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+--- Thread: Technical Breeding Tips and Advice (/showthread.php?tid=5162)
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Tad Carlucci - 09-15-2012 10:06 PM
It's too bad that Saga didn't capture the date-of-discovery which each trait. She might be able to recover some, or all of it, and add it to her charts. But, at this point, it will probably require a bit of archeology.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Sara Franco - 09-15-2012 10:17 PM
(09-15-2012 10:06 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: It's too bad that Saga didn't capture the date-of-discovery which each trait. She might be able to recover some, or all of it, and add it to her charts. But, at this point, it will probably require a bit of archeology.
It would be too hard with the dates I think, but if the list is like:
Chateau Tawny & White -> Easter 2012
Foxie Auburn -> Collabor88 2012
...etc
Would be a great help and easier to do.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Bea Shamrock - 09-16-2012 01:51 AM
(09-15-2012 11:41 AM)Saga Felix Wrote: Looked up the Punnett Squares that Bea mentioned here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punnett_square
-And I've ofc used them all along, just didn't know there was this name for them
I highly recommend them, btw. THE great way to visualize Mendelian Inheritance.
-Saga
Thanks Saga and Tad for following up on punnett squares.
I actually learned about them from your Mendelian Inheritance plance, Saga
I was trying to put together another example that used kitties hiding a different fur from the one they showed and looked up Mendel and Mendelian on Youtube and found some cool explanations to analyse family trees and of Mendel's early experiments. I'm attaching the one I made (generation 3 wouldn't fit and is supposed to be all punnett squares; I hope to finish it soon). i'm not a graphics designer, obviously, but I tried to unclutter the first few versions I made. I hope it helps to further visualise what Tad explained so clearly.
[attachment=673]
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Tad Carlucci - 09-16-2012 02:26 AM
That's a good graphic. The top half shows one way to think if it, by following the lines. The bottom half shows the chart. Either works.
I can never remember the name Geneticists use for it because I'm a mathematician and an information scientists .. to us, that chart is a very simple case of a much larger one we call by a different name. I won't bother you with it because if you look it up it'll probably give you a headache
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - anna Acanthus - 09-16-2012 06:24 AM
Good thing i work out my own (be it somewhat complex for others) mental models as i pick things up.
I have this weird mind that just cannot get around the most simplest ones created by others, and it would have totally stumped me if i'd have had to learn this way to begin with.
Having said, it's obviously the best model around and one which most will be able to catch onto pretty fast i think.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Devilness Chant - 09-16-2012 01:44 PM
These are really great tips and even I can understand the chart. And it would be great to have a chart that shows when starters came out and such. *hint hint
But for those of us who don't have the head to wrap around breeding charts, other than Sagas. Or the time, or whatever. Back in the day before the pedigrees I tried to make charts of my kitties and just couldn't stick with it. They are wonderful and great for those who have the patience to make them. (I burnt offerings of thx to the kitty staff for the pedigrees)
I just want to tell new ppl that don't want to make personal breeding charts like these it's ok. You can still make great kitties without them. They're wonderful, please don't get me wrong, they're just not for everyone.
I personally just look at pedigrees. I have anywhere from 64 to 74 kitties at a time. So mine isn't a big cattery. When I buy kitties I've noticed ppl use abbreviations of traits for some kitties names. That's a really great way to see what is farther back and what they're breeding plan may have been.
I go by the parents and grandparents of unknown and my own kitties. They pretty much sum it all up. You can get a lot out of a pedigree. If you're unsure where the traits fall, check Sagas chart to get an idea. And remember a dom trait can't hide behind a recessive trait. (which was the hardest thing for me to sink in)
One trick I use, which makes for some of the dumbest names but works for me. I'll name an os after the parent that shows or hides the traits I want to remember. Or name the kitty with the trait I'm working on, like Fussyness for fussy tail, and Uncle Fuster. With starter os I use the initial of the starter and sometimes the initial of the partner the name.
Once you get the dom and rec traits pretty much down, and figure out a breeding plan to make the kitty you want. You'll figure out what works best for you.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Kayleigh McMillan - 09-16-2012 01:55 PM
(09-16-2012 01:44 PM)devilness chant Wrote: ... One trick I use, which makes for some of the dumbest names but works for me. I'll name an os after the parent that shows or hides the traits I want to remember. Or name the kitty with the trait I'm working on, like Fussyness for fussy tail, and Uncle Fuster. With starter os I use the initial of the starter and sometimes the initial of the partner the name.
