the different generations (or years) of gen furs shown in their own relative dominance - which has been proved. There’s a bit more up/down fluidity to these columns than in the regular Saga charts, but I think it still helps. In addition to showing the internal dominance within the generations, many of the furs have added information (< fur or > fur) which shows that a proof has been conducted about that particular fur. I do not have access to these proofs - again, this is all material that is taken from the Saga site.

I’d like to go over the other columns, starting with D and working inwards.

Column D is the 2016 furs. If Ginger 1 is dominant to Domino 5, then the whole column will be placed and stack on top of the older furs. I am running that test now at the Saga site.

Column C is all the Gen 5s (2015). This is the most interesting column. We have a proof that places the top fur, Domino 5. But look at the bottom fur, Flame 5. It’s recessive. It could fit anywhere within the bottom 10 furs. Personally, I would be tickled pink if it turned out that Flame 5 was recessive to Flame 1, and that the 5s straddled all of the older generations. There are no proofs for any of the other Gen 5 furs. They could go anywhere in the range. Clearly more testing is needed here.

Column B is all the Gen 4s (2014). I’ve cheated a bit with the blue coloration. The range is not as fixed as the color implies. What it does emphasize is that the bottom of the range - Smokey 4 - is recessive to Domino 3 but is (interestingly) tethered to Flame 5, which can be anywhere in the bottom 10. The top of the range was just placed: Coco 4 is recessive to Coco 3. An earlier version of the Saga charts listed Coco 4 as being dominant to Smokey 3 but I do not see that now. If this is still true, then Coco 4 only needs to be tested versus Diamond 3 to be placed.

There you have it. As I said, proofreading is welcome. There have been some changes in the Genesis sections of the Saga chart in the past day or so. We aren’t privy to the proofs but stuff is going on. I had just opened testers for Coco 3 versus coco 4 and that test is apparently already completed.

[Kayla Woodrunner]

so it sounds like it's all been figured out within each generation and what needs to be placed is between the generations? and generally speaking they are becoming increasingly dominant? The first 3 generations look consistent -- each generation sitting cleanly on the last generation -- but the data on generation 4 looks a tad scrambled.

I am assuming in your lineup on the left, the top is most dominant and the bottom is most recessive (that is very helpful for me since I work easier with visuals)

Since the greater than and less than signs are confusing to me I used the column 1 line up which visually shows Domino 5 is dominant to Coco 3 to match against the line Domino 5 > Coco 3 (so I knew > meant dominant to) to rephrase the following into dominant/recessive phrasing
Domino 5 is dominant to Coco 3..........................................................Dominant 5 > Coco 3
Coco 3 is dominant to Coco 4 ...........................................................Coco 3 > Coco 4 (anamoly from 1st 3 gens)
Domino 4 is dominant to Flame 3........................................................ Domino 4 > Flame 3
Diamond 3 is dominant to Diamond 4............................................... Diamond 3 > Diamond 4 (anamoly from 1st 3 gens)
Domino 3 is dominant to Flame 4..................................................... Domino 3 > Flame 4 (anamoly from 1st 3 gens)
Domino 3 is dominant to Smokey 4 .................................................. Domino 3 > Smokey 4 (anamoly from 1st 3 gens)

It would suggest a change in programming in how the genesis furs are added. KC does change things up now and then so it's quite possible but will make things more challenging if they did.

But I would check it through a smokey 4/Coco 3 test. if the Coco 4 through Smokey 4 stack is correct and Smokey 4 is the proven most recessive of the Gen 4s, test Smokey 4 against Coco 3 (the most dominant of the 3s) to see if Smokey 4 is dominant to Coco 3. If it is, that should put the whole batch of 4's sitting above the 3s as in the previous generations.

If anyone has a chart with a coco 3 or smokey 4 shown proving a hid of either, could you post the chart please.

[Arwen Swordthain]

Just an FYI, since I have all the new genesis furs in my starters I'll be starting tests between them once I have finished testing for hids. Its seperate to any testing between generations though. I'll start a seperate thread for it once I have something to post unless someone else beats me to it

[Ivy Norsk]

I also have a Patch boy (the most dominant of last years furs) up at the Saga site to see if the new furs stack on top of last year's 2016 (genesis 6) furs. I expect to run him against any various and sundry gen'17 girls that I get ahold of from my Painted loves or other breeder-folk.

