Tonkinese - Blue Point Recessiveness

[Arwen Swordthain]

I know that the Saga charts now list Tonkinese Blue Point as placed but in the spirit of wrapping up this thread with a placement proof I have decided to carry on with my tests and today popped the 5th Blue Point box from mine and Revens pair, first 4 hid blue marble so heres hoping number 5 hides the Nat Mink and we can post a proof here for everyone to see.
Of course if the Saga team are willing to share their placement proof that would be awesome. I do feel that sharing of placement proofs is helpful to the community, esp to new breeders so they can see why and how traits are placed and encourage them to join in, whether its sending proofs to the Saga Team or posting here for all to see.
Alternatively if the person that supplied the proof is reading, any chance you can share with the rest of us please

[Reven Rosca]

(12-06-2016 05:11 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote:  I know that the Saga charts now list Tonkinese Blue Point as placed but in the spirit of wrapping up this thread with a placement proof I have decided to carry on with my tests and today popped the 5th Blue Point box from mine and Revens pair, first 4 hid blue marble so heres hoping number 5 hides the Nat Mink and we can post a proof here for everyone to see.
Of course if the Saga team are willing to share their placement proof that would be awesome. I do feel that sharing of placement proofs is helpful to the community, esp to new breeders so they can see why and how traits are placed and encourage them to join in, whether its sending proofs to the Saga Team or posting here for all to see.
Alternatively if the person that supplied the proof is reading, any chance you can share with the rest of us please

This fur has been a bugger, and I need to nail it down for my own sanity's sake.
I have one test pair breeding, and they will have to work for their kibble. Just a few more weeks now!

[Arwen Swordthain]

So Violet and Mitchel have finished breeding, poor Violet got too old. In total they produced 6 Blue Points, the first 4 hid AMBM number 5 bred today and number 6 is waiting patiently.
So Number 5, Lover Boy (system name), unfortunately he declined to reveal his hidden fur today electing instead to give me this little piece of prettiness



fingers crossed for next week and Nat Mink just to wrap this thread up with a proof for future reference.

[Brunabug Nightfire]

Hello Arwen,
Sorry I am just now seeing this post asking if SAGA team could share the pictures that we got placing the Proof for TonkBluePoint. I have taken a few minutes and looked back what was submitted and the person who sent pictures in was wildblueviolet Sunset. If you want you could try and contact her and ask her if she can show you. In the mean time I will ask if I can post the screen shots showing proof and try to do that in the next week. Sorry for the delay but with Christmas it might take a few extra days. Thanks for everyone understanding.
BreeAnn (brunabug Nightfire)- SAGA Team Member

(12-06-2016 05:11 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote:  I know that the Saga charts now list Tonkinese Blue Point as placed but in the spirit of wrapping up this thread with a placement proof I have decided to carry on with my tests and today popped the 5th Blue Point box from mine and Revens pair, first 4 hid blue marble so heres hoping number 5 hides the Nat Mink and we can post a proof here for everyone to see.
Of course if the Saga team are willing to share their placement proof that would be awesome. I do feel that sharing of placement proofs is helpful to the community, esp to new breeders so they can see why and how traits are placed and encourage them to join in, whether its sending proofs to the Saga Team or posting here for all to see.
Alternatively if the person that supplied the proof is reading, any chance you can share with the rest of us please

[Brunabug Nightfire]

I have spoken with Wildblueviolet Sunset and gotten permission from her to post her Pedigree regarding the TonkBluePoint fur.

TonkBluePoint dominant to TonkNaturalMink
*** PLEASE NOTE THE GRANDPARENTS 9T Reynolds and Taiba 9T for Reynolds (full siblings) Pedigrees have been added below to prove they are showing and hiding TonkNatMink fur. Lloyd is showing and hiding TonkNatMink fur.



There is 3 more pictures saved showing the back ground of the father cat proving more about its hidden fur. I can post those 3 more pictures if you want me to. Just let me know. Hopes this information helps you out

Adding the pictures per requested-
Proof that Grandparents (9T Reynolds and Tabia 9T for Reynolds- who happen to also be full siblngs) in first picture above are Pure TonkNaturalMink

The picture below shows information about Tait *she is the mother in the picture and is hiding TonkNatural Mink.
(Note: she is also the Grandmother of 9T Reynolds and Tabia 9T for Reynolds, GreatGrandmother to Lloyd in the first picture and GreatGreat Grandmother to the kitten in the first picture called "I am proof TonkBluePoint is dominant to TonkNatMink) **Pictures below show her up in the Pedigree

It is already known that BaliCreamLynx and TonkNatural Mink are both dominant to AustMistBlue. The fact that we see TonkNatural Mink on Tait's Offspring proves she is hiding the TonkNatMink fur.



Pedigree of 9T Reynolds showing Tait is grandmother on both sides. Mother (Bess) and father(Porgy) both showing AbyDarkCocolate and hiding the TonkNatMink. They also happen to be full siblings. Mother and father both tossed their hidden fur to allow Reynold to have TonkNatMink.


Pedigree of Tabia 9T for Reynold showing Tait is grandmotehr on both sides. Same parents as 9T Reynolds. Both Mother and Father (Bess and Porgy- also full siblings) tossed hidden fur again- TonkNatMink. PLEASE Note that 9T Reynold and Tabia 9T for Reynold are full siblings.



Hope this added information helps you all.
-BreeAnn

[Reven Rosca]

(12-22-2016 01:18 PM)Brunabug Nightfire Wrote:  I have spoken with Wildblueviolet Sunset and gotten permission from her to post her Pedigree regarding the TonkBluePoint fur.

TonkBluePoint dominant to TonkNaturalMink



There is 3 more pictures saved showing the back ground of the father cat proving more about its hidden fur. I can post those 3 more pictures if you want me to. Just let me know. Hopes this information helps you out

Yes, please, Bree.
Arwen and I have a LOT of similar pedigrees among us, so either a proof that the NatMink is pure or a pulled hidden is needed to accept this as proof.
The shown pedigree proves Tonkinese Blue Point as recessive to Australian Mist Snow, but nothing more.

[Brunabug Nightfire]

I added the pictures to my original post and explanation. I hope I got it all clear so every one understands.

[HappyDaize Resident]

(12-22-2016 04:09 PM)Brunabug Nightfire Wrote:  I added the pictures to my original post and explanation. I hope I got it all clear so every one understands.

Thank you for adding those additional proof pedigrees. I think it is very important we share and explain pedigrees such as those, so that people can see that a cat is indeed proven 'pure' for a trait, and that it is not simply an assumption.

[Arwen Swordthain]

Thank you Bree for getting that posted for us and adding the purity proof.
Maybe you could encourage people to post their proofs to the forums as well as sending to saga. Not everyone conducts tests at the Saga space so not all tests and testers will be known. If proofs are posted here as well those of us conducting tests will know when our tests are no longer needed and can refocus on other tests instead of wasting our time on irrelevant ones.
As I'm sure you will be one of the first to acknowledge in the past vetting of proofs by the Saga team hasn't always been timely and a more open and sharing approach may stop people getting discouraged by carrying on with tests no longer needed.
I currently have 6 cats dedicated to this test, 2 retired last week meaning I did have 8 at time of requesting the proof be posted, the 6 left likely would never have been opened had the proof been posted here. I'm sure you can appreciate that we prefer not to waste time on placed traits.

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Thanks Brunabug for all the proofs you posted including proving what the previous generations had. And thank wildblueviolet too. It's much appreciated.