...
Só recognisable LOL
My kitties often have a first and last name
Just to avoid I have one of those brainless moments in which I think I have this outdated project because I think I own "better" already and bring the wrong pair with this fantastic hidden to the menagerie.
Especially so when we don't see the hidden we are after directly visable in the parents but we know it is there.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Devilness Chant - 09-16-2012 02:15 PM
(09-16-2012 01:55 PM)Kayleigh McMillan Wrote:(09-16-2012 01:44 PM)devilness chant Wrote: ... One trick I use, which makes for some of the dumbest names but works for me. I'll name an os after the parent that shows or hides the traits I want to remember. Or name the kitty with the trait I'm working on, like Fussyness for fussy tail, and Uncle Fuster. With starter os I use the initial of the starter and sometimes the initial of the partner the name.
...
Só recognisable LOL
My kitties often have a first and last name
Just to avoid I have one of those brainless moments in which I think I have this outdated project because I think I own "better" already and bring the wrong pair with this fantastic hidden to the menagerie.
Especially so when we don't see the hidden we are after directly visable in the parents but we know it is there.
I once sent an Aby Black Silver off to the kitty park in the sky when they were still rare. I learned the hard way. I named the next one after him...Don't Kill Me.
But I try to keep the names a little short because I use the hud and when the names are too long I can't see the sex when partnering. Then I think I'm done and realize I'm not cause half the ones I tried to partner are same sex.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Tad Carlucci - 09-16-2012 04:08 PM
The Pedigree View page is usually all you need.
If you're out shopping and unsure as to the veracity of a claim in the Pedigree, or what that single Pedigree is telling you about the box you're interested in .. LOOK AROUND.
Breeders often have close relatives out nearby. Jump to their other shops (many have them), the relatives might be there. And use your judgement. Look at similar offerings at the shop. If the price looks out of line, the breeder probably knows something you can't see .. like that Lynx gene you're looking for actually isn't there, but you can't see that from that single Pedigree ... or, more likely, they're pretty darned sure it IS there!
It helps to know the breeder, too. There are several that, when Charm's unsure, we simply TRUST. Either because we've dealt with them before or because we know their reputation from in-world chat, or .. YEP! .. these forums!
I'll add an example. Grandma says she's a Lynx offspring. If she is, both Dad and the box you're looking at definitely carry Lynx. But how to know? Well, across the shop you find Dad's half-brother for sale .. and HIS pedigree shows both Grandma and both HER parents who .. sure enough .. prove that Grandma has it, and so must that box you started looking at.
RE: Breeders Tips Tricks and Advice - Devilness Chant - 09-16-2012 05:13 PM
(09-16-2012 04:08 PM)Tad Carlucci Wrote: The Pedigree View page is usually all you need.
If you're out shopping and unsure as to the veracity of a claim in the Pedigree, or what that single Pedigree is telling you about the box you're interested in .. LOOK AROUND.
Breeders often have close relatives out nearby. Jump to their other shops (many have them), the relatives might be there. And use your judgement. Look at similar offerings at the shop. If the price looks out of line, the breeder probably knows something you can't see .. like that Lynx gene you're looking for actually isn't there, but you can't see that from that single Pedigree ... or, more likely, they're pretty darned sure it IS there!
It helps to know the breeder, too. There are several that, when Charm's unsure, we simply TRUST. Either because we've dealt with them before or because we know their reputation from in-world chat, or .. YEP! .. these forums!
I'll add an example. Grandma says she's a Lynx offspring. If she is, both Dad and the box you're looking at definitely carry Lynx. But how to know? Well, across the shop you find Dad's half-brother for sale .. and HIS pedigree shows both Grandma and both HER parents who .. sure enough .. prove that Grandma has it, and so must that box you started looking at.
Good points, I never think of not trusting because I know of a lot of the breeders I buy from. But when push comes to shove I usually go with the parents then the grandparents traits in the pedigree anyway. And when there's no pedigree handy I go with the parents. If I don't see what they're saying the kitty has i move on and look elsewhere.
But that's why I said to check Sagas Chart when out shopping if you're unsure of traits, and to always remember that dom can't hide behind recessive.
If you can't find proof of something, but really want that kitty, you can try iming the seller.