Foxie - Chestnut

[Brunabug Nightfire]

Hello Carina- I sent you a Email through the forums. I work with the SAGA team and I had a few questions about pedigrees for this new fur. HOpe to hear back from you.

[Reven Rosca]

Foxie Chestnut is dominant to Tonkinese Blue Mink



Mom shows Tonkinese Blue Mink
Dad is a Fall 2016 starter
Kitten shows Foxie Chestnut, and hides Tonkinese Blue Mink or more recessive.

Mom's pedigree can be traced back to the very first Tonkinese Blue Mink that was bred, and must therefore be pure.
This proves that Foxie Chestnut is dominant to Tonkinese Blue Mink.

Grandpa's pedigree (He's backbred to mom)


Great-great-grandparents Seth and Meg's pedigree (Full Siblings)


I could continue, but choose to stop here, since the oldest cats here predate Burmilla Chocolate.

Many thanks to Dimpz morane who let me share these pedigrees.

Edited to add:
These pedigree charts are all we need to prove purity as long as we _know_ that Meg and Seth are full siblings.
More info and Meg's pedigree is posted further down.

[KittyCatsProofs Resident]

The forum charts have been updated with the new range for Foxie Chestnut: Recessive to Aby Dark and dominant to Tonkinese Blue Mink.

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Burmilla - Chocolate Silver Shaded discovered by fabioazeveda Oh (February 2, 2016) which is 304 days from today. Up until that time Tonki Blue Mink was the most recessive fur and therefore was automatically pure. Seth is proven to come from an ancestry line greater than 304 days since we can see his grandparents are 337-366 days old. You don't need to go back any further in the ancestry than that. Since you said Meg and Seth are full siblings, she is also proven to be greater than 304 days. It's a good chart to bring in because a lot of people don't think about how long a line has been bred as a contributing factor in dominance using newer furs.

However hate to be purist since I trust you Reven but since I would ask the same of someone brand new to the forum, can you show the chart of Meg showing her parents so everyone can see her parents are Carah and Renly too? I would appreciate it.

People have been asking me about dominance proofs lately and I've been telling them dominance proofs are based on "show me" proofs so people see the proof rather than "looks true" proofs or "trust me" proofs. I realize you probably have already seen Meg's chart but it would be nice to have it posted. Less confusing for newer dominance testers.

[Reven Rosca]

(12-03-2016 04:23 PM)Kayla Woodrunner Wrote:  *snip*
However hate to be purist since I trust you Reven but since I would ask the same of someone brand new to the forum, can you show the chart of Meg showing her parents so everyone can see her parents are Carah and Renly too? I would appreciate it.

People have been asking me about dominance proofs lately and I've been telling them dominance proofs are based on "show me" proofs so people see the proof rather than "looks true" proofs or "trust me" proofs. I realize you probably have already seen Meg's chart but it would be nice to have it posted. Less confusing for newer dominance testers.

I sure can, and I'll post two charts

First Grandma / Great-Grandma Rhi Rhi


And her mother Meg



We don't see this kind of proof often, since we normally pull hiddens to prove recessiveness. Dominance can basically not be proven unless yoiu can prove that the cat who carries the recessive trait is pure.

In this case, purity is proven based on the time the line has been bred and the fact that the trait in question was pure by defailt as the most recessive.
If we were working woth a more dominant trait, we must have shown pedigrees where the recessive trait is pulled through a more dominant trait.

Meg and Seth's dad Renly is a good example of this:


The Tonkinese Blue Mink Sahara is bred to the Siamese Chocolate Tortie Dallon_Wild.
Their daughter Purisima shows Australien Mist Blue Marble, which must be Dad's hidden, and therefore hides Tonkinese Blue Mink.

Purisima is then bred to the Siamese Chocolate Tortie Quink
Their son Shady shows Siamese Chocolate Tortie and must hide either Australien Mist Blue Marble or Tonkinese Blue Mink from Purisima.

Shady is then bred back to his mother who is known to hide Tonkinese Blue Mink.
Their son Renly shows Blue Mink, and must also hide it, since it is recessive to Australian Mist Blue Marble.

This proves that Renly's fur is pure.

[Kayla Woodrunner]

Thank you, Reven! Tht is so awesome that you could do it quickly. Runs to update my lists.

Here is the current testing range

proven recessive to Abyssinian Dark Chocolate

Tonkinese - Blue Point
Tonkinese - Natural Mink
Australian Mist - Blue Marble

Proven dominant to Tonkinese - Blue Mink

---

note: Reven noted quite rightly that I flipped the words above so I corrected them. They are correct now in case anyone gets confused.

[Reven Rosca]

You flipped dominant and recessive again, Kayla!

[Kayla Woodrunner]

oops, I did! Runs to check th list -- but I got it right there. Shakes my head. And I didn't even put any whiskey in my tea, lol.

[Arwen Swordthain]

(12-03-2016 08:23 PM)Kayla Woodrunner Wrote:  Thank you, Reven! Tht is so awesome that you could do it quickly. Runs to update my lists.

Here is the current testing range

proven recessive to Abyssinian Dark Chocolate

Tonkinese - Blue Point
Tonkinese - Natural Mink
Australian Mist - Blue Marble

Proven dominant to Tonkinese - Blue Mink

Just a quickie here in case anyone gets confused, Kayla has listed quite Rightly Tonkinese Blue Point as in the test range. I just want to clarify that as yet its placement against Natural Mink is unknown so Kaylas list is NOT an order merely a list of furs in the range. Blue Point being placement unknown the other two are in their order. Thanks Kayla
The Blue Point Nat Mink pair breed again today so fingers crossed we get a usuable result.

[Kayla Woodrunner]

I should have noted that as well Arwen so people didn't get confused, thanks. I just noticed the Blue Point needed to be tested too and plopped it in. I'm still crossing fingers re your blue point and natural mink test.