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+--- Thread: Looking for Land Rentals that Allow Breedables (/showthread.php?tid=33716)
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Looking for Land Rentals that Allow Breedables - Saxoni Fenstalker - 09-25-2019 02:56 AM
I know I've seen this discussed in group chat before, but I didn't pay close attention at the time because I wasn't homeless then like I am now. lol. If anyone knows of any, please let me know. I have limited time in SL to search, and the rentals I've found so far either limit you to a very few cats or want to you to keep them un-animated. Any help is much appreciated!
RE: Looking for Land Rentals that Allow Breedables - Ivy Norsk - 09-25-2019 06:14 AM
I know not everybody can do premium, but I'll still put in my two cents that mainland is the best place for having cats.
RE: Looking for Land Rentals that Allow Breedables - Luckylady Llewellyn - 09-25-2019 10:31 AM
Saxony: I've just moved my cats FROM mainland because of neighbors using too many scripts on their parcels, which affected MY cats and script use. My sim has no covenant, and that is not a good thing. People then take advantage and use more than their share of scripts. There is only so much signal power per sim and if it's used by one or two individuals, in my case, my cats were constantly in distress from signal not reaching our server.
As much as we would like to have as many as we want, the reason for limiting animals is the active scripts usage we make with our cats as well. I limit my live cats, mostly have 2D flat cats, The rest I keep in Cattery, where there is no issue with space or how many we keep there.
I was homeless in RL last year. Not a "settled" feeling, so hugs for that. But, you may consider renting from an agent who can change your parcel if the one doesnt work for you, in hopes that switching to another area will be a better "fit". I bought the parcel I have now and have a premium account, so I'm a bit more stuck then just renting and moving when needed. Find me in world for the name of a trusted rental agent. Hugs!
... rentals I've found so far either limit you to a very few cats or want to you to keep them un-animated. Any help is much appreciated!
RE: Looking for Land Rentals that Allow Breedables - Saxoni Fenstalker - 09-26-2019 02:24 AM
Ivy and Lucklady,
I know where both of you are coming from. I used to have a premium account and "owned" a chunk of mainland for years. But I'm just not able to be in SL enough to justify the cost of the annual fee and tier. Still, I miss my kitties and would love to have a place where I could keep a few of them (plus some the silly stuff I've collected over the years). Thanks for your responses. I'll keep looking. You never know what might turn up in SL! And Luckylady, I just might look you up for the name of the rental agent you mentioned. Thanks again!
RE: Looking for Land Rentals that Allow Breedables - Arwen Swordthain - 09-26-2019 02:38 AM
I agree with Ivy that mainland is best for cats, but like Lucky I have also encountered issues with inconsiderate neighbours. There is a land rental guy on the sim I am on and while he and his operations are fine occasionally his tenants cause problems (usually encroachment over my border), that said I don't think he places restrictions on breedables so might be worth a look, its the parcel right next door to my cattery and you can TP there from my picks if you are interested in looking. Its usually Estate rentals with restrictions rather than mainland ones I think. The landlord are the ones getting moaned at on Estates but mainland rentals seem to be slightly more relaxed. Anyway, he has a booth with his rentals on the plot next to me. There are horses on one of the rentals and a lot of them, I rarely have any issues with my cats here. Hope that helps
RE: Looking for Land Rentals that Allow Breedables - ShannonSpoonhunter Resident - 09-26-2019 06:14 PM
(09-26-2019 02:24 AM)Saxoni Fenstalker Wrote: Ivy and Lucklady,
I know where both of you are coming from. I used to have a premium account and "owned" a chunk of mainland for years. But I'm just not able to be in SL enough to justify the cost of the annual fee and tier. Still, I miss my kitties and would love to have a place where I could keep a few of them (plus some the silly stuff I've collected over the years). Thanks for your responses. I'll keep looking. You never know what might turn up in SL! And Luckylady, I just might look you up for the name of the rental agent you mentioned. Thanks again!
Try Paradise Estates? They have some sims specifically zoned for Breedables (where my cats live).
RE: Looking for Land Rentals that Allow Breedables - Shamu077 Resident - 09-26-2019 07:26 PM
I rent a parcel on a private sim, residential rating, that has reasonable rules for breedables and pets. Normally we have about 10 pet kittycats running around all the time, and have never noticed any excess lag from them.
Physics Time is what can lag, so best to restrict the moving cats to ranges that do not collide with walls etc. Also set trees, shrubs, and furniture to phantom when possible.
My breedables usually have movement turned off, but I keep them 3D unless I am running short of prims. It all depends on how many 3D cats you want to move. 100 breedables with movement turned off contribute little to lag, about the same as 2 mesh avatars on the sim.
I also keep breedables out of sight on a platform 3500 meters up, since those same script heavy mesh avatars that complain about lag are usually creating it themselves. But if they see breedables or pets next door, of course they will assume that is the problem.
Generally if your cats do not increase lag more than your avatar you are fine with a reasonable land company. Many landlords are totally unreasonable however, and just avoid renting from them.