[Arwen Swordthain]

(02-26-2017 06:56 PM)Ivy Norsk Wrote:  I also have a Patch boy (the most dominant of last years furs) up at the Saga site to see if the new furs stack on top of last year's 2016 (genesis 6) furs. I expect to run him against any various and sundry gen'17 girls that I get ahold of from my Painted loves or other breeder-folk.

I have some Gen '16 cats live as well so I'll see if I can run some of those as well to help out.

[CrystalCharlette Resident]

Hi!

Not sure if this is of any use, but I have the following that I am willing to part with if they prove useful for testing:

Diamond II
Diamond III
Pearl
Mocha (hiding burmilla choc)
Coco V
Ginger
Ginger II

I also have a PURE (I believe) Coco I (first gen) HOWEVER I am only willing to sell this, as they are so very rare and I'd struggle to get another.

Feel free to IM me if any of it is any use.

[wildblueviolet Sunset]

Hi I have a proof that
GenPearl I is Dominant to Gen Coco V

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Since I am a listmaker and sometimes lists help to bring out something that was missed, I am making a list from the Saga update history of any updates on genesis furs only.

Intergenerational Genesis Furs updates from Saga update history list
for consistency sake, listing everything by "dominant to"
for brevity sake, took off Genesis as that can be assumed.
since it has been proven the sequence within each generation, i am removing same generation updates and keeping only intergenerational updates

Apr 19 2017 Patch II dominant to Patch I
Apr 12 2017 Coco IV dominate Diamond III
Dec 9 2016 Ginger I dominant Diamond V
11 Jun 2016 Domino II dominant to Domino 1
11 Jun 2016 Pearl I dominant to Diamond V
6 Jun 2016 Patch I dominant to Domino V
15 Aug 2015 Domino V dominant to Coco III
12 May 2015 Flame III dominant to Smokey II
8 May 2015 Domino III dominant to Flame IV
24 Apr 2015 Domino III dominant to Smokey IV
12 Apr 2015 Smokey IV dominant to Flame V

Two landmark proofs are:
11 Jun 2016 Domino II dominant to Domino 1
Because Domino I is the most dominant of the I series and
Domino II is the most recessive of the II series
it proves Series II is entirely dominant to Series I
(any tests between I and II are now unencessary)

12 May 2015 Flame III dominant to Smokey II
Because Smokey II is the most dominant of the II series and
Flame III is the most recessive of the III series
it proves Series III is entirely dominant to Series II
(any tests between II and III as well as between I and III are now unnecessary)

[Arwen Swordthain]

I sat last night and analysed the relationship between gen 3 & 4, I'm more for charts than list like Kayla.



Because I have Domino IV live from testing eyes I was looking at getting that placed and seeing if others drop into place alongside it. We know its dominant to Flame III so therefore Coco IV is as well. Diamond IV is recessive to Diamond III and Domino III is dominant to Flame IV & Smokey IV.
After a bit of searching on my alts I found a Domino III stashed so I popped her as it would be a placement proof should Domino III prove dominant to Domino IV.

[Ivy Norsk]

The Genesis 5s continue to be interesting. Diamond 3 is dominant to Coco5:



Straightforward proof: I mated a Diamond 3 (Egon) with a Coco 5 (Nyssa). They produced a Diamond 3 offspring (Scribbles). When Scribbles is mated with a more recessive-furred cat (Jeri showing Aussie Lilac), it pulls the hidden Coco 5 on the kitten.

I am running a Flame 5 x Flame 2 test to see how far the spread is among the Genesis 5s. We already know that Flame 5 is in the bottom half of the Genesis furs... how low can it go?

Update on other tests: The Ginger1 x Domino 5 test continues to frustrate. I was running 2 couples on that test because of its importance. This week they both revealed their hiddens and their hiddens turned out to be the wrong hidden. Those couples are retired and a new box has been opened to resume testing.