KittyCatS! Updater 1.56: give inventory failure: grey goo fence: rapid or recursive

[Shamu077 Resident]

I am being plagued by the grey goo fence error, an anti griefing script used by Linden Labs to stop rapid or recursive inventory transfer and other rapid script repetitions.

This is happening ever since the new Updater 1.56 was released yesterday.

Facts - Live cats rezzed on my sim update normally.

Kittycat boxes rezzed on my sim, update only the first few boxes before the grey goo fence error kicks in. It then stops the other updates and disables the updater script, leaving it hanging forever at "Searching for more Kittycats". Any box that triggered a grey goo fence error is NOT updated. You can only tell this by looking at Info in local chat and checking the Version number.

Fact - It is NOT sim lag. I have tried this on 4 different siims, all nearly empty and in good condition. It makes no difference where I try to update my boxes.

Fact - The number of boxes is not important either. I can set out 7 boxes to be updated and get the grey goo error at box 2. and 5 failures.

I can set out 100 boxes to be updated, and I still get the goo goo error shortly after the updating starts. Sometimes, I can get up to 5 boxes updated before failure.

The only way to reset the updater is to take it to inventory and rezz again. Then it repeats the failure mode with grey goo fence errors after a few boxes.

I am not the only one reporting this. BUT live cats do not generally trigger the grey goo fence error. Boxes do, but everyone has different results. Of course there are those that claim they just updated 50 boxes with no problem in 1 min. Let me send you my boxes then.

I have NEVER had a problem updating boxes, sometimes 150 at a time on my land, with prior KC updater versions.

This version brags it is faster. Well, LL also thinks it is a griefing tool, making those of us that breed and store boxes in-world, including shops, not happy campers.

This was supposed to be a painless upgrade, but spending 3 days trying to upgrade your inventory and still not finished is not painless !!

OK, the KC response so far is its a LL system thing and they don't know what to do about it. Maybe seeing if your new high speed updater triggers grey goo fence errors would be a start.

Yes of course I can just put all my boxes in the cattery, where they will update. And then bring them back one by one on a cattery dock, etc. IF that is the answer, then why even have an in-world updater tool?

I have filed tickets with Linden Lab, and a ticket to KC. I don't expect a solution, since "it isn't their problem".

Shamu

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Here is a recent example from my local chat - note that the first box is still Version 1.55:

[03:48:31] KittyCatS Box - 9T-m ADC BL Flair Frisky VAMP DC Plush (FLAME): rez failure: grey goo fence: rapid or recursive rez
[03:48:32] KittyCatS! Updater 1.56: If you had any cats or boxes for sale at this sim, don't forget to set them for sale again! :-)
[03:48:32] KittyCatS! Updater 1.56: give inventory failure: grey goo fence: rapid or recursive inv transfer
[03:48:33] KittyCatS! Updater 1.56: give inventory failure: grey goo fence: rapid or recursive inv transfer
[03:48:34] KittyCatS! Updater 1.56: give inventory failure: grey goo fence: rapid or recursive inv transfer
[03:48:35] KittyCatS! Updater 1.56: give inventory failure: grey goo fence: rapid or recursive inv transfer
[03:48:52] KittyCatS! Updater 1.56: If you had any cats or boxes for sale at this sim, don't forget to set them for sale again! :-)
[03:49:52] KittyCatS Box - 9T-m ADC BL Flair Frisky VAMP DC Plush (FLAME):
▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼▼
♂ 9T-m ADC BL Flair Frisky VAMP DC Plush (FLAME)

Fur: Abyssinian - Dark Chocolate
Eyes: Blacklight (Shape: Mysterious | Pupil: Small)
Shade: Flair
Tail: Frisky
Ears: Vampire
Whiskers: Dark Chocolate (Shape: Plush)
Size: Normal

Version: 1.55
Owner: Shamu077 Resident
ID: 582588e2-248a-9f7b-c671-a0c9659823f1

[KittyCats Resident]

(10-05-2016 05:15 AM)Shamu077 Resident Wrote:  This version brags it is faster. Well, LL also thinks it is a griefing tool, making those of us that breed and store boxes in-world, including shops, not happy campers.