This is in my Covenant about animals:
8. Breeding animals are allowed if movements and sounds are turned off and lag stays under control.
9. Pets (NON - Breeding ) are allowed if they don't collide with objects and movement is turned off when no one is in the parcel.
I have been here 4 years and have never had a complaint. When there is a lag issue, it is always some newbie moving in with animesh pests running all over and getting stuck in walls. Or someone that rezzed enough scripted objects to be labeled a griefer.
RE: Looking for Land Rentals that Allow Breedables - Saxoni Fenstalker - 09-27-2019 03:09 AM
(09-26-2019 02:38 AM)Arwen Swordthain Wrote: I agree with Ivy that mainland is best for cats, but like Lucky I have also encountered issues with inconsiderate neighbours. There is a land rental guy on the sim I am on and while he and his operations are fine occasionally his tenants cause problems (usually encroachment over my border), that said I don't think he places restrictions on breedables so might be worth a look, its the parcel right next door to my cattery and you can TP there from my picks if you are interested in looking. Its usually Estate rentals with restrictions rather than mainland ones I think. The landlord are the ones getting moaned at on Estates but mainland rentals seem to be slightly more relaxed. Anyway, he has a booth with his rentals on the plot next to me. There are horses on one of the rentals and a lot of them, I rarely have any issues with my cats here. Hope that helps
Thank you, Arwen! Mainland rentals do seem to have less rules; it's probably why I'm generally more comfortable there. lol I'll definitely check out your landlord's rentals.
(09-26-2019 06:14 PM)ShannonSpoonhunter Resident Wrote: Try Paradise Estates? They have some sims specifically zoned for Breedables (where my cats live).
Thank you for the suggestion, Shannon. I'll check them out.
(09-26-2019 07:26 PM)Shamu077 Resident Wrote: I rent a parcel on a private sim, residential rating, that has reasonable rules for breedables and pets. Normally we have about 10 pet kittycats running around all the time, and have never noticed any excess lag from them.
Physics Time is what can lag, so best to restrict the moving cats to ranges that do not collide with walls etc. Also set trees, shrubs, and furniture to phantom when possible.
My breedables usually have movement turned off, but I keep them 3D unless I am running short of prims. It all depends on how many 3D cats you want to move. 100 breedables with movement turned off contribute little to lag, about the same as 2 mesh avatars on the sim.
I also keep breedables out of sight on a platform 3500 meters up, since those same script heavy mesh avatars that complain about lag are usually creating it themselves. But if they see breedables or pets next door, of course they will assume that is the problem.
Generally if your cats do not increase lag more than your avatar you are fine with a reasonable land company. Many landlords are totally unreasonable however, and just avoid renting from them.
This is in my Covenant about animals:
8. Breeding animals are allowed if movements and sounds are turned off and lag stays under control.
9. Pets (NON - Breeding ) are allowed if they don't collide with objects and movement is turned off when no one is in the parcel.
I have been here 4 years and have never had a complaint. When there is a lag issue, it is always some newbie moving in with animesh pests running all over and getting stuck in walls. Or someone that rezzed enough scripted objects to be labeled a griefer.
Shamu, thank you for this information. I had no idea that collision with physical objects causes lag. I'm pretty sure I set all my trees and landscaping to phantom, but not the walls of my house and not my furniture. I would regularly see my kitties trying to push their way through the walls to get in or out. Lag can definitely be a problem when so many objects have scripts in them. Once I find a new home, I'll keep all this in mind. Thanks, again!
RE: Looking for Land Rentals that Allow Breedables - Tad Carlucci - 09-27-2019 01:18 PM
Here, we're talking about simulator lag, which effects everyone. This is as opposed to viewer lag, which only effects one person.
Think of a period of time. Divide it into three parts.
1) Communications. Sending object information, textures, etc.
2) Scripts. Scanning for event handlers and the execution of any found.
3) Physics. Checking for interaction between physical objects, gravity, etc.
If there is too much to do in one of these parts, the remainder waits until the next time period. This effect is sometimes called "Time Dilation." It simply means there is more work to be done in a given time period than will fit into that time period. So time "slows down," letting things from this period wait until the next. A little every now-and-then is normal and is usually not noticable. When it becomes noticable, we lump it under the general term "lag".
---
Part 1
Lag in part 1 can come from having a lot of textures, large textures, and a lot of avatars, on the region or near the edge of any of the four regions touching it. Every avatar arriving needs to be told about all the objects and obtain their textures. Moving objects (not rotating signs or poofers, but things like avatars and cats walking about) need to send updates to every avatar.
One of the major sources of this type of lag is avatar-attached objects and their textures. You see a number allowing you to gage your complexity and (in many viewers) can choose to not have the objects and texture information sent for avatars over a chosen limit. This can help both you and everyone else (since they don't have to wait for the simulator to send you the textures for a complex avatar), but it won't fully solve the issue.
One thing with will also help is to divide an area up into separate, closed sections. If the simulator can determine that there is no way (due to walls, floors, etc) for you to see a moving object, avatar, etc, it won't send you the information and textures for them. This is why things can seem so much better if you go high up into the sky: there's just less to send you. Shopping malls can be designed with this in mind, but it means customers won't be able to see from one store to another, and can make it feel closed and claustrophobic; so you rarely see it implemented.
