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+--- Thread: Are new traits no longer very valuable? (/showthread.php?tid=7809)
Are new traits no longer very valuable? - dievcatko Resident - 02-28-2013 12:48 AM
I thought I was getting an INSANE deal when I found an Ody Slush kitten marked at 4K, now I see one for 2K. Am I mistaken in that these eyes just came out? People are free to set prices how they like but I'm beginning to feel guilty. Are these typical prices? The 2K is sold by someone very, very big in Kittycats who I think knows the value. Just..shocked these brand new eyes aren't going for much at all.
RE: Are new traits no longer very valuable? - dakillakm Resident - 02-28-2013 06:41 AM
I think you'll find that's because it looks like they are going to be fairly dominant, I'm pretty sure I heard someone say in Addicts chat that they used platinum to pull them. If something is that dominant then it's likely to flood the market and, hence, the prices for them drop pretty rapidly. The very first one that I know of sold at auction for around 3K so I guess for the moment betweek 2-3K is a pretty fair price.
RE: Are new traits no longer very valuable? - GhostCollective Resident - 02-28-2013 06:44 AM
I'm not new to to KC in general but I am when it comes to pricing and such, maybe whoever did it is just trying to make sure that these wonderful cats and traits have a fighting chance to be had by all people of all income levels. Not saying that for sure but I know many breeders who are fully aware of the value of the cats but also choose to make them available to as many people as well. Don't know, just saying...
RE: Are new traits no longer very valuable? - Tad Carlucci - 02-28-2013 06:44 AM
It can't be any different. Consider:
Day 0: 1 Specimen, Price 30,000, Gross Market Value: 30,000
Day 7: 2 Specimen, Price 15,000, Gross Market Value: 30,000
Day 14: 4 Specimen, Price 7,500, Gross Market Value: 30,000
Day 21: 8 Specimen, Price 3,750, Gross Market Value: 30,000
Day 28: 16 Specimen, Price 1875, Gross Market Value: 30,000
So, already, just one month after discovery, the price has "crashed" from 30,000L$, each, to 1,875L$, each. But notice the effect on the market is constant. By the end of the second month, the price will be down to 100L$ and someone will post about how the market has crashed.
The good thing is, when the price gets down to around 100 to 300L$ for the trait, the "true value" point has been reached and, while the number of specimen continues to rise, the price stops falling. At that point, the effect upon the market goes up. So, it's actually best, in the long term, once the price-point is reached because, only then, does the cash flowing through the markets actually increase.
RE: Are new traits no longer very valuable? - Kayleigh McMillan - 02-28-2013 08:40 AM
I might be weird wait,... I know I am
But I pay for the looks.
The Coon for example I thougt was so pretty but I knew it was pulled with the Choc Lynx so likely not so recessive and still I was very willing to pay the price.
Eventhough I rather had the Coon hidden but it was too late I was in love :-)
For me personally dominant is the new recessive as for value because after the recessives flooted the market I breed for strong lines to make sure traits my starters might hide will be hidden behind their partner's traits in their OS instead of shown.
Which makes the desired new trait so much more doable to work with for the end user because they don't have to worry an unwanted recessive suddenly pops up instead of that new trait they bought.
Slush is such a pretty eye I think!
I need to have one hidden behind a more dominant though I hope the lucky finder of Slush is to do that and I will buy it straight away
I agree with Daki, people tend to value dominant traits less than the recessives in the amount they ask so the price asked seems to be right looking at past dominant traits which reached the market.
I rarely see the Ody Wonder eyes for example this has likely to do with the fact it is a fairly recessive eye but still more dominant than prism.
It was likely most of the time not bred pure why it did not reach the market in a large amount but is seldom seen instead.
This eye seems to be more rare than most recessives are.
RE: Are new traits no longer very valuable? - dakillakm Resident - 02-28-2013 09:54 AM
I totally agree Kay! Dominant or not I was trying to battle someone at the bidboards for some Slush eyes, they really are beautiful!