Hi Shamu,

I'm sorry for your experience.

you seem to have misunderstood something though.
The 1.56 updater is not faster or slower than any of our previous updaters.
The update system is unchanged.

The grey goo fence error is occuring since a long time. Some are affected far more than others. Once an avatar is affected, it seems hard get rid of the problem. Slowing things down does not help a lot.

As a little test, i just updated 100 boxes, without any problem.

The speed with which the updater updates cats is well below the documented limits after which SL's "Grey Goo Fence" protection should kick in.

Several years ago, when the issue started after an SL server update, a bug report was filled with Linden Lab. They were provided with a sample, got together with an affected breeder and me, acknowledged the problem, but have since not fixed it.

At this point, i don't see much options. With the new dock retrieval functionality in version 1.56, it may be possible to update your cats in an alternative way in future by just clicking all of them on the webpage, transferring them within the same sim to a higher version dock. Since there have never been reports about docks failing to rez, it may be possible to build an alternative updater using this system, but it's no guarantee, as there are also "grey goo fence" limits for rezzing.

We also highly recommend keeping boxes in the online cattery, it's more safe than keeping them in world and they don't need to be updated.

Regards
KittyCatS

[Shamu077 Resident]

(10-05-2016 07:45 AM)KittyCats Resident Wrote:  Hi Shamu,

I'm sorry for your experience.

you seem to have misunderstood something though.
The 1.56 updater is not faster or slower than any of our previous updaters.
The update system is unchanged.

The grey goo fence error is occurring since a long time. Some are affected far more than others. Once an avatar is affected, it seems hard get rid of the problem. Slowing things down does not help a lot.
Yes I agree, nothing helps to stop this problem. I can now update about three boxes at a time before the grey goo fence takes over and stops me.

As a little test, i just updated 100 boxes, without any problem.

Well I can bring you 100 boxes and watch my grey goo problem start almost immediately. From what you are saying, my account has been targeted my Linden Labs as a griefer - because I am using your software. This is not fantasy - the Lindens have said they might adjust grey goo parameters for accounts as another anti-griefing measure. Since these accounts are usually throwaway - such a policy would be ineffective- and they would also affect legit accounts like mine.

The speed with which the updater updates cats is well below the documented limits after which SL's "Grey Goo Fence" protection should kick in.

Several years ago, when the issue started after an SL server update, a bug report was filled with Linden Lab. They were provided with a sample, got together with an affected breeder and me, acknowledged the problem, but have since not fixed it.

At this point, i don't see much options. With the new dock retrieval functionality in version 1.56, it may be possible to update your cats in an alternative way in future by just clicking all of them on the webpage, transferring them within the same sim to a higher version dock. Since there have never been reports about docks failing to rez, it may be possible to build an alternative updater using this system, but it's no guarantee, as there are also "grey goo fence" limits for rezzing.

Hmmm, and then I get more limits put on me? A better solution - I will just transfer my 1000 boxes to you, and you can update them, then transfer them back.

We also highly recommend keeping boxes in the online cattery, it's more safe than keeping them in world and they don't need to be updated.

I have many boxes in the cattery, including the most valuable. But this does not help In world shops, or my In World cattery, where I also keep boxes about to be unpacked.

Regards
KittyCatS

Breedables have always been an inworld spatial game to me - location is important. The dock only moves cats back to the dock from the cattery, not to the prior location on my land. And only one at a time. When I used the cattery for storage and breeding, it increased the time I had to spend breeding and sorting by several hours a day. And it was absolutely no fun to breed cats in a database.