Another thing which estate owners can do (but not managers, or mere mortals like us) is to break things up. Avatars on the four neighboring regions need to get information about objects and textures from this one. Moving the regions apart can greatly reduce the lag during this first phase. But, of course, it means you can't walk or fly from one area to the other and must teleport. So estate owners can be hesitant. Plus, it's a hassle to get Linden Labs to move things around and they can get a bit snarky if you ask too much.
Object designers can help with combating network communications lag by using fewer textures and smaller textures. Unfortunately, this can mean less visually appealing obects. But, to be honest, most object designers don't really know about this and simply go for the largest (hence slowest) textures on the assumption that more is better. Nobody really needs a 1024x1024 texture on a nano-prim (which will rarely be more than a pixel or two on the screen) but you see it.
Similarly, mesh designers can use simpler models (and textures) for when you're further away from their objects, only using the larger (and more laggy) models and textures when you're really close. But few do. You already have to make and texture one model; who really wants to do it all over again two or three more times?
---
Part 2
Every time something happens (say, you touch an object, or someone says something), there is a possibility for every object to have a script which wants to know. The similator does not need to check EVERY object, however, only those which have scripts listening. There are also some optimizations the simulator can perform to reduce the "search space". For example, a whisper message only goes a little way and, so, the simulator can pare the list down to only those objects which are close enough and also listening for events.
So, it takes a bit of time to figure out who all needs to know about something. This is roughly linear on the number of objects (prims).
Then, of course, all those scripts must actaully be run. Well designed scripts are usually over-and-done very quickly. Not all scripts are well-designed. And, occassionally, there is no choice but to spend a lot of time on some calculation.
Scripts run in a series. One runs, then the next. This proceeds until all of them are done, or the (one-third) time period expires. When it expires, the currently executing script is allowed to finish. But all others need to wait until the next time slice. The scripts handing events from that next slice will need to wait until the hold-overs from this one all complete.
For most area managers, this is the only thing they can really manage. There are tools to locate objects whose scripts are using more than their fair share of time. And kicking those objects out can have a notiable effect.
But this mainls applies to poorly-written scripts. KittyCatS, actually, are fairly well written and, while, sure, they do contribute to script lag, it is rare to a cat to actually be the source of lag. Even regions with huge numbers of cats rarely experience script-lag from the cats. (This has been repeatedly tested.)
---
Part 3
The final part of each time slice is the physics simulation. This handles things like bouncing balls. Ineria, resistence slowing, or thrust accelerating, objects. For most regions the only physics of this sort is avatar movement. The biggie, though, is "collision detection" ... that is, when one physical object comes into contact with another. This can impart motion to an object (starting a ball to roll or bounce). Or it can stop movement (such as when you walk into a wall). All this takes time. Some of the calculations are pretty complex. And, while it can ignore non-physical (or phantom) objects, there are still a lot of objects which bump into each other.
To make it worse these colllisions can trigger scripted event. So a door which opens when you bump into it can add to both physics lag (detecting you bumpped into it) and script lag (doing whatever needs doing because you bumped into it), which can lead to network lag (as the door moves and that movement must be communicated to every avatar on the region and each of its neighbors).
Luckily, KittyCatS are not physical (and totally avoid this one-third time slice) when they're not moving. So they only contribute to physics-lag when they're walking about (sit/stand tail-wagging don't count). And we owners can control that simply by disabling the cat's ability to walk around.
This is also one area where mesh object designers can help by doing yet another model: the physic model. And, in fact, many do. But all to often that model is far more complex than it really needs to be. Take a house. All you really care about is that avatars can't walk through the wall (two triangles can handle that) but if you just use your visual model (or let the viewer try to puzzle it out when uploading your models) you're using a lot more triangles trying to bump around the window sills, door frames, chair rails, crown moulding, etc.
RE: Looking for Land Rentals that Allow Breedables - Saxoni Fenstalker - 09-28-2019 03:43 AM
(09-27-2019 01:18 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: Here, we're talking about simulator lag, which effects everyone. This is as opposed to viewer lag, which only effects one person.
Think of a period of time. Divide it into three parts.
1) Communications. Sending object information, textures, etc.
2) Scripts. Scanning for event handlers and the execution of any found.
3) Physics. Checking for interaction between physical objects, gravity, etc.
If there is too much to do in one of these parts, the remainder waits until the next time period. This effect is sometimes called "Time Dilation." It simply means there is more work to be done in a given time period than will fit into that time period. So time "slows down," letting things from this period wait until the next. A little every now-and-then is normal and is usually not noticable. When it becomes noticable, we lump it under the general term "lag".
---
Part 2
Then, of course, all those scripts must actaully be run. Well designed scripts are usually over-and-done very quickly. Not all scripts are well-designed. And, occassionally, there is no choice but to spend a lot of time on some calculation.
Tad, Thank you so much for this information. You've broken it down in a way that makes it very understandable. So, how do you tell whether a script has been well-designed or well written? Is it something that someone with little scripting or computer knowledge (like me) can do? Or are there tools I could get that would help? Thanks again for your help.