RE: Are new traits no longer very valuable? - Mandred Blackadder - 02-28-2013 11:11 AM
(02-28-2013 12:48 AM)dievcatko Resident Wrote: I thought I was getting an INSANE deal when I found an Ody Slush kitten marked at 4K, now I see one for 2K. Am I mistaken in that these eyes just came out? People are free to set prices how they like but I'm beginning to feel guilty. Are these typical prices? The 2K is sold by someone very, very big in Kittycats who I think knows the value. Just..shocked these brand new eyes aren't going for much at all.
I know you feeling..., I feel the same when I see the abyss creme in 400L with 7T, we dont have the abyss creme in our cattery, I know that is dominant, is beauty fur and I think that soon come in retired. We learned with the time here, the every one make his price, his owne marketing, but definitive for us is more fun make skills advance in our breeding(special in recessive traits). Every one have his owne dream kittycats breed and working in it with passion.
RE: Are new traits no longer very valuable? - Dimpz Morane - 02-28-2013 01:28 PM
(02-28-2013 11:15 AM)neckcadaver Resident Wrote: and maybe new people at those markets dont realize how long it takes to pull something or how much love and time goes into breeding so they copy what they see
The OP stated "The 2K is sold by someone very, very big in Kittycats who I think knows the value"
I guess this kinda feels like price setting from above - if a big breeder can sell so low - others may feel they have to follow suit, or risk having no customers
RE: Are new traits no longer very valuable? - Bea Shamrock - 02-28-2013 02:19 PM
(02-28-2013 06:41 AM)dakillakm Resident Wrote: I think you'll find that's because it looks like they are going to be fairly dominant, I'm pretty sure I heard someone say in Addicts chat that they used platinum to pull them. If something is that dominant then it's likely to flood the market and, hence, the prices for them drop pretty rapidly. The very first one that I know of sold at auction for around 3K so I guess for the moment betweek 2-3K is a pretty fair price.
oh yes! definitely. Dominant = ewwwwwwww!!!!!!!!
Sadly that's what I feel a large part of the community is feeling.
(Yes I read your post below Daki)
I'm glad some breeders still breed gorgeous red tabbies, red and white tabbies, azure, fire, ody splash, ody sorbet, grass (we need more out there though!), and other *ugh* dominant traits. In the case of tails, whiskers and ears, of course, it seems more of an accident and so there are more mysterious, curiousE, frisky, white mysterious whiskers. Or they're kept under lock and key, like the sometimes peeking booboo whiskers or even Ody Wonder, as Kay mentions (not that Kay mentions it in any way that suggests she agrees with this -that's for her to say).
Yes I know...my wrist will be slapped at any moment. i'm used to it.
BTW: why is a cat with a super recessive fur and one or two traits waaay more expensive than 9T red tabbies? Definitely NOT because a lot of effort and kibble went into its breeding.
RE: Are new traits no longer very valuable? - dakillakm Resident - 02-28-2013 03:14 PM
(02-28-2013 02:19 PM)Bea Shamrock Wrote: oh yes! definitely. Dominant = ewwwwwwww!!!!!!!!
Sadly that's what I feel a large part of the community is feeling.
While I know you are right that there are breeders out there who shy away from anything dominant, I know there are lots of breeders like myself plodding along with our beloved aby lilacs, ody sorbets, or plush whiskers, etc. I think the THEORY behind higher prices for more recessive would be the fact that they would be harder to discover, harder to breed out, and useful for breeding more dominant traits as well. This doesn't actually happen in reality when fairly dominant furs, like aby blues which I lurvvvvv, seem certainly more RARE even if they aren't the most recessive. I guess the point I was making is that a few thousand lindens for a new middle of the chart trait seems reasonable if you like it and want it. Part of the reason, I would guess, people pay much more for more recessive new traits is that they won't be everywhere within a month. I'm thinking of recent examples like Foxie Auburn and Foxie Salt and Pepper. Auburns were fairly high priced but pretty quickly the priced drop because they were EVERYWHERE, doesn't mean they were any less cute but you're not going to pay a top dollar exclusive price for something that's readily available. Salt and Pepper, so far, hasn't popped up very much even though it's been nearly 3 months since its discovery.
But, you're definitely right Bea that this doesn't really account for why more recessive things are more pricey once they are well integrated into the market. I wonder if it's just because more recessive = more pricey or if there is more logic to it?
Hopefully this wasn't too rambling
