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+--- Thread: breeding out dominant trait (/showthread.php?tid=28497)
breeding out dominant trait - Sylvia Wasp - 02-23-2017 06:34 PM
hello,
I've been breeding my KittyCats for a while now trying to get rid of a trait that I find really ugly, which is the glowing "blacklight" eyes.
All the offspring so far (various breeding combinations from four original KittyCats), still have this trait, so I'm assuming it's "dominant" in the typical sense of mendelian genetics, because ... well that makes sense.
It's been many generations now and I'm starting to have my doubts about whether KittyCats even follow normal, basic genetic rules like this however.
Only ONE of the four original cats had "blacklight" eyes. TWO were basic genesis cats with regular blue or brown eyes and the fourth had "peach" coloured eyes. I've bred the cats together in as many combinations as time would allow (before their breeding capability petered out), and then bred their offspring together in the same way, eventually giving me 8 offspring from the 4 original KittyCats.
All EIGHT offspring have "blacklight" eyes even though only ONE of the original KittyCats had them.
What the heck is going on?
This would seem to defy all the odds as well as mathematics and genetics.
Any help is appreciated,
Sylvia
RE: breeding out dominant trait - Ivy Norsk - 02-23-2017 08:06 PM
Blacklight is indeed a rather dominant eye.
See the chart:Saga Eye chart
You don't say what the other eyes are, but if they are all recessive to blacklight it is absolutely and completely reasonable that blacklight would cover all of the other eyes 100% of the time.
RE: breeding out dominant trait - Sylvia Wasp - 02-23-2017 11:03 PM
(02-23-2017 08:06 PM)Ivy Norsk Wrote: Blacklight is indeed a rather dominant eye.
See the chart:Saga Eye chart
You don't say what the other eyes are, but if they are all recessive to blacklight it is absolutely and completely reasonable that blacklight would cover all of the other eyes 100% of the time.
I did say the other eyes are blue brown or "peach bellini." So there *are* dominant and recessive traits then?
what I'm after is just if it's possible for the regular coloured eyes to come up once in a while if I keep breeding. I don't mind the expense and the time, I just want to know that eventually it is possible to get a cat with normal looking eyes.
RE: breeding out dominant trait - Kayla Woodrunner - 02-23-2017 11:17 PM
yes there are dominant traits.
each cat has two per trait -- ie, two furs: one shown and one hidden -- and the most dominant will show
two eyes, two tails, etc
it is possible for the shown and hidden trait to be the same -- for example with your blacklight
your cat could have blacklight shown and blacklight hid which means it will always pass blacklight to it's baby
your cat could have blacklight shown and peach bell hid so it can pass either one. If it passes peach bellini but the partnered cat passes blacklight, blacklight will show over the peach bellini
when you pair two cats, each cat will throw one of the two that they have
so the baby gets one each from mom and dad
on the baby, the most dominant will show
so mom has 2 (eyes)
dad hs 2 (eyes)
mom gives 1 eye
dad gives 1 eye
baby gets 2 eyes, most dominant eye shows
there's been a lot of work discovering dominance. Here are a couple dominance sources
Saga puts fur, eyes and traits on different spreadsheets
Forum-based puts fur, eyes and traits on the same spreadsheet but different tabs
Forum-based
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10-9WtItK0LWyUSZqnI_6sGngJXtgVsSaSYJd2GN3qqw/edit#gid=696392737
Saga
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B0_Wqb33nVpnZWYwNGViMGMtYWU4ZS00ZjAyLTk4OTctMzk2YzljODliMDhm
I made a lot of mistakes in the beginning and made a case study of one of them. Might be helpful for you.
https://kittycats.ws/forum/showthread.php?tid=20252
peach bellini is recessive to blacklight so you might have it hid -- depends on what else your cats might have hid
to say blue or brown eyes is difficult because there are a lot of blue eyes and a number of brown eyes. So saying the color of an eye is not meaningful because it can be a bunch of different ones all with different dominance ratings. It is best to give the name of the trait as you did with Blacklight and Peach Bellini.
if you want to understand what happened to your own cats specifically, paste an image of their pedigree with grandparents, mom, dad and box. Someone will pop on and explain who passed what and if you are likely to have something hid. Start with one pedigree graphic (don't post a bunch at once as people's eyes get crossed).
people here are helpful but responses may be short and concise. if someone's answer confuses, if you can, please pinpoint the confusion. for example, the previous answer to your question didn't address the blue or brown eyes since you didn't name them so they didn't know how they rated in dominance compared to Blacklight. Since you probably don't know there are over 100 eye colors, it probably confused you since it sounds like you didn't think there are many blues or browns. There are even odyssey eyes which mix one blue and one brown eye.
i tend to talk too long which irritates some but helps others. so you'll get a variety of help here. Some short/concise and some long/verbose. say thank you and learn from whatever style works for you.
here is an example of a pedigree graphic that would help people to analyze for you
![[Image: 7d3d73997f7673e1ed9715f0eafe510a.png]](https://gyazo.com/7d3d73997f7673e1ed9715f0eafe510a.png)
it has grandparents, mom, dad and baby
so looking at the mom's parents Maxie & Lobo
using either the Forum based charts or Saga (google spreadsheets allow you to do a find search which is helpful as there are so many eyes)
Maxie shows Tapestry Organica
Lobo shows Royal Sapphire
Question: Which is most dominant Royal Sapphire or Tapestry Organica?
if you use one of the spreadsheets and (command F) for either eye, you should find the answer in a couple minutes
then do the same for Blacklight, Peach Bellini and the other eyes you are working with. Keep in mind anything more dominant than the shown fur/eye/tail/ears/whiskers, whatever will be lost as most dominant will always show. Since you already understand genetics, you should be able to pick things up quickly now that you have the dominance charts
RE: breeding out dominant trait - Oselkhandro Resident - 02-25-2017 01:43 AM
I have had the same issue with dominant eyes. The answer seems to be back breeding, and using two offspring to breed. They will both carry the recessive gene, and about 25% of your next generation will get a non-Blacklight eye. Then you are good to go.
RE: breeding out dominant trait - Chiserae Resident - 06-12-2017 08:03 AM
(02-23-2017 06:34 PM)Sylvia Wasp Wrote: hello,
I've been breeding my KittyCats for a while now trying to get rid of a trait that I find really ugly, which is the glowing "blacklight" eyes.
All the offspring so far (various breeding combinations from four original KittyCats), still have this trait, so I'm assuming it's "dominant" in the typical sense of mendelian genetics, because ... well that makes sense.
It's been many generations now and I'm starting to have my doubts about whether KittyCats even follow normal, basic genetic rules like this however.
Only ONE of the four original cats had "blacklight" eyes. TWO were basic genesis cats with regular blue or brown eyes and the fourth had "peach" coloured eyes. I've bred the cats together in as many combinations as time would allow (before their breeding capability petered out), and then bred their offspring together in the same way, eventually giving me 8 offspring from the 4 original KittyCats.
All EIGHT offspring have "blacklight" eyes even though only ONE of the original KittyCats had them.
What the heck is going on?
This would seem to defy all the odds as well as mathematics and genetics.
Any help is appreciated,
Sylvia
Gimme the Blacklights, I love those purple eyes! I think they look great on any cat with a silver toned fur.
Chiara Fae.
RE: breeding out dominant trait - Alassariah Resident - 06-12-2017 11:32 PM
You could try pairing with Odyssey Bellini. That recessive eye does not seem to care too much what it comes against. A few generations later and I started getting sick every time I saw it.
Please do not get me wrong, it is a pretty eye!