I can understand why you have made this basically a web hobby, where your customers can play without owning land or spending any money in SL at all, other than kibble and milk. Some of us still prefer to be 3D avatars in a virtual world, and enjoy our kittycats and run the business in world, as in the "old" days.

Shamu

[CarlottaAdagio Resident]

I agree with you Shamu.
For me the most fun and satisfaction is to be able to tend to and to breed the kitties inworld. I actually want to see and be able to touch my kitties inworld like as you said "in the old days".

[Tad Carlucci]

Replying here due to a comment on another thread:

The fact that you can use the Dock to update and only see the problem when using the Updater does seem to point to a problem with the Updater.

KC: I would recommend an experiment: create an Updater which does one cat/box per click but, otherwise, processes exactly as it always does and have someone with the grey-goo-fence issue try it. If nothing else, it saves them having to do quite so much work using the Dock to work around the issue; and it might help localize where you can work around it in the Updaters.

[Shamu077 Resident]

(10-06-2016 09:27 AM)Tad Carlucci Wrote:  The fact that you can use the Dock to update and only see the problem when using the Updater does seem to point to a problem with the Updater.

KC: I would recommend an experiment: create an Updater which does one cat/box per click but, otherwise, processes exactly as it always does and have someone with the grey-goo-fence issue try it. If nothing else, it saves them having to do quite so much work using the Dock to work around the issue; and it might help localize where you can work around it in the Updaters.

If they did allow one click/box operation I am pretty sure there would be no grey goo fence triggered. It definitely has to do with the rapid repetition of several boxes triggering the fence. The only way I can update boxes on my land now is to rezz only 3 boxes at a time. Usually with only 3 boxes to update, there is no error. Then I rezz another 3, and restart.

(And before I did this I had to take all my boxes on the land into inventory, including every box for sale at my shop at home. I closed my kittycats shop for now, since updating and repricing one by one w/ the cattery was too much work. I tried to take some boxes to my secondary market shop, but grey goo fence was the same there. So much for the easy update they claim.)

When I try to update 4 boxes (or more) I usually get the grey goo fence on the last box. Then I send that box to the cattery and back, because I don't trust that that box is not partly broken by the fence error.

Another interesting thing - even when the grey goo fence errors occur, the Updater claims it updated all the boxes - that is the count it gives at the end is false. The ONLY way to know what box is updated is to use Info and check the version number.

And finally, another new effect of LIVE cats and the grey goo error. I said before that it was only boxes having the problem. Well, I had several live breeders that stopped talking to the KC server after they were updated to 1.56. None of the health tags above a live cat were changing. I noticed this when Happiness remained at 96% overnight. I have no milk rezzed on my land. And Love was also stuck, not increasing. These live cats showed Version 1.56 also, so I thought they were not broken by the update. I was wrong.

Sticking all my live cats into the Cattery and back again, fixed the data update problem. I wonder how many others breeders think all is well because it looks like it worked. If you ever get a grey goo fence error from the updater, the cat is not updated and is possibly damaged, no matter what the version number says.

Shamu

Still waiting for a response from Linden Lab. They turned my problem over to a "technical specialist". I expect he will tell me to unplug my router and only use the latest SL viewer. Even if I start the updater inworld and immediately log out, they will still try to blame your computer, or Firestorm. LL logic

[Tad Carlucci]

Switching to the official Second Life viewer would prove whether your issues are, or are not, viewer-related. Of course this will be the first step their support team would ask for; they cannot support Firestorm, only their own software.

Rebooting your computer and network is also a good first step since, amazingly often, if solves all sorts of issues and, when it does not, it places your system into a known, repeatable state. When doing support, I will often request not just a reboot, but a hard power cycle by unplugging from the wall since most computers do not actually power down when you press the power button.

When you go to another region (sim), be sure it is a different release channel; and repeat for the third channel to eliminate simulator release channel as a potential cause.

If you have an Alt, pass a few cats to it and test. This will help determine if it's related to something specific to your avatar. If the Alt has the problems, repeat the tests with another viewer and on the other two release channels.

Document all your tests to be sure you know what you did, when. I like to write it in a document so I can email it or drop it into a note card to speed the process along when speaking with technical support. Be prepared to repeat some, anyway, because, often, they will be able to monitor things which you cannot see.

The goal of all this is to eliminate as many variables as possible from the list of potential causes.

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Frankly, while I can accept that the issues you are having are almost certainly an indication of a bug in Linden Lab's software (unless a switch to their viewer solves your problem, in which case it's Firestorm's problem), the evidence seems to point out that KittyCats could work around the issue since you are, already, doing exactly that.

While often unpalatable, and, occasionally, the source of more problems than they solve, a work around does get past the immediate issue.

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Changing prim modes (say, to image, then back to 3D) corrects myriad issues with cats; including not talking to the Mothership. It does not, however, change their version. This should work for both cats and boxes since what you see after the change is a completely different object with fresh never-before-run scripts.

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If it's just a communications issue, simply taking the cat into inventory and placing it back in-world will generally solve the issue. This is because every time you do that, it must obtain a new "web connection" resource. Note, however, these resources are limited and shared for the entire region. While unlikely, it is possible to exhaust these resources. Sometimes the only way to get the cat talking is to go to another region.

[Shamu077 Resident]

I was talking about the grey goo fence Linden error. Losing connection may be something unrelated, and it was easy to fix. I pick up my boxes to inventory to move them all the time, so they have many chances to re establish, or lose, the KC web/server connection.

Transferring my old boxes to an alt and letting the Alt try to update multiple boxes was my next step on the grey goo error problem. I suspect the Alt will not have a problem.

I could also get naked, and wear the default shape/skin running no scripts but my avatar, and try it at 3900 meters on an empty sim. Remember I have never had any grey goo fence errors with KC updates before this one, and nothing about my avatar, scripts, or sim has changed. I updated 350 cats 2 weeks ago with zero problems on my home sim.

I will humor LL by using the SL viewer too - but I think that is chasing rainbows.

Also other InWorld breeders have told me they get some grey goo fence errors with this new update. They just aren't as affected or public about it.

[Shamu077 Resident]

Quick Update -

KittyCats sent me a workaround for the Updater that at least keeps the updating automated. Update 3 boxes, wait 1 min, update 3 more, wait 1 min, etc until all cats found have been updated. Since I found the errors started at the 4th update, this avoids triggering the error, by waiting 1 minute before starting again.

We also did testing at the KC sim, which proved conclusively that the problem is only with my account. Boxes updated with me as the owner created grey goo fence errors for KIttycats as well. Same boxes, transferred to KC as owner, and they all update quickly with no errors. This eliminates the SIM, the viewer, the web connection, etc. My account has very tight grey goo limits placed on it for unknown reasons. Waiting for Linden support to respond, been 2 days now as a 'work in progress'.

[Barry Ballyhoo]

(10-07-2016 12:54 AM)Shamu077 Resident Wrote:  And finally, another new effect of LIVE cats and the grey goo error. I said before that it was only boxes having the problem. Well, I had several live breeders that stopped talking to the KC server after they were updated to 1.56. None of the health tags above a live cat were changing. I noticed this when Happiness remained at 96% overnight. I have no milk rezzed on my land. And Love was also stuck, not increasing. These live cats showed Version 1.56 also, so I thought they were not broken by the update. I was wrong.

Sticking all my live cats into the Cattery and back again, fixed the data update problem. I wonder how many others breeders think all is well because it looks like it worked. If you ever get a grey goo fence error from the updater, the cat is not updated and is possibly damaged, no matter what the version number says.

I have 6 kittens less than 7 days old and am noticing the same thing. They were all above 93% happy this morning... which would never normally happen. Haven't checked my live milk-drinking cats yet. No grey goo fence errors when I